Know Your 'Rafale'

[smestarz]

It's to avoid another WW2 we have a fully independant nuclear force. First developped to face USSR ... don't forget it.

2000 x T62 in front of 100 x Leclerc .... it's peace of cake.

T-62 ? Where are you getting this particular number and model no?
Russia has about 3000 T62 and those are in reserve.
further 10000 of T-72 and T-80 in reserve..
2000 T-62 vs 100 le clerc, yes it will be piece of cake, unfortunately, it would be le clerc which will be the piece of cake.. dream on boy... you clearly are a patriotic french guy but never seen what others have or use. hilarious

 

[smestarz]

Did you notice that you are exactly saying the very same things that Donald Trump is saying, and at whom you are laughing.. Unfortunately, it is not going to be that easy for France till when its part of EU. So it will come down to.
a) Be a part of EU and you will not be able to stop refugess coming to your country,
b) leave the EU and you have to end up spending a lot more on maintaining the armed forces.
Technically you are caught between a rock and hard place.

The only way this is possible if EU as a community takes a stand on immigration,else you cannot,
So if its FREXIT, then possible

Just wait 2017 and the new french President election.... It will be a corner for immigration, because french people are tired and hangry. Enough is enough !

 

[Rahul Singh]

Now we are talking. From technical discussions on Rafale to political problems of France. Hope we move same way everywhere and kill this deal. Lets pour money into AMCA.

 

[BON PLAN]

T-62 ? Where are you getting this particular number and model no?
Russia has about 3000 T62 and those are in reserve.
further 10000 of T-72 and T-80 in reserve..
2000 T-62 vs 100 le clerc, yes it will be piece of cake, unfortunately, it would be le clerc which will be the piece of cake.. dream on boy... you clearly are a patriotic french guy but never seen what others have or use. hilarious

It's just an answer to the number of MBT of russia. T62 and T72, even in number, are not a real threat for last gen west MBT.

And Yes, I'm a patriotic guy. Like you.

 

[BON PLAN]

Did you notice that you are exactly saying the very same things that Donald Trump is saying, and at whom you are laughing.. Unfortunately, it is not going to be that easy for France till when its part of EU. So it will come down to.
a) Be a part of EU and you will not be able to stop refugess coming to your country,
b) leave the EU and you have to end up spending a lot more on maintaining the armed forces.
Technically you are caught between a rock and hard place.

The only way this is possible if EU as a community takes a stand on immigration,else you cannot,
So if its FREXIT, then possible

No. French politics, even Socialist ones, now understand we gave to much liberty to radical muslims in France. You will see some changes in a near futur.

 

[BON PLAN]

Now we are talking. From technical discussions on Rafale to political problems of France. Hope we move same way everywhere and kill this deal. Lets pour money into AMCA.

You are not technically strong enough for AMCA. You need to train to produce a mature modern plane before.

 

[smestarz]

Perhaps the only three tanks that are really into development and production are Leopard 2 and the Polish tank and Olpot which is from Ukraine, The Russians are coming with new Tank platform which will be the basis of their many Armoured designs, By the Way Armata is already in production and in service.
As for NATO, Netherlands has no tanks, lucky that they are in west and not east.

Nice to be patriotic.

It's just an answer to the number of MBT of russia. T62 and T72, even in number, are not a real threat for last gen west MBT.

And Yes, I'm a patriotic guy. Like you.

 

[smestarz]

I do not think its that easy,
Do you forsee the repurcussions? Lets see some,
Who are the countries that buy your military hardware? Qatar, Egypt, .. and potential.. UAE. Kuwait ??
Did you notice that these countries are having islamic majority? So there goes your military business.
This is just a start. There are lot of French companies in Middle east, those will be kicked out.

Indian stance towards the French will also suffer (specially if its Congress party in power) they cannot afford to show they are with country that is having light anti islamic stance. If the BJP is in power then it might help if you join BRICS then.. Also then do hope that somehow Trump wins election in USA that might bring less attention such a french stance.

No. French politics, even Socialist ones, now understand we gave to much liberty to radical muslims in France. You will see some changes in a near futur.

 

[Arjun25]

india and france agreed to sign inter govt agreements


earlier france imposed new conditions with the deal

 

[Arjun25]

India Seeks Further Discount On Rafale, Deal In Final Stages

 

[airtel]

I do not think its that easy,
Do you forsee the repurcussions? Lets see some,
Who are the countries that buy your military hardware? Qatar, Egypt, .. and potential.. UAE. Kuwait ??
Did you notice that these countries are having islamic majority? So there goes your military business.
This is just a start. There are lot of French companies in Middle east, those will be kicked out.

Indian stance towards the French will also suffer (specially if its Congress party in power) they cannot afford to show they are with country that is having light anti islamic stance. If the BJP is in power then it might help if you join BRICS then.. Also then do hope that somehow Trump wins election in USA that might bring less attention such a french stance.

by the way French military business is not dependent only on muslim countries , recently australia bought 12 submarines worth 43 billion $ .
..............and french engines are used in Helicopters & navy ships in many countries including Russia & India .

and India's relationship with France is Good ...................
If they are against Islamic terrorism then It is Good for India too .
France also started patrolling In south china sea that will create pressure on China too ..............


why France will Join BRICS ?

I am not supporter of this Rafael deal but according to latest news , GOI is going to sign this deal .
may be GOI want some technological or political support of French Government .

 

[Rahul Singh]

You are not technically strong enough for AMCA. You need to train to produce a mature modern plane before.

