Know Your 'Rafale'

[StealthFlanker]

Continues from my post on page http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/threads/know-your-rafale.32861/page-236

. The problem was that Americans claimed (chamchas too) that stealth was magical and these off-board data fusions completely leveled the field and forced the once 'untouchable' assets to fight the fight as equals (in case of F-22). In case of a lesser aircraft like F-35 the Americans ended up doing a favour for the rest of the world. Choice of F-35 falls in the same bracket as Kumbhkaran asking for the boon that he ended up asking for. Some people can also term it as a strategic miss-calculation. But characterization apart it is already a fact (prarabdh karm) and soon to be unavoidable sanchit karma. I repeat I don't mind it.

So basically you need a bunch of AWACs , ground VHF radar , various aircraft working together , just so that the Rafale can level the playing field with the F-35 , but some how the F-35 is a lesser aircraft ? , and why somehow the Rafale side is the only side that allowed to use tactic ? what if F-35 also linked with a sam battery and the only thing it has to do is transmit location of the enemy back to the SAM command center ? , what if the F-35 loft a bunch of JSM , JSOW-ER at your VHF radar ?

- This has nothing to do with fairness in a French vs. Americans fight. MALD-J cannot because the aperture will never support the expectations you put on it. Its like asking Jaya Bhadhuri to speak like Amitabh Bachchan or a Pomeranian to bark like a bigger dog. The X band and Ka band apertures are much much more precision engineering but very very limited in applications while VHF has been around since ages. The L-Bands and S-Bands are are somewhere in between. But they all simply require different antenna types.

Firstly you dont need massive antenna to transmit low frequency wave , the antenna in your phone can transmit GPS signal which are extremely low frequency
, you only need massive antenna if you want your beam to still be directional when you transmit low-frequency wave , this is important for radar because they need the resolution cell to be small , a jammer most of the time doesnt care about the size of their beam ( of course the wider the beam , the weaker the energy concentration would be , but as explained earlier , RCS reduction is directly proportional to jamming power required , so compare to a loaded Rafale , and F-35 would only need 0.01% the jamming power to get the same effect
Secondly , you would be surprised how wide the band width of certain kind of antenna are : for example horn antenna and log-periodic dipole array have extremely wide frequency operating range

Spectra has the benefit of not trying to go long range and power input needs are very big reason why radars end up big while long range jamming works out small. Very short range jamming will end up in smaller formfactors

.

You deeply mistaken how jamming work , jamming at shorter distance to radar is not easier , the closer you get to the radar , the harder it would be to jam it , since the reflection get stronger exponentially

Spectra also has the benefit of the whole fuselage of Rafale being available to it (compared to restricted body of MALD-J) and they can put any number and type of antenna arrays to get the job done.

In theory , Rafale have load of location for transmitter , in reality , very small surface of it is actually used for transmitter ,it only has a few small antenna on the vertical tail , at the intake and on the wing edge but not actually more than the surface area of MALD-J

In fact MALD-J is the tactical admission that VHF are too good against F-35. The size of MALD-J with length of just under 3 meters, indicates that these MALD-J are expected to give a big return in the 1.7 to 2 meter wavelength which are said to be popular with Russian VHF Radar designers.

If that was the case they would have stopped with ITAD and MALD , no need for MALD-J

And the expectation is true from a STAND-IN jammer which is atuned to look very much like the main F-35. But this is a small hump to cross. All the VHF radar needs to do is to cross check against IRST database already made available by Rafale/PAKFA. The MALD-J simply cannot have the EO/IR signature of an F-35. The problem actually does not even arise in the first place. Because both IRST and Radars work in lock steps.

the question is , can your SAM EO sensor detect and track F-35 before it detect and target and attack you with a bunch of JSM and JSOW-ER ?

The MBTFs were designed accordingly to be very low compared to gound based radars, so they could maximise the main requirement of effective hunting. But the main task of hunting requires the hunter to be fit and fast

If kinematic ( speed - altitude ) was the main concern then why even bothered with the slow Rafale ? why not use F-15C instead ? why not Mig-25 ? why not Mig-31 ?

(which F-35 is not, considering the fact it is a Strike aircraft being palmed off as a Fighter aircraft)

it is a multi role fighter , just like every single fighter now a day

And why are you focussed ondBsM. How would you like it if the aircraft you are on (developed after spending huge monies) has low radar return but has big IR signature. What would you say to the gods - hey bhagwan please mujh ko hamesha badalon sey dhak kar rakh na taki mera IR return kabhi bhi dikhe na. Is that kind of persistent cloud cover even possible in real life.

