Know Your 'Rafale'

Zebra

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Those who thought that MMRCA deal (RIP) was going to cost just US$ 10 billion are stupid,
as per my estimate, it was almost 38-40 Bn including the line
The most lower price for Rafale which I saw, was $15.5 billion for 126 in flyaway aircrafts and off the shelf.

That happened when euro-consortium bet with their reduced price after L1 got declared. It was also for 126 flyaway aircrafts and off the shelf.
 

BON PLAN

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Now you are repeating what the Australian PM sad before,
Honestly I do agree with his views and your views below, but dont you think you are too late with this idea? What agreement? A country never asks his citizens to sign agreement, Rather make changes in the constitution, that might be better than having "agreement" and this in a way, would apply to everyone, so it does not appear directed to any particular religion but EVERYONE FRENCH, or rather everyone who are taking advantage of French system.

I am not sure how many of the French will probably accept your view, perhaps Marie La Pen.
French citizens are tired. Tired to see strangers and specially muslims to take all the advantages and not the rights of the french country. Next president will have to understand that if he want to be elected. Be sure of that.
 

salute

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@Yusuf ,

lol ,

2012 ???

what corrupt congis were doing before that ???

it was corrupt congi trick when election were near just to make them look like real nationalist and if bjp gets elected and after that rafale jets gets delayed then thats gonna be bjp fault ,

but maybe you already understand this .
 

Tripurantak

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French citizens are tired. Tired to see strangers and specially muslims to take all the advantages and not the rights of the french country. Next president will have to understand that if he want to be elected. Be sure of that.
Things may already be too late, but you never know, here :


Adapted from Dr. Peter Hammond's book: Slavery, Terrorism & Islam:

Historical Roots and Contemporary Threat:

Islamization begins when there are sufficient Muslims in a country to agitate for their religious privileges.

When politically correct, tolerant, and culturally diverse societies agree to Muslim demands for their religious privileges, some of the other components tend to creep in as well. Here's how it works.

As long as the Muslim population remains around or under 2% in any given country, they will be for the most part be regarded as a peace-loving minority, and not as a threat to other citizens. This is the case in:


United States -- Muslim 0.6%

Australia -- Muslim 1.5%

Canada -- Muslim 1.9%

China -- Muslim 1.8%

Italy -- Muslim 1.5%

Norway -- Muslim 1.8%*

*At 2% to 5%, they begin to proselytize from other ethnic minorities and disaffected groups, often with major recruiting from the jails and among street gangs.

This is happening in:

Denmark -- Muslim 2%

Germany -- Muslim 3.7%

United Kingdom -- Muslim 2.7%

Spain -- Muslim 4%

Thailand -- Muslim 4.6%* *

From 5% on, they exercise an inordinate influence in proportion to their percentage of the population. For example, they will push for the introduction of halal (clean by Islamic standards) food, thereby securing food preparation jobs for Muslims.

They will increase pressure on supermarket chains to feature halal on their shelves -- along with threats for failure to comply. This is occurring in:

France -- Muslim 8%

Philippines -- Muslim 5%

Sweden -- Muslim 5%

Switzerland -- Muslim 4.3%

The Netherlands -- Muslim 5.5%

Trinidad & Tobago -- Muslim 5.8%

At this point, they will work to get the ruling government to allow them to rule themselves (within their ghettos) under Sharia, the Islamic Law. The
ultimate goal of Islamists is to establish Sharia law over the entire world.* *


When Muslims approach 10% of the population, they tend to increase lawlessness as a means of complaint about their conditions. In Paris, we are already seeing car-burnings. Any non-Muslim action offends Islam, and results in uprisings and threats, such as in Amsterdam, with opposition to Mohammed cartoons and films about Islam. Such tensions are seen daily, particularly in Muslim sections, in:


Guyana -- Muslim 10%

India -- Muslim 13.4%

Israel -- Muslim 16%

Kenya -- Muslim 10%

Russia -- Muslim 15%* *

After reaching 20%, nations can expect hair-trigger rioting, jihad militia formations, sporadic killings, and the burnings of Christian churches and Jewish synagogues, such as in:

Ethiopia -- Muslim 32.8%* *

At 40%, nations experience widespread massacres, chronic terror attacks, and ongoing militia warfare, such as in:

Bosnia -- Muslim 40%

Chad -- Muslim 53.1%

Lebanon -- Muslim 59.7%*

From 60%, nations experience unfettered persecution of non-believers of all other religions (including non-conforming Muslims), sporadic ethnic cleansing
(genocide), use of Sharia Law as a weapon, and Jizya, the tax placed on infidels, such as in:

Albania -- Muslim 70%

Malaysia -- Muslim 60.4%

Qatar -- Muslim 77.5%

Sudan -- Muslim 70%* *

After 80%, expect daily intimidation and violent jihad, some State-run ethnic cleansing, and even some genocide, as these nations drive out the infidels, and move toward 100% Muslim, such as has been experienced and in some ways is on-going in:

