Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

BUYING RAFALE, THAN BETTER BUY DASSAULT COMPANY
Dr Swamy alleges that the Rafale deal had been privately negotiated between two sisters of Sonia Gandhi and Carla Bruni, the wife of the former French President. Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts.

Dr Subramanian Swamy has asked Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to sign any deal with French company Dasault for buying Rafale warplanes. “Dassault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dassault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective,” Dr Swamy said in a statement.

Further Warned that he may have to file a public interest litigation (PIL), if, “the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal”, Dr Swamy also levels some serious allegations about how the deal had been negotiated with the previous government.
Swamy's statement below:

I urge the Prime Minister not to finalize the Rafale Aircraft Deal with France. The deal originally was negotiated by the previous UPA Government.

There are two major issues with the Rafale Aircraft Deal which if clinched would embarrass the BJP Government at the Centre. The first is that Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts. Some countries have cancelled contracts after signing an MoU with Dasault, the manufacturers, after carrying out a trial of the plane, for example, Switzerland.

The Rafale performance of Libya and Egypt turned out to be worst of all the aircrafts which were deployed by the allies liberating the countries from tyranny.

The second issue is that the present Rafale Deal negotiated was de-facto a privately negotiated deal between the wife of the former French President Ms Carla Bruni, who is an Italian with two Italian sisters of Ms Sonia Gandhi, namely Ms Anushka and Ms Nadia, and is a corrupt deal to the core.

Dasault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dasault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective.

If the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal, then I will have no option but to approach the Court in a PIL to get it set aside.
@Nuvneet Kundu may be having more information

https://sagarmedianews.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/buying-rafale-than-better-buy-dassault-company/

Just one problem : DA is not to sell. And French state will never accept. Question closed.

 

[BON PLAN]

As of May 2016, Dassault Aviation's Market Capitalisation is $10.1 billion, according to Forbes. Why India or any other country should buy 36 jets (which may materialize after 4-5 years) for $8+ billion when they can buy up the company itself for $10 billion pronto?

More than 50% of stakes are in the Dassault familly hands, and french state hands.
If they don't want to sell, and they don't want, you can do all you want. No deal !

 

[harsh]

Almost impossible to concentrate so much BS in so little space ... a real gem. Just wondering, has anyone informed Dr Swamy that Dassault was not for sale ?

Thats a taunt on the ridiculous price tag.

 