As explained earlier , thrust is not proportional to infrared signature
Secondly , most of the time , you cant see the nozzle or the fumes from front aspect , what you see is the aircraft body , in which case , the temperature is proportional to speed , going faster will generate more heat and you will be detected sooner , especially if you gonna fly supersonic , the heat generated will be enoumous

- Agreed or alternatively you could station completely inexpensive VHF arrays right at the borders linked by Ka-Band datalinks or Fiber optics and still enjoy the same range as the higher powered pulses. Also the accuracy can be improved as shown earlier.

There are always gives and takes but if the relay gets established for reasonable costs, then I don't think I as a defender will have to worry.

REPRESENTATIVE VHF ARRAYS FOR RECEIVING POSTS
http://www.ausairpower.net/PLA/YLC-4-Search-Radar-1S.jpg
http://www.ausairpower.net/PLA/JY-27-Radar-3S.jpg

Would you feel confident that an antenna like this is even worth the throwing an SDB or HARM or JDAM at and also may be endangering the F-35 itself.

Linking up these disparate sets is not a problem for Putin so long as he is within his own country or his Near Abroad. Secure, low latency, high bandwidth networks to interlink exceedingly large number of these apertures are not difficult to make.

There is nothing stop F-35 from throwing a bunch of SPEAR , SDB or JSM at these radar( receiver node ) , once you put a dedicated datalink and EO system on them they are not gonna be cheap , and they can be seen on satellite as well , you would need thousands them , in fact even more for a big country like Russia

Re. "Here is a RAM pattern from LM https://www.google.com/patents/US20100271253#v=onepage&q&f=false"

- Here is a real study of these materials which is basically readily available to everybody including Russians, French, Chinese and Indians - http://www.ijirset.com/upload/2013/december/46_Review.pdf. And most of these countries are not even harping on these things. Only people like Gen. Mike Hostage and some of the F-35 fans in third world countries would even take note of these things.

so what are you trying to prove here by posting a study about EM shielding ( basically measuring absorption of CNT at frequency from 8 Ghz to 12 Ghz )???

And what exactly make your link a "real study"? what make you think the LM pattern is not" real "?
Do you seriously think as long as the studies have the words CNT ( carbon nato tube ) , then the RAM are exactly the same ? and what make you think Russia and china dont use that kind of RAM for their new J-20 and PAK-FA ????

- To quote a few relevant sections from the Patent Document:
So the difference between the upper and lower bounds of the loadings (by weights) is 60000:1. Should the F-35 try to be stealthy to everything from Ka band seekers to OTH radars from all aspect then it must be ready to get 60% higher in empty weight compared to an LCA type CFC skin (what that does to fuel weights, payload sacrifice, engine weights and plumes can be guessed

Nice try , but they say CNT loading , aka the percentage of CNT in the RAM , not weight
you can deceive fanboy like BON FAN but not someone like me with that cheap trick
the maximum thickness of the CNT is merely 250 micron

For radar absorbing applications, the CNTs can vary in length from between about 5 to about 250 microns.

Moreover the material was supposed to have absorbing characteristic between 0.1-60 Ghz , but for F-35 application then obviously absorbtion from 0.5 to 12 Ghz is more than enough

.

Now how much difficult it is to push through the air an F-35 that is merely 11% over the stock version (F-35B) or 20% over (for F-35C). To understand that please refer the following:

Nice try , some amateur will obviously look at that and say OMG , the F-35 can only sustained 4-5 G what a pig , but people actually know anything about aerodynamic will pay attention to the altitude and speed of that sustained G value
Take for example , in similar condition the F-16 can barely sustained 4.5G

Further consider the need for Stand-In jamming by MALD-J. The MALD-J is made in that form factor because it is expected to stand in for the F-35 and give almost the same signature even in the VHF band.