Bangladesh -- Muslim 83%

Egypt -- Muslim 90%

Gaza -- Muslim 98.7%

Indonesia -- Muslim 86.1%

Iran -- Muslim 98%

Iraq -- Muslim 97%

Jordan -- Muslim 92%

Morocco -- Muslim 98.7%

Pakistan -- Muslim 97%

Palestine -- Muslim 99%

Syria -- Muslim 90%

Tajikistan -- Muslim 90%

Turkey -- Muslim 99.8%

United Arab Emirates -- Muslim 96%* *

100% will usher in the peace of 'Dar-es-Salaam' -- the Islamic House of Peace. Here there's supposed to be peace, because everybody is a Muslim, the Madrasses are the only schools, and the Koran is the only word, such as in:


Afghanistan -- Muslim 100%

Saudi Arabia -- Muslim 100%

Somalia -- Muslim 100%

Yemen -- Muslim 100%

Unfortunately, peace is never achieved, as in these 100% states the most radical Muslims intimidate and spew hatred, and satisfy their blood lust by killing less radical Muslims, for a variety of reasons.


'Before I was nine I had learned the basic canon of Arab life. It was me against my brother; me and my brother against our father; my family against my cousins and the clan; the clan against the tribe; the tribe against the world, and all of us against the infidel. -- Leon Uris, 'The Haj'

It is important to understand that in some countries, with well under 100% Muslim populations, such as France, the minority Muslim populations live in
ghettos, within which they are 100% Muslim, and within which they live by Sharia Law. The national police do not even enter these ghettos. There are no national courts nor schools nor non-Muslim religious facilities.

In such situations, Muslims do not integrate into the community at large. The children attend
madrasses. They learn only the Koran. To even associate with an infidel is a crime punishable with death. Therefore, in some areas of certain nations,
Muslim Imams and extremists exercise more power than the national average would
indicate.
 

Brood Father

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Not sure is it rafale information thread or thread related to Muslims ...@Mods please do cleanup ..
 

BON PLAN

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Well I think there is nothing to say other than just this

cancel it immediately.
Unfortunately for you (which is absolutely of zero importance), but fortunately for India, I think it will be inked.

Just a question of time.
 

Rahul Singh

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To be most frank, if Modi government signs this deal without getting real technology of either a turbofan or a nuclear powered submarine then even its hard core supporters will criticize no matter what.

Today Rafale is just yesterday's fighter and even if we sign today IAF won't have a operational squardon by 2020. What's sensible in it?
 

BON PLAN

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To be most frank, if Modi government signs this deal without getting real technology of either a turbofan or a nuclear powered submarine then even its hard core supporters will criticize no matter what.

Today Rafale is just yesterday's fighter and even if we sign today IAF won't have a operational squardon by 2020. What's sensible in it?
Why a yesterday fighter ? What is a today fighter? If you answer "a stealthy one", it's wrong, because stealth will vanished in some few years with new radars (and China work hard on it...)

Rafale has a brand new radar, 10 years after being induce, Spectra evolved year after year and will received new antennaes. new engines on the way, a new helmet, new weapons, sat comm, new decoys....

Rafale will be like Mirage 2000 before it : an evolving system. And India know what it means.
 

Rahul Singh

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Why a yesterday fighter ? What is a today fighter? If you answer "a stealthy one", it's wrong, because stealth will vanished in some few years with new radars (and China work hard on it...)

Rafale has a brand new radar, 10 years after being induce, Spectra evolved year after year and will received new antennaes. new engines on the way, a new helmet, new weapons, sat comm, new decoys....

Rafale will be like Mirage 2000 before it : an evolving system. And India know what it means.
Every fourth generations fighter is yesterday's fighter today (because all major powers and yes those who can afford it is moving to 5th generation). Rafale is also. Doesn't matter if it is evolving because it's not the only one. Americans brought F-15 silent eagle concept, Russians developed SU-35 and even Chinese developed J-10B. So what's so special with Rafale?

Chinese may be developing anti-stealth capability but it is also developing stealth fighters? Why?Because Chinese are trying to develop capability to detect F-22 class stealth fighters and world is moving beyond F-22, even Chinese themselves are. It is called progression. You develop a Lock and then you try to develop a key for it, then again a lock which can't be opened by that key. But again you try to make another key and so on. Neither the key nor the lock is making other obsolete. These are only placing foundations for next generation.

When we will complete making AMCA, it will have taken all anti stealth work by Chinese into account. But for that a lot of testing will be required to be done during developing phase. For that we need money; a lot of it. This is where canceling the Rafale deal comes handy, very very handy.
 

smestarz

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He has his views you have your views (perhaps vested interest) try not to make a comment like that.
Waouhhhh !!!! this is a very argumented post......

from a guy with 24000 posts it is a little bit light.
 

smestarz

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And by the way, if he person is Zero important, how are you important? Just because you are french?
Like I said, lets wait... haha
Unfortunately for you (which is absolutely of zero importance), but fortunately for India, I think it will be inked.

