Rafale deal far from being finalised. Latest news....
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Know Your 'Rafale'
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Finally, Parrikar admits the obvious 
http://idrw.org/finally-parrikar-admits-rafale-deal-nowhere-near-closure/#more-102226
http://idrw.org/finally-parrikar-admits-rafale-deal-nowhere-near-closure/#more-102226
WolfPack86
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Finally Parrikar Admits Rafale Deal Nowhere Near Closure
The government has finally declared that both the Inter Government Agreement (IGA) and negotiations over offsets, in procuring 36 French Rafale fighters are yet to be finalised. In a written reply to the Rajya Sabha, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on 19 July said details on the Rafale purchase, including the transfer of technology through offsets would emerge after the negotiations were completed. “The negotiations are underway and the IGA and offset contract are yet to be finalised,” Parrikar stated, a month after categorically declaring that the Rafale deal would be completed by June. India has been insisting on France discharging a 50% offset liability of the overall contract cost, which has appreciably hiked the final price that too remains unresolved. “The minister does not appear to be in the know of what is going on in his ministry” a senior Indian Air Force (IAF) officer said. The Rafale import seems increasingly indeterminate and unlikely, he added declining to be identified. Other IAF officers conceded that if the IGA were not inked before the year-end, the fighter purchase would not fructify despite the fanfare with which Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced it in Paris in April 2015. The Indian media touted the decision as yet another instance of Modi’s decisiveness. At the time both sides had agreed that India would acquire 36 Rafales off-the-shelf for the same price that manufacturers Dassault sold them to France’s Armee’ de L’air. The Rafales had been shortlisted in 2012 from amongst six fighters vying for the IAF’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft tender for 126 platforms, issued in 2007. Modi’s surprise announcement superceded this deal which had been under negotiation since early 2012, but was deadlocked on transferring technology to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to licence build 108 Rafales in Bangalore. The additional 18 Rafales were to have been bought off the shelf. Official sources, meanwhile, said National Security Advisor is believed to have recently ‘urged’ Parrikar to fast track the Rafale contract, as the continuing delays in confirming it had become embarrassing. PM Modi and visiting French President Francois Hollande had confidently declared in Delhi in January that the fighter deal would be concluded ‘within days’. But defence industry insiders believe Parrikar is dragging his feet on the Rafale purchase, as he is reportedly not entirely convinced of the economic and operational efficacy of acquiring only two squadrons at an astronomical price. The overall Rafale purchase, including its weaponry and engineering support package, is reportedly $10.5-11 billion. A back-of-the-envelope calculation makes it whopping $290 for each fighter, accounting for a major chunk of the IAF’s capital acquisition budget, even though payments would be extended over several years. The Defence Minister is believed to be of the view that for the price of each Rafale, the IAF can acquire multiple licence-built Su-30MKI’s and many more Tejas Light Combat Aircraft to make up flagging fighter numbers and hence, is subtly stalling progress on acquiring the French fighter. In early 2015, when negotiations for the MMRCA were deadlocked, Parrikar had declared that upgraded Su-30MKI multi-role fighter were ‘always there’ for the IAF as an alternative to the Rafales. Insiders claim he continues to pursue this line of thinking. Parrikar is also believed to have repeatedly declined, since April, to meet a team of senior French officials seeking to discuss-and finalise- the Rafale contract. Consequently, in an odd turn of events, cursory negotiations have begun recently between the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the French Embassy in New Delhi. In most foreign materiel procurements, particularly one as high profile as the Rafale tender, local embassies, at best perform a liaison role. To add to France’s irritation Parrikar is in advanced and much publicised negotiations with executives from Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Saab, all offering to transfer their production lines to India for the F-16 and F/A-18 Hornet and the Gripen-E respectively. Earlier this year Parrikar had declared that the MoD would shortlist at least one foreign fighter by end-2016 for indigenous manufacture under the governments Make in India initiative. Perhaps the Defence Minister should first vindicate what his PM had promised France rather than cast about for additional fighters, which for now too appear somewhat fanciful.