No , MALD-J is that size because it come from MALD , and MALD was designed to have that size because it needed to fit the same 14 inch slug as the MK-82

Further still its not like these materials, actually meant for shielding and not directly for RCS reduction (which is a spinoff), are not already actually used in the F-35. These have been talked about since ages which is why despite prodding by

And who to decide that these materials are mean to shielding and RAM is only for spin off ? what if it opposite ? and what make you think the structure of the carbon nano tube in 2 studies is exactly the same ? not to mentioned these other materials included in the RAM , remember it called a (CNT)-infused fiber material disposed in at least a portion of a matrix material, not just CNT alone

Also since these materials weighing upto 20% by weight have been used already so there really is very little room for putting these shielding materials on F-35 going forward.

what make you think the RAM F-35 is using now not already have similar characteristics ?( or what make you think it isnt already on F-35 ? , after all ,that pattern is from LM )

 

[BON PLAN]

LOL, unlike you, we are not on the forum because of Rafale, I am on the forum because its related to Indian military. So there is a big difference. That "smell" has been coming for years, but then its like a cake you can smell but you cannot eat. hahahaha keep counting

I can only smell for the moment my dear. The eating phase is comming....

 

[BON PLAN]

Continues from last post

So basically you need a bunch of AWACs , ground VHF radar , various aircraft working together , just so that the Rafale can level the playing field with the F-35 , but some how the F-35 is a lesser aircraft ? , and why somehow the Rafale side is the only side that allowed to use tactic ? what if F-35 also linked with a sam battery and the only thing it has to do is transmit location of the enemy back to the SAM command center ? , what if the F-35 loft a bunch of JSM , JSOW-ER at your VHF radar ?






Firstly you dont need massive antenna to transmit low frequency wave , the antenna in your phone can transmit GPS signal which are extremely low frequency
, you only need massive antenna if you want your beam to still be directional when you transmit low-frequency wave , this is important for radar because they need the resolution cell to be small , a jammer most of the time doesnt care about the size of their beam ( of course the wider the beam , the weaker the energy concentration would be , but as explained earlier , RCS reduction is directly proportional to jamming power required , so compare to a loaded Rafale , and F-35 would only need 0.01% the jamming power to get the same effect
Secondly , you would be surprised how wide the band width of certain kind of antenna are : for example horn antenna and log-periodic dipole array have extremely wide frequency operating range


You deeply mistaken how jamming work , jamming at shorter distance to radar is not easier , the closer you get to the radar , the harder it would be to jam it , since the reflection get stronger exponentially


In theory , Rafale have load of location for transmitter , in reality , very small surface of it is actually used for transmitter ,it only has a few small antenna on the vertical tail , at the intake and on the wing edge but not actually more than the surface area of MALD-J



If that was the case they would have stopped with ITAD and MALD , no need for MALD-J


the question is , can your SAM EO sensor detect and track F-35 before it detect and target and attack you with a bunch of JSM and JSOW-ER ?









If kinematic ( speed - altitude ) was the main concern then why even bothered with the slow Rafale ? why not use F-15C instead ? why not Mig-25 ? why not Mig-31 ?


it is a multi role fighter , just like every single fighter now a day




As explained earlier , thrust is not proportional to infrared signature
Secondly , most of the time , you cant see the nozzle or the fumes from front aspect , what you see is the aircraft body , in which case , the temperature is proportional to speed , going faster will generate more heat and you will be detected sooner , especially if you gonna fly supersonic , the heat generated will be enoumous

There is nothing stop F-35 from throwing a bunch of SPEAR , SDB or JSM at these radar( receiver node ) , once you put a dedicated datalink and EO system on them they are not gonna be cheap , and they can be seen on satellite as well , you would need thousands them , in fact even more for a big country like Russia



so what are you trying to prove here by posting a study about EM shielding ( basically measuring absorption of CNT at frequency from 8 Ghz to 12 Ghz )???
Do you seriously think as long as the studies have the words CNT ( carbon nato tube ) , then the RAM are exactly the same ? and what make you think Russia and china dont use that kind of RAM for their new J-20 and PAK-FA ????



Nice try , but they say CNT loading , aka the percentage of CNT in the RAM , not weight
you can deceive fanboy like BON FAN but not someone like me with that cheap trick
the maximum thickness of the CNT is merely 250 micron

Moreover the material was supposed to have absorbing characteristic between 0.1-60 Ghz , but for F-35 application then obviously absorbtion from 0.5 to 12 Ghz is more than enough

.
Nice try , some amateur will obviously look at that and say OMG , the F-35 can only sustained 4-5 G what a pig , but people actually know anything about aerodynamic will pay attention to the altitude and speed of that sustained G value



No , MALD-J is that size because it come from MALD , and MALD was designed to have that size because it needed to fit the same 14 inch slug as the MK-82



And who to decide that these materials are mean to shielding and RAM is only for spin off ? what if it opposite ? and what make you think the structure of the carbon nano tube in 2 studies is exactly the same ? not to mentioned these other materials included in the RAM , remember it called a (CNT)-infused fiber material disposed in at least a portion of a matrix material, not just CNT alone


what make you think the RAM F-35 is using now not already have similar characteristics ?( or what make you think it isnt already on F-35 ? , after all ,that pattern is from LM )

Mister is coming back .......