Just a question of time.
 

smestarz

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There is absolutely no sense in the deal at all
Rafale would be humped by Chinese Su-30 MKK, Rafale cannot give any critical advantage for us to win over China and as far as Pakistan is concerned we are well covered.
Are we going to fight next war with weapons of past war? Sure to lose

To be most frank, if Modi government signs this deal without getting real technology of either a turbofan or a nuclear powered submarine then even its hard core supporters will criticize no matter what.

Today Rafale is just yesterday's fighter and even if we sign today IAF won't have a operational squardon by 2020. What's sensible in it?
 

smestarz

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When people say "yesterdays fighter" it means old technology, junk.
Are you really going to tell me about Radar? I mean if we go by that logic, by what reason are you having the balls to call Tejas an old tech? It is going to have AESA radar too. So, then by your definition, we dont need Rafale at all, we can always have a plane with AESA and its cheaper.

PAKFA is not only about Stealth, perhaps you got it really wrong, PAKFA is todays fighter or evolved because it has many abilities AESA, Super cruise (which Rafale cannot) super manueuverable (which rafale is not) it is the entire package, Rafale is highly evolved as Mirage 2000 the only reason is that France did not have an empire big enough to defend France has actually become smaller.. So just one plane made by one national producer is enough for France, and hence you have to keep evolving it, because building a new one is far too expensive for France..

Why a yesterday fighter ? What is a today fighter? If you answer "a stealthy one", it's wrong, because stealth will vanished in some few years with new radars (and China work hard on it...)

Rafale has a brand new radar, 10 years after being induce, Spectra evolved year after year and will received new antennaes. new engines on the way, a new helmet, new weapons, sat comm, new decoys....

Rafale will be like Mirage 2000 before it : an evolving system. And India know what it means.
 

smestarz

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It has brand new everything, which was brand new in American planes about a decade ago,
For example you said that F-16 is old tech etc etc, It has an AESA almost 10 years ago, and you have an AESA now ??? So, Rafale is not only yesterdays plane, but using yesterdays technology which even planes using now are apparently obsolete as said by you

Why a yesterday fighter ? What is a today fighter? If you answer "a stealthy one", it's wrong, because stealth will vanished in some few years with new radars (and China work hard on it...)

Rafale has a brand new radar, 10 years after being induce, Spectra evolved year after year and will received new antennaes. new engines on the way, a new helmet, new weapons, sat comm, new decoys....

Rafale will be like Mirage 2000 before it : an evolving system. And India know what it means.
 

BON PLAN

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When people say "yesterdays fighter" it means old technology, junk.
Are you really going to tell me about Radar? I mean if we go by that logic, by what reason are you having the balls to call Tejas an old tech? It is going to have AESA radar too. So, then by your definition, we dont need Rafale at all, we can always have a plane with AESA and its cheaper.

PAKFA is not only about Stealth, perhaps you got it really wrong, PAKFA is todays fighter or evolved because it has many abilities AESA, Super cruise (which Rafale cannot) super manueuverable (which rafale is not) it is the entire package, Rafale is highly evolved as Mirage 2000 the only reason is that France did not have an empire big enough to defend France has actually become smaller.. So just one plane made by one national producer is enough for France, and hence you have to keep evolving it, because building a new one is far too expensive for France..
Excuse me Bro, but you are unaware of a lot of things :

Tejas will may be have an AESA radar, but an Israeli's one. As the actual (and mechanical antenna) one.

Rafale is a supercruiser. Mach 1.3 with 6 Mica. even with one supersonic drop tank it is supercruiser.

Rafale is as manoeuvrable as F22. Just have a look one some very interesting video about Rafale vs F22 in UAE sky.

You don't like Rafale? it's your choice. But don't say untruths.
 

BON PLAN

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It has brand new everything, which was brand new in American planes about a decade ago,
For example you said that F-16 is old tech etc etc, It has an AESA almost 10 years ago, and you have an AESA now ??? So, Rafale is not only yesterdays plane, but using yesterdays technology which even planes using now are apparently obsolete as said by you
France decided to equip Rafale with a PESA radar first, because entry date was intended for 1996 and the AESA tech was not mature enough for those early time.

BUT the radar was from the beginning studied to received easily an EASA antenna. That's why it take only some hours to change a pesa to an aesa antenna on every RBE2.

All the previous software are kept with AESA antenna. Just some new mode are added (that pesa can't use).
That mean the RBE2 AESA has nearly 15 years of refinement in software behind it ! It's the first operationnal european radar, but with 15 years or tests, signals analysis, refinements, data base, new modes... behind it. Even when the Captor E or the Selex radar of Gripen will be there (When? that is the question ....:pound:), they will be unmature radars as RBE2 PESA was in 2001 with the first Rafale M F1 on line.

RBE2 AESA is at least 10 years ahead all the european and russian counterparts, and only some years ahead USA products. :)

A truth, only a truth. Difficult to digest for some...
 
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