http://idrw.org/finally-parrikar-admits-rafale-deal-nowhere-near-closure/#more-102226
The government has finally declared that both the Inter Government Agreement (IGA) and negotiations over offsets, in procuring 36 French Rafale fighters are yet to be finalised. In a written reply to the Rajya Sabha, Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on 19 July said details on the Rafale purchase, including the transfer of technology through offsets would emerge after the negotiations were completed. “The negotiations are underway and the IGA and offset contract are yet to be finalised,” Parrikar stated, a month after categorically declaring that the Rafale deal would be completed by June. India has been insisting on France discharging a 50% offset liability of the overall contract cost, which has appreciably hiked the final price that too remains unresolved. “The minister does not appear to be in the know of what is going on in his ministry” a senior Indian Air Force (IAF) officer said. The Rafale import seems increasingly indeterminate and unlikely, he added declining to be identified. Other IAF officers conceded that if the IGA were not inked before the year-end, the fighter purchase would not fructify despite the fanfare with which Prime Minister Narendra Modi announced it in Paris in April 2015. The Indian media touted the decision as yet another instance of Modi’s decisiveness. At the time both sides had agreed that India would acquire 36 Rafales off-the-shelf for the same price that manufacturers Dassault sold them to France’s Armee’ de L’air. The Rafales had been shortlisted in 2012 from amongst six fighters vying for the IAF’s Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft tender for 126 platforms, issued in 2007. Modi’s surprise announcement superceded this deal which had been under negotiation since early 2012, but was deadlocked on transferring technology to Hindustan Aeronautics Limited to licence build 108 Rafales in Bangalore. The additional 18 Rafales were to have been bought off the shelf. Official sources, meanwhile, said National Security Advisor is believed to have recently ‘urged’ Parrikar to fast track the Rafale contract, as the continuing delays in confirming it had become embarrassing. PM Modi and visiting French President Francois Hollande had confidently declared in Delhi in January that the fighter deal would be concluded ‘within days’. But defence industry insiders believe Parrikar is dragging his feet on the Rafale purchase, as he is reportedly not entirely convinced of the economic and operational efficacy of acquiring only two squadrons at an astronomical price. The overall Rafale purchase, including its weaponry and engineering support package, is reportedly $10.5-11 billion. A back-of-the-envelope calculation makes it whopping $290 for each fighter, accounting for a major chunk of the IAF’s capital acquisition budget, even though payments would be extended over several years. The Defence Minister is believed to be of the view that for the price of each Rafale, the IAF can acquire multiple licence-built Su-30MKI’s and many more Tejas Light Combat Aircraft to make up flagging fighter numbers and hence, is subtly stalling progress on acquiring the French fighter. In early 2015, when negotiations for the MMRCA were deadlocked, Parrikar had declared that upgraded Su-30MKI multi-role fighter were ‘always there’ for the IAF as an alternative to the Rafales. Insiders claim he continues to pursue this line of thinking. Parrikar is also believed to have repeatedly declined, since April, to meet a team of senior French officials seeking to discuss-and finalise- the Rafale contract. Consequently, in an odd turn of events, cursory negotiations have begun recently between the Ministry of Defence (MoD) and the French Embassy in New Delhi. In most foreign materiel procurements, particularly one as high profile as the Rafale tender, local embassies, at best perform a liaison role. To add to France’s irritation Parrikar is in advanced and much publicised negotiations with executives from Lockheed Martin, Boeing and Saab, all offering to transfer their production lines to India for the F-16 and F/A-18 Hornet and the Gripen-E respectively. Earlier this year Parrikar had declared that the MoD would shortlist at least one foreign fighter by end-2016 for indigenous manufacture under the governments Make in India initiative. Perhaps the Defence Minister should first vindicate what his PM had promised France rather than cast about for additional fighters, which for now too appear somewhat fanciful.
http://idrw.org/finally-parrikar-admits-rafale-deal-nowhere-near-closure/#more-102226
Jagdish58
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I guess you French guys need to worry about your immigrant friends killing your citizen in 100's rather than burst out your frustration on Russia
If Russia is weak bear then this is right time to defeat them and occupy bring in all your NATO wolf pack and attack
smestarz
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You are achieving new levels of stupidity. No one fires on any military plane unless its deemed as a threat. There have been many videos where Russian planes have ventured close to American fleet or planes, There have been instances when American planes are shadowing russians, Why did they not fire on each other? They did not communicate with each other on "international" frequency/ Its simple, they dont want to start a war
Now with incident in Syria, the F-16 could have simply flown near the Su-24 (flown along side) and escorted it past their "border" This is very much possible and it happens.. Or there is another method where the enemy plane is tracked and then targeted. When the radar locks on, the enemy plane having RWRs understands that its been locked on, flies off to break the lock and usually it goes away from the enemy territory, Problem solved without firing missile. If that pilot does not have this common sense then what to say, Perhaps he is related to you.