 

[StealthFlanker]

Mister is coming back .......

i already posted on page 236, you only realize now? .............

 

[smestarz]

Rafale deal does not really have backing of the PM. It was at a moment in France that he asked about 36 planes but after that PM has not even said Rafale again, Rather he has kept away from the topic in its entirety,
Further there are Law Ministry and Subbu Swami to deal with next ..

Rafale deal has the backing of PM so it will not be cancelled and as for scorpene sub, I have posted my view on the thread there, and we will most likely upgrade them. Plus the Australian has been ordered by court to give paper to DCNS.

 

[Bahamut]

Rafale deal does not really have backing of the PM. It was at a moment in France that he asked about 36 planes but after that PM has not even said Rafale again, Rather he has kept away from the topic in its entirety,
Further there are Law Ministry and Subbu Swami to deal with next ..

PM has given words for 36 jet so it will be bought. As for Swami he is a person other independent thinking but still he lack support, more Rafale will be brought,, but not in the no. We will have 2 fighter to replace Mig 23, 23,mig 29 and M2k, one is Rafale other one is to be decided. My money is on Mig35

 

[smestarz]

PM has announced a lot of projects in India and many of them have not started, Where is the PM on his word for that? Or the promises given to Indians dont count. It is the people in India he is answerable to, and not to Hollande. Swami does not need support, he is the one who on his own brought down ABV govt. so try not to discount SS yet,, Further the law ministry has not yet given the clearance, Fuirther the investigation of Weapons dealer Bhandari is ongoing.

Further, PM wanted these for immediate requirement, already more than a year has passed..Is the PM talking about his "word" .. Also does the PM have anything to say about the Scorpene secrets lying in the open? Its France too, in that. Remember this is G2G deal,

PM has given words for 36 jet so it will be bought. As for Swami he is a person other independent thinking but still he lack support, more Rafale will be brought,, but not in the no. We will have 2 fighter to replace Mig 23, 23,mig 29 and M2k, one is Rafale other one is to be decided. My money is on Mig35

 

[smestarz]

Those are two different companies DCNS (Scorpene) and Dassault (rafale) even Modi cannot give this reason to cancel the deal. It was Modi who was coerced by Doval to go for 36 Rafales that casued this jam in the first place. After that Modi is not saying a single word about Rafale

Now, we need to wait for Modi to cancel the deal. He has a good reason Scorpene data leak or bargain further to get some critical TOT. Hope, Modi does the best for the nation.

 

[Arjun25]

Rafale Deal Files Sent To PM's Office For Final Review & Clearance

 

[smestarz]

Raha also said maintenance and rehaul facilities of aircraft and its engines is still in infancy in India and it needs to grow. He said the private sector should get into it.
NAK Browne was on record saying that the Base Repair Depots of IAF are competent enough to assemble planes like Rafale.. so.. the guy who comes after this when he comments such a way shows how stupid NAK BROWNE was .. Thank you Mr. Raha

Also Raha is chasing for purchase of Rafale..

Will induct indigenous HTT 40 planes in large numbers: IAF chief

Indian Air Force will induct indigenous HTT 40 basic trainers in “large numbers”, which will boost the domestic capability although it was earlier keen for a Swiss aircraft.

The country was looking at having a fighter aircraft under ‘Make in India’ initiative which will be a “big ticket project”, IAF chief Air Chief Marshal Raha said at a seminar on Thursday.

Talking about the opportunities in the aviation sector, especially for domestic companies, he said, “IAF will induct HTT 40 basic trainers in large numbers soon”.

Defence sources said the IAF has committed to purchasing at least 70 of these aircraft.

The Hindustan Turbo Trainer-40 (HTT-40) had on May 31 made its maiden flight after much delay.

The aircraft, the prototype of which was rolled out in January, is aimed at being used for the first stage training of all flying cadets of the three services.

