Know Your 'Rafale'

smestarz

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Rafale fanboys on RDF said was to be in Auigust 2016
We ,might be havint same discussion in August 2018.. if Rafail is not scrapped by then

My pronostic : India ink the deal in the few weeks, with first funds sent by Q4.
 

Bahamut

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Thales Claims Unique Pod Features
by Chris Pocock
- November 4, 2015, 7:20 AM

A French air force Rafale carrying the AREOS reconnaissance pod on a centerline station.
funded by the French government since late 2012. It was unveiled in July 2014, and will be test-flown for the first time on a Rafale next year, with first deliveries following in 2018. The major subcontractors are Sofradir (infrared detectors) and Liebherr (cooling).

The TALIOS pod is the same shape as Damocles, and approximately the same weight, and can therefore be substituted easily. Thales (Stand 700, Chalet P4) won’t identify the export customers, but Qatar is acquiring Rafales, and Saudi Arabia might seek to replace the Damocles on its Tornado and Typhoon fleets.

UAV Alternative

AREOS (Airborne REcce Observation System) is the much bigger podded system carried on the centerline of French Rafales and Mirage 2000s. It is qualified for flight up to 600 knots, and can withstand the shock of carrier operations. For greater flexibility and coverage, the optics move fore-and-aft within the head of the rotating pod.

“We cover a large swath of the ground at very high resolution in a single pass. We use real-time computer processing onboard to devise flight paths and determine whether to move the head or the optics,” said Bruno Depardon, the Thales product manager for airborne optronics.

The pod provides dual-band imagery from low, fast flights or from high-altitude stand-off ranges–which Depardon declined to specify. However, he noted that AREOS can cover 10,000-sq-km-per-hour from 20,000 feet, and can therefore “do the work of many UAVs.”

It is the only system on the market that also provides video in both the infrared and visible spectrum, according to the Thales manager. “The video is the same resolution and range as the still images, although the field-of-view is narrower. AREOS can switch rapidly between the two modes,” he added. Thales also provides the ground station to which AREOS imagery is downlinked for processing, exploitation and dissemination.

To support the customers for these systems, Thales has created an innovation center at its Elaincourt facility near Paris where pilots, engineers and analysts can generate a realistic visual operating environment. The Image’Inn can portray different visibilities, altitudes and lighting. “We can change every parameter in real time. This saves a huge amount of training time for pilots. We used this room to develop TALIOS with them,” said Depardon.

Permanent Pod-view

One of the limitations of imaging-cum-targeting pods has been the need for aircrew to slew the pod-head to the area of interest, and then switch from wide to narrow field-of-view for positive identification and designation of targets. In so doing, situational awareness can be lost.

Thales claims that it has a unique solution, which it has named Permanent View, with geo-referenced imagery from a wide area that is likely to be covered on the mission is stored in the pod. If (for instance) a pilot sees an explosion on the ground or is informed of a target by troops-in-contact, he can arrange to see the surrounding terrain on a cockpit display, with the pod’s field-of-view indicated at center-screen.

This makes slewing the pod easier, and also helps the pilot avoid maneuvers that might temporarily mask the target.
 

Scarface

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At start opf MRCA,. IAF only wanted Mirage 2000, they were like frogs in the pond. But after it became competition, Dassault realised that it was not going to be easy to win.
With all the 6 planes then Eurofighter, Mirage 2000, F-16, Gripen. MiG-35 and F/A-18, Mirage was neither the best performer (it was the last of the lot) and nor could it outprice the others. Thus with Mirage 2000 in the competition, by price preference.. MiG-35 or F-16 would have come out on tops, by performance preference, it would be Eurofighter and F/A-18, thats when Dassault entered with Rafale.
Russians wanted to also enter Su-30 but IAF played one of their cards and put weight restriction and it became MMRCA with uppper weight limit only.to keep Su-30 out,

The evaluation was done firstly to ensure that the cheap fighters are out due to performance, and then Rafail vs EFT was managed by Dassault giving incomplete commercial bid where the ACM comes into picture giving "fantastic" figures for Rafail to be L1.

With 5th gen plane there are two issues, Cost of buying, and cost of using and maintaining. As from USA we klnow the cost of maintaining the Stealth is too expensive. Thus it will be how much the countries respective economies can support the planes purchased.
Agreed on the shady circumstances on the Rafale win,

As far as costs of acquisitions and operation are concerned , the Americans learned from their mistakes with the F-22 and made the F-35 significantly cheaper to acquire and operate compared to F22 and only a tad bit more expensive than 4.5 gen aircraft(F-16 and Gripen are exceptionally cheap,so I'm not including them)
 

WolfPack86

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Rafale deal closer to a decision; goes for final review
The multi-billion Euro deal for 36 Rafales moved a step closer to a decision as the file on the fighter jets has been sent to the Prime Minister's Office for final review and clearance.

Defence sources said today the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale deal with France has been cleared by the Defence Ministry.