Now with incident in Syria, the F-16 could have simply flown near the Su-24 (flown along side) and escorted it past their "border" This is very much possible and it happens.. Or there is another method where the enemy plane is tracked and then targeted. When the radar locks on, the enemy plane having RWRs understands that its been locked on, flies off to break the lock and usually it goes away from the enemy territory, Problem solved without firing missile. If that pilot does not have this common sense then what to say, Perhaps he is related to you.
smestarz
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Yes you are obliged to believe, at least that might stop the stupid questions you come up with. You do not answer anything thats asked to you. There are no answers.The bear is a weak bear, ook, but the French cock is being cooked, already roasted. NATO nor the USA has the economy to support a long war. Anything more than a month and NATO will roll over. BTW Netherlands has sold of most of its tanks and Germany is not as armed as before.. That is NATO for you.
smestarz
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In the current situation, I do not want to sound bad, but during the 16th -18th Century, the British, the French, he Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese were all super powers and they committed various atrocities. on the conquered people.Since the history is written by the victors hence these atrocities are justified by these victors. The French and portuguese were the biggest slave traders (human traffickers ) that time from Africa to Americas. Like we say in history, "what goes around, comes around" and guess now what the French are probably hearing is "NOW, ITS MY TURN" Its not only the French, the belgians are getting the brunt too, The brits.. The French wanted slaves and cheap labour and they got it, and guess now the boot is on the other foot. Now its more complicated for the French and rest of the world, its not the immigrants but few of their own citizens who are now brainwashed for "holy war" you cannot know who to trust. The shoe lace bomber for example was a white guy.
WolfPack86
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Dassault Expects Indian Rafale Deal to Boost Its Bottomline For 2016
French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault is hoping that a forthcoming signing of a contract with India to sell 36 Rafale aircraft would boost its revenue for the financial year 2016.
Dassault published on July 21, interim results for the first six months of 2016. Consolidated order intake in the first half of 2016 amounted to EUR 1.3 billion, compared to EUR 4.3 billion in the first half of 2015, which was marked by the Egyptian order for 24 Rafale fighters. Exports accounted for 64% compared to 95% in the first half of 2015
The company reduced its forecast for Falcon jet deliveries from 60 to 50 aircraft over 2016, and anticipates a slight decline in its sales annual sales compared to 2015 which it attributed to unfavourable business climate in Europe and elsewhere. "We are just a mirror of the macro-economy, or global growth slows. It is moving towards a low level for some time," said Trappier.
Following the Egypt and Qatar deals, Dassault is looking for a third Rafale deal worth an approximate EUR 7.89 billion with India which will help it boost the financial year order intake. We have done 99.9% of the work, in fact 100%. The ball is in the Indian camp," Dassault CEO Eric Trappier told the French Media indicating that they (French government) has done everything it can do about the deal (price, offsets, industrial partnerships) and it was up to India to take it or leave it.
However, reports from India suggest that the Rafale deal is nowhere near closure. Last week, Indian defence minister Manohar Parrikar said, the Inter Government Agreement (IGA) and the offset contract for the multi-million euro Rafale fighter jet deal is yet to be finalised.
Details including transfer of technology through offsets will emerge after the negotiations are completed.
“The negotiations are underway and IGA and offset contract are yet to be finalized,” he said.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...to_Boost_Its_Bottomline_For_2016#.V5l7_vl97IU
French aircraft manufacturer, Dassault is hoping that a forthcoming signing of a contract with India to sell 36 Rafale aircraft would boost its revenue for the financial year 2016.
Dassault published on July 21, interim results for the first six months of 2016. Consolidated order intake in the first half of 2016 amounted to EUR 1.3 billion, compared to EUR 4.3 billion in the first half of 2015, which was marked by the Egyptian order for 24 Rafale fighters. Exports accounted for 64% compared to 95% in the first half of 2015
The company reduced its forecast for Falcon jet deliveries from 60 to 50 aircraft over 2016, and anticipates a slight decline in its sales annual sales compared to 2015 which it attributed to unfavourable business climate in Europe and elsewhere. "We are just a mirror of the macro-economy, or global growth slows. It is moving towards a low level for some time," said Trappier.
Following the Egypt and Qatar deals, Dassault is looking for a third Rafale deal worth an approximate EUR 7.89 billion with India which will help it boost the financial year order intake. We have done 99.9% of the work, in fact 100%. The ball is in the Indian camp," Dassault CEO Eric Trappier told the French Media indicating that they (French government) has done everything it can do about the deal (price, offsets, industrial partnerships) and it was up to India to take it or leave it.