While the HTT-40 programme was almost junked during UPA rule, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar pursued both IAF and HAL to ensure development of the trainer.

IAF had blocked funding for the HTT-40 by telling the Defence Ministry that the aircraft would be “too expensive, heavy and that it will not meet their need”.

IAF had backed a Swiss trainer, the Pilatus PC-7 Mark II.

The Air Force had purchased 75 of Pilatus in 2012 under a controversial deal but the requirement was for over 106 more planes.

Parrikar had cut this down and cleared a plan to purchase another 38 of Pilatus aircraft. However, the contract is still stuck on pricing issues.

Raha also said maintenance and rehaul facilities of aircraft and its engines is still in infancy in India and it needs to grow. He said the private sector should get into it.

The IAF chief reminded those present at the seminar that there is a lot of opportunities because of the legacy of aircraft that the force operates.

http://indianexpress.com/article/in...40-planes-in-large-numbers-iaf-chief-3007990/

 

[Jagdish58]

It's something you perfectly know, as you already live in a psycho hospital

LOL mate guess you are quoting IDF has psycho hospital you are 100% right

This is DFI no place to jokers & psycho like you and your friends

 

[WolfPack86]

PM Narendra Modi meets French President Francois Hollande in Hangzhou
Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French PresidentFrancois Hollande met on Monday on the sidelines of theG20 summit here in Hangzhou.

This is the first meeting between the two leaders after Hollande visited India this year to attend the Republic Day parade as the chief guest.

Strengthening the Strategic Partnership with France. PM @narendramodi has a quick pull aside with President Hollande pic.twitter.com/4nVA1Uqzln
— Vikas Swarup (@MEAIndia) September 5, 2016
India-French relations received a boost in 2015 with high-level engagements and expansion of the already strong cooperation.

Prime Minister Modi paid a landmark visit to France from April 09-12, 2015.

The two leaders held a bilateral meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York in September 2015.
They again met in Paris on November 3, 2015 at the Leaders' Event of CoP-21 (21st Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) in Paris.

Hollande paid a three-day visit to India from 24-26 January this year where France committed to help develop three Indian cities- Chandigarh, Nagpur and Puducherry as smart cities.

Hollande visited the Rock Garden in Chandigarh city created by French architect Le Corbusier.

During Hollande's India visit, both the countries then signed an inter-governmental pact to buy 36 French-built Rafale fighters leaving the task to the negotiation committee to resolve financial issues.

Reports suggest that Ministry of Defence has cleared the negotiation committee's report and sent it for the approval of Cabinet Committee for Security (CCS).

If the deal is approved, the Indian Air Force can then acquire the French twin-engine aircraft built by the Dassault Aviation.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...cois-hollande-in-hangzhou-116090500195_1.html

 

[smestarz]

Interesting news that meeting Hollande implies that he talked about Rafale? Maybe he was talking to Hollande about Scorpene data leak " .... what the hell Hollande.. how can this happen "
Incidentally Scorpene data leak is more in the news.

Also he met Barack Obama and Theresa May .. so based on similar assumptions maybe Modi was talking about F/A-18, Aircraft Carrier tech, Aircraft engine tech, F-35, F-16 and also Eurofighter to UK?

During such summits, countries talk mostly about economic things and not defence and definitely they dont talk about Data Leaks

PM Narendra Modi meets French President Francois Hollande in Hangzhou
Prime Minister Narendra Modi and French PresidentFrancois Hollande met on Monday on the sidelines of theG20 summit here in Hangzhou.

This is the first meeting between the two leaders after Hollande visited India this year to attend the Republic Day parade as the chief guest.

Strengthening the Strategic Partnership with France. PM @narendramodi has a quick pull aside with President Hollande pic.twitter.com/4nVA1Uqzln
— Vikas Swarup (@MEAIndia) September 5, 2016
India-French relations received a boost in 2015 with high-level engagements and expansion of the already strong cooperation.

Prime Minister Modi paid a landmark visit to France from April 09-12, 2015.

The two leaders held a bilateral meeting on the sidelines of the United Nations General Assembly in New York in September 2015.
They again met in Paris on November 3, 2015 at the Leaders' Event of CoP-21 (21st Session of the Conference of the Parties to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change) in Paris.

Hollande paid a three-day visit to India from 24-26 January this year where France committed to help develop three Indian cities- Chandigarh, Nagpur and Puducherry as smart cities.

Hollande visited the Rock Garden in Chandigarh city created by French architect Le Corbusier.

During Hollande's India visit, both the countries then signed an inter-governmental pact to buy 36 French-built Rafale fighters leaving the task to the negotiation committee to resolve financial issues.

Reports suggest that Ministry of Defence has cleared the negotiation committee's report and sent it for the approval of Cabinet Committee for Security (CCS).

If the deal is approved, the Indian Air Force can then acquire the French twin-engine aircraft built by the Dassault Aviation.
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...cois-hollande-in-hangzhou-116090500195_1.html

 

[Big Pic]

http://www.defencetalk.com/indian-r...-68095/?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Indian Rafale Deal Closer to A Decision; Goes for Final Review


By Press Trust of India -
September 6, 2016

The multi-billion Euro deal for 36 Rafales moved a step closer to a decision as the file on the fighter jets has been sent to the Prime Minister’s Office for final review and clearance.

Defence sources said today the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale deal with France has been cleared by the Defence Ministry.

While officials remained tight-lipped about the state of the deal but a high-ranking source when asked by PTI if it has been moved for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security, said, “I would not say no”.

French sources have said they are expecting a positive development this month.

During his visit to France in April last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract.

Soon after the announcement, the defence ministry scrapped a separate process that was on to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defence giant Dassault Aviation.

The deal is expected to be worth around 7.89 billion Euros for the 36 fighter jets in fly away conditions.

The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new age beyond visual range missile Meteor and Israeli helmet mounted display.

The price of the deal was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including tough negotiation by India, the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.

It is not clear if the price has been brought down further but India was seeking more.

The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.

The commercial negotiations on the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues began in mid-January this year.

 

[BON PLAN]

Interesting news that meeting Hollande implies that he talked about Rafale? Maybe he was talking to Hollande about Scorpene data leak " .... what the hell Hollande.. how can this happen "
Incidentally Scorpene data leak is more in the news.

Also he met Barack Obama and Theresa May .. so based on similar assumptions maybe Modi was talking about F/A-18, Aircraft Carrier tech, Aircraft engine tech, F-35, F-16 and also Eurofighter to UK?

During such summits, countries talk mostly about economic things and not defence and definitely they dont talk about Data Leaks

Maybe the Indian PM ask Obama "Hey Barrack ! How chineese hackers can stole F35 and F22 datas? "

 

[BON PLAN]

Lol irony Charlie Chaplin of all Defence forum calls others joker

time to eat some French fry grandpa don't use lot of brain which you urself know have very little left of it

It's not because you have three hairs on the ass you have to take you to a bear, kid.

 

[BON PLAN]

Hello visitor, it does not make sense for a "visitor" like you on DFI to come and lecture a member here on DFI. You can keep your advice for your friends at forusm where your ideas are valued.
Unfortunately, no one here is interested in story of your life in particular. If you have something to post about the topic, then do so, if not, try not to come here once a month and then comment.

It would be good if you apply yourself this too.

 

[Jagdish58]

It's not because you have three hairs on the ass you have to take you to a bear, kid.

Lol nobody asked what you actually do with your hair mate , stay away from using slangs or this is not IDF to get away with special privilege if you are rafaletard

 

[smestarz]

We have been seeing such "news" for last half a decade, I remember Reuters quoting Eric Trapier that Deal would be signed in a week, and this was almost from 3 years ago till last year and then the deal was scrapped.

Also there was such news that India will sign the deal when hollande will visit India during our independence day., and 8 months have passed.

Sorry we do not see the point to jump up and down when newspapers claim such stories. Like I said if its not coming from named official source then its crap..

By the way, you are from quebec yes? I think you still beleive you want to be French? right?

BTW, when its named official source then its interesting, unnamed high official, condition of anonymity .. is little interesting , thats just gossip, that works on IDF where everyone is jumping like the lemurs of Madagascar when king julien says something. unfortunately on DFI there are mature folks who understand that only official word is good enough.. have a nice day

Indeed...Finally you realize what your doing here: talking to yourself with your friends in the front of a mirror about what you believe to be true. Pathetic...BTW, you have not read my news: the Rafale deal in near completion. Have a nice day.

 

[pmaitra]

I have been patiently watching this thread, and have left notes. I am very close to considering vacation time and this might affect 4 or 5 individuals in one clear sweep. One final time, keep the discussion cordial and productive.

Your participation presumes your prior understanding and acceptance of the forum rules.