While officials remained tightlipped about the state of the deal but a high-ranking source when asked by PTI if it has been moved for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security, said, "I would not say no".

French sources have said they are expecting a positive development this month.

During his visit to France in April last year, Prime MinisterNarendraModihad announced that Indiawould purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract.

Soon after the announcement, the defence ministry scrapped a separate process that was on to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defence giant Dassault Aviation.

The deal is expected to be worth around 7.89 billion Euros for the 36 fighter jets in fly away conditions.

The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new age beyond visual range missile Meteor and Israeli helmet mounted display.

The price of the deal was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including tough negotiation by India, the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.

It is not clear if the price has been brought down further but Indiawas seeking more.

The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs inIndiathrough offsets.

The commercial negotiations on the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues began in mid-January this year.

http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ion-goes-for-final-review-116090101046_1.html
 

BON PLAN

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You think there is no link? Each force has alloted funds for spending, Naval procuirement is mostly going into IACs and now leaked Scoipene,. IAF is going into Su-30 upgrades and Tejas (as it has been ordered) MMRCA was mainly whim of IAF and Modi was not smart to announce the requirement (was due to pushing of Doval) unfortunately the Rafail deal totally hangs now on thinking of DM. Further there are legal hassles to be cleared which can take few more years. Now you see the link?

Ny the way, your english is like France,, incompetent at best.. try knowing English before you write,, you are a literal Frog in the pond.
Je t'e..erde !
 

BON PLAN

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Agreed on the shady circumstances on the Rafale win,

As far as costs of acquisitions and operation are concerned , the Americans learned from their mistakes with the F-22 and made the F-35 significantly cheaper to acquire and operate compared to F22 and only a tad bit more expensive than 4.5 gen aircraft(F-16 and Gripen are exceptionally cheap,so I'm not including them)
Another exemple of re writing History.

F22 is a pure supremacy FIGHTER.

F35 is a Joint STRIKE Fighter.

2 different uses.
 

Scarface

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Another exemple of re writing History.

F22 is a pure supremacy FIGHTER.

F35 is a Joint STRIKE Fighter.

2 different uses.
True,but the high maintenance cost for the Raptor comes from it's stealth factor.

The F-35 strikes brings affordability and stealth together,albeit less stealth than the F-22
 

BON PLAN

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True,but the high maintenance cost for the Raptor comes from it's stealth factor.

The F-35 strikes brings affordability and stealth together,albeit less stealth than the F-22
Affordability? It has to be proved.
The definitive price of the bird is not known. The support cost is not known (because not truly operational).
Let's see.
 

smestarz

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Did you not get the memo? Every plane is evolving. in roles.
The F-22 can also carry air-to-surface weapons such as bombs with Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) guidance and the Small-Diameter Bomb, but cannot self-designate for laser-guided weapons.Internal air-to-surface ordnance is limited to 2,000 lb. These weapons are not part of Air superiority role of F-22.

No one is rewriting history as you claim. F-35 is produced to compliment F-22. To do all roles as F-16 can, but that does not mean that F-22 or F-15 would be limited to only A2A weaponry,. Both carry and can drop A2G weapons and with great accuracy.. The Frog in the pond did not know that did he? Come out of the pond and you will see a lot more than than just Rafail.

Another exemple of re writing History.

F22 is a pure supremacy FIGHTER.

F35 is a Joint STRIKE Fighter.

2 different uses.
 

smestarz

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Is it official word? No..
I mean when a "Defence ministry person who speaks on condition of anonymity ... " those have been there for few years already. Let us get news from Indian Defence minister or the officail spokesperson of Indian Def Min..till then,, nothing is done

read it carrefully : 'part of the deal' .....
 

BON PLAN

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Did you not get the memo? Every plane is evolving. in roles.
The F-22 can also carry air-to-surface weapons such as bombs with Joint Direct Attack Munition (JDAM) guidance and the Small-Diameter Bomb, but cannot self-designate for laser-guided weapons.Internal air-to-surface ordnance is limited to 2,000 lb. These weapons are not part of Air superiority role of F-22.

No one is rewriting history as you claim. F-35 is produced to compliment F-22. To do all roles as F-16 can, but that does not mean that F-22 or F-15 would be limited to only A2A weaponry,. Both carry and can drop A2G weapons and with great accuracy.. The Frog in the pond did not know that did he? Come out of the pond and you will see a lot more than than just Rafail.
The main weapon of Fat35 is the F22.
It's a USAF general that said that, just in a little more polite way.
 

BON PLAN

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Is it official word? No..
I mean when a "Defence ministry person who speaks on condition of anonymity ... " those have been there for few years already. Let us get news from Indian Defence minister or the officail spokesperson of Indian Def Min..till then,, nothing is done
hummmm..... it's smell good !