However, reports from India suggest that the Rafale deal is nowhere near closure. Last week, Indian defence minister Manohar Parrikar said, the Inter Government Agreement (IGA) and the offset contract for the multi-million euro Rafale fighter jet deal is yet to be finalised.
Details including transfer of technology through offsets will emerge after the negotiations are completed.
“The negotiations are underway and IGA and offset contract are yet to be finalized,” he said.
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16...to_Boost_Its_Bottomline_For_2016#.V5l7_vl97IU
WolfPack86
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France are wasting our time and money. Govt should cancel rafale deal and go for other options.
WolfPack86
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Following the Egypt and Qatar deals, Dassault is looking for a third Rafale deal worth an approximate EUR 7.89 billion with India which will help it boost the financial year order intake. We have done 99.9% of the work, in fact 100%. The ball is in the Indian camp," Dassault CEO Eric Trappier told the French Media indicating that they (French government) has done everything it can do about the deal (price, offsets, industrial partnerships) and it was up to India to take it or leave it.
WolfPack86
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I think India should leave rafale deal once for all.
smestarz
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The govt it seems is considering the pros/cons and price factors for various options
There can be some more development in 4th Gen planes but only to an extent.
Su-30 MKI can be upgraded to Super sukhoi with AESA, avionics, perhaps a newer engine, Rafale would not be developed much more further if there is no new foreign order. After all who will pay for this development? The Russian upgrades are in a way funded by Russia and so they dont worry that much.
F/A-18 and F-15 will always have some incremental upgrades to keep them top of the line, so will F-16, Gripen and eurofighter. Now the govt has to consider the cost LCC and other costs of taking a plane. The IAF's whim to have a "medium" plane is unfounded for example they already use MiG-29 and so in interest of commonality, it makes more sense to have MiG-35. It has an AESA, is cheap to use and fly. pilots are already trained on MiG-29 can just easily slot into MiG-35. Further if IAF needs a bomb truck that can take down any target and fight itself out of trouble, there is Su-34 full back. or maybe Su-35, both these planes bring up commonality with it.
Rafale is an expensive plane to buy and use, and it will come up with weapons that are even more expensive. and over its life time, the Rafale will end up being almost twice as expensive as the Sukhoi derivatives. The only thing perhaps that has the discussion going is the love of IAF or perhaps the earlier govt to go for western products, perhaps because there was good commission involved (like in case of VVIP chopper scam) and maybe soon we learn that about Pilatius.
There can be some more development in 4th Gen planes but only to an extent.
Su-30 MKI can be upgraded to Super sukhoi with AESA, avionics, perhaps a newer engine, Rafale would not be developed much more further if there is no new foreign order. After all who will pay for this development? The Russian upgrades are in a way funded by Russia and so they dont worry that much.
F/A-18 and F-15 will always have some incremental upgrades to keep them top of the line, so will F-16, Gripen and eurofighter. Now the govt has to consider the cost LCC and other costs of taking a plane. The IAF's whim to have a "medium" plane is unfounded for example they already use MiG-29 and so in interest of commonality, it makes more sense to have MiG-35. It has an AESA, is cheap to use and fly. pilots are already trained on MiG-29 can just easily slot into MiG-35. Further if IAF needs a bomb truck that can take down any target and fight itself out of trouble, there is Su-34 full back. or maybe Su-35, both these planes bring up commonality with it.
Rafale is an expensive plane to buy and use, and it will come up with weapons that are even more expensive. and over its life time, the Rafale will end up being almost twice as expensive as the Sukhoi derivatives. The only thing perhaps that has the discussion going is the love of IAF or perhaps the earlier govt to go for western products, perhaps because there was good commission involved (like in case of VVIP chopper scam) and maybe soon we learn that about Pilatius.
smestarz
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Though MiG-29K has evolved from MiG-29, there is difference in both, The air frame of the carrier planes is usually more stronger and hence heavier. the landing gear is stronger too, The plane has to be produced to be able to stand the vigours and corrosive nature of the sea. MiG-29 UPG that IAF uses has not reported such issues. Further it is matter of servicibility, do you have the detailed report of CAG?
Jagdish58
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smestarz
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Covered that yesterday here:
Indian Navy Developments & Discussions - Shashi Kant Sharma-CAG report
Mostly nonsense. Just an exercise in covering up the mis-deeds of last occupier of GoI gaddi. That too of decisions that were made by the person who is currently making this report.
Looks like a report made to order from American Embassy in Delhi.
smestarz
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Dassault has been expecting the deal to be signed for past 4 years, They can still be hopeful, they have time, we have time ..
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