Worst was said, even by our own, when we decided to develop LCA. Today we know they all were wrong. Even Dassult had considered us worthy of only an analog FCS. As it turned out we developed digital FCS ourselves which has not seen a single critical failure till date. Examples are in plenty. I can go in great length. But this will decorate this thread even further and i hate this thread enough already. All that is needed to be said, is today we are well placed to embark on such a journey and only thing government needs to ensure is that we don't repeat mistakes from last time. This time they need to liberal with financial allocations, and here dropping Rafale will come of great help.

 

[BON PLAN]

Worst was said, even by our own, when we decided to develop LCA. Today we know they all were wrong. Even Dassult had considered us worthy of only an analog FCS. As it turned out we developed digital FCS ourselves which has not seen a single critical failure till date. Examples are in plenty. I can go in great length. But this will decorate this thread even further and i hate this thread enough already. All that is needed to be said, is today we are well placed to embark on such a journey and only thing government needs to ensure is that we don't repeat mistakes from last time. This time they need to liberal with financial allocations, and here dropping Rafale will come of great help.

Remember me how many times HAL need to induce a first Tejas? And without the indigenous powerplant.
A lot of west company help HA for that late result. It's not a critic. Only facts.

 

[Sam Biswas]

Remember me how many times HAL need to induce a first Tejas? And without the indigenous powerplant.
A lot of west company help HA for that late result. It's not a critic. Only facts.

Regardless, Rafale will be a DUMB deal for any country particularly India. Hope Modi-Parrokar are smarter than that!

 

[Rahul Singh]

Remember me how many times HAL need to induce a first Tejas?

That is because when we started developing Tejas we did not had anything to start with. Now we have almost all of necessary infrastructure, most of the technology and trained human resource. Most of the technologies needed in AMCA are already available in one form or other. But again, since it's an OT i won't detail them.

And without the indigenous powerplant.
A lot of west company help HA for that late result. It's not a critic. Only facts.

It is true that foreign companies have helped HAL many times. And it is also true that even in AMCA we will be needing foreign help. There are some agreements with Russians in this regard already. Powerplant however will be imported, it is well understood. French have made offer to complete development of Kaveri with their investment, though it is an offset for Rafale. But they are not only, Eurojet has also made an offer for AMCA's engine. Since they will be obliged for offsetting, which might also be in form of investment in completing Kaveri engine. GE is also interested in AMCA's engine and preferred one at this moment. We can even work out a deal with Russians if necessary.

AMCA needs assistance from outside but Rafale is not the only option.

 

[smestarz]

Australia has options from USA, France, UK or many European countries, thus if there is one requirement, they have options. The Middle east countries are drifting away from USA and there in lies the big market for France.
USA wont be giving its top of the line Submarines as yet, Look at the plane purchase, Australia opting for F/A-18 super hornet and F-35 in the future,, so the first choice for Australia is USA and not France.

The point that Bon plan was making was not anti terrorism but more like anti islamic, that the next govt might just stop any sort of immigration from middle east. This is the diffcult part
The point that one should see that by numbers almost all terrorists are muslims , but all muslims are not terrorists. We cannot use those words as substitute for the other. It is next to impossible for France to do that without creating a cultural divide in France. Maybe close to how the Americans dealt with their japanese origin citizen after the attack on pearl harbour. Cany any country afford to do that now?

by the way French military business is not dependent only on muslim countries , recently australia bought 12 submarines worth 43 billion $ .
..............and french engines are used in Helicopters & navy ships in many countries including Russia & India .

and India's relationship with France is Good ...................
If they are against Islamic terrorism then It is Good for India too .
France also started patrolling In south china sea that will create pressure on China too ..............


why France will Join BRICS ?

I am not supporter of this Rafael deal but according to latest news , GOI is going to sign this deal .
may be GOI want some technological or political support of French Government .

 

[BON PLAN]

The point that one should see that by numbers almost all terrorists are muslims , but all muslims are not terrorists. We cannot use those words as substitute for the other. It is next to impossible for France to do that without creating a cultural divide in France. Maybe close to how the Americans dealt with their japanese origin citizen after the attack on pearl harbour. Cany any country afford to do that now?

Very interesting. And I'm serious.

Muslim part of french citizens is nearly 10%. I think the right way is to say : "if you want to use french rights, french social advantages, french health care... you MUST sign an agreement in which you accept ALL the french rules and french way of life. If not, you're free to go everywhere else, and why not in the country of your grand father".

They have to make a choice : France and 100% french way of life, or go away (there is a lot of muslim country, some very rich). No compromising. French politics top brass have accepted too much compromises in the past. Enough now.

 

[Zebra]

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[smestarz]

Now you are repeating what the Australian PM sad before,
Honestly I do agree with his views and your views below, but dont you think you are too late with this idea? What agreement? A country never asks his citizens to sign agreement, Rather make changes in the constitution, that might be better than having "agreement" and this in a way, would apply to everyone, so it does not appear directed to any particular religion but EVERYONE FRENCH, or rather everyone who are taking advantage of French system.

I am not sure how many of the French will probably accept your view, perhaps Marie La Pen.

Very interesting. And I'm serious.

Muslim part of french citizens is nearly 10%. I think the right way is to say : "if you want to use french rights, french social advantages, french health care... you MUST sign an agreement in which you accept ALL the french rules and french way of life. If not, you're free to go everywhere else, and why not in the country of your grand father".

They have to make a choice : France and 100% french way of life, or go away (there is a lot of muslim country, some very rich). No compromising. French politics top brass have accepted too much compromises in the past. Enough now.

 

[smestarz]

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Those who thought that MMRCA deal (RIP) was going to cost just US$ 10 billion are stupid,
as per my estimate, it was almost 38-40 Bn including the line