Your defeat will be entire. I expect not to see you again on these forums after.
 

smestarz

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LOL, unlike you, we are not on the forum because of Rafale, I am on the forum because its related to Indian military. So there is a big difference. That "smell" has been coming for years, but then its like a cake you can smell but you cannot eat. hahahaha keep counting

hummmm..... it's smell good !

Your defeat will be entire. I expect not to see you again on these forums after.
 

Bahamut

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Rafale Deal Closer To A Decision; File Sent To PMO: Goes For Final Review



The multi-billion Euro deal for 36 Rafales moved a step closer to a decision as the file on the fighter jets has been sent to the Prime Minister’s Office for final review and clearance. Defense sources said today the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale deal with France has been cleared by the Defense Ministry.

While officials remained tight-lipped about the state of the deal but a high-ranking source when asked by PTI if it has been moved for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security, said, “I would not say no”.

French sources have said they are expecting a positive development this month.

During his visit to France in April last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract.

Soon after the announcement, the defence ministry scrapped a separate process that was on to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defence giant Dassault Aviation.

The deal is expected to be worth around 7.89 billion Euros for the 36 fighter jets in fly away conditions.

The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new age beyond visual range missile Meteor and Israeli helmet mounted display.

The price of the deal was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including tough negotiation by India, the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.

It is not clear if the price has been brought down further but India was seeking more.

The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.

The commercial negotiations on the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues began in mid-January this year.
 

kstriya

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Rafale Deal Closer To A Decision; File Sent To PMO: Goes For Final Review



The multi-billion Euro deal for 36 Rafales moved a step closer to a decision as the file on the fighter jets has been sent to the Prime Minister’s Office for final review and clearance. Defense sources said today the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale deal with France has been cleared by the Defense Ministry.

While officials remained tight-lipped about the state of the deal but a high-ranking source when asked by PTI if it has been moved for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security, said, “I would not say no”.

French sources have said they are expecting a positive development this month.

During his visit to France in April last year, Prime Minister Narendra Modi had announced that India would purchase 36 Rafale jets in a government-to-government contract.

Soon after the announcement, the defence ministry scrapped a separate process that was on to purchase 126 Rafale fighter planes, built by French defence giant Dassault Aviation.

The deal is expected to be worth around 7.89 billion Euros for the 36 fighter jets in fly away conditions.

The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new age beyond visual range missile Meteor and Israeli helmet mounted display.

The price of the deal was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including tough negotiation by India, the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.

It is not clear if the price has been brought down further but India was seeking more.

The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.

The commercial negotiations on the pricing of the planes, equipment and other issues began in mid-January this year.
Now, we need to wait for Modi to cancel the deal. He has a good reason Scorpene data leak or bargain further to get some critical TOT. Hope, Modi does the best for the nation.
 

Rahul Singh

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Now, we need to wait for Modi to cancel the deal. He has a good reason Scorpene data leak or bargain further to get some critical TOT. Hope, Modi does the best for the nation.
And he will. Because if he can't who else can?

Best bargain that i can think of is asking for transfer of technology of Barracuda propulsion and if possible also its acoustic signature reduction package. While later is hard to get former is something we should rigidly ask for. Then we use it to make a SSK based on Arihant's design using it.
 

WolfPack86

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#Rafale_Deal_Cleared by Ministry of Defence, Government of India Sent to PMO India For final Review.
.
The multi-billion Euro deal for 36 Rafales moved a step closer to a decision as the file on the fighter jets has been sent to the Prime Minister's Office for final review and clearance.
Defence sources said on Thursday the final report submitted by a team negotiating the much-anticipated Rafale deal with France has been cleared by the defence ministry.
.
While officials remained tight-lipped about the state of the deal, a high-ranking source when asked by PTI if it has been moved for clearance by the Cabinet Committee on Security, said, "I would not say no".
.
French sources have said they are expecting a positive development this month.
The deal is expected to be worth around 7.89 billion Euros for the 36 fighter jets in fly away conditions.
.
The weapon systems, part of the deal, will also include the new-age, beyond visual range missile, Meteor, and Israeli helmet mounted display.
.
The price of the deal was brought down from nearly 10 billion Euros, as sought initially, due to various reasons, including tough negotiation by India, the discount offered by the French government and reworking of some of the criteria.
.
It is not clear if the price has been brought down further, but India was seeking more.
The new deal comes with the clause of delivering 50 per cent offsets, creating business worth at least 3 billion Euros for smaller Indian companies and generating thousands of jobs in India through offsets.
https://www.facebook.com/TeamAMCA/photos?ref=page_internal
 

Bahamut

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Now, we need to wait for Modi to cancel the deal. He has a good reason Scorpene data leak or bargain further to get some critical TOT. Hope, Modi does the best for the nation.
Rafale deal has the backing of PM so it will not be cancelled and as for scorpene sub, I have posted my view on the thread there, and we will most likely upgrade them. Plus the Australian has been ordered by court to give paper to DCNS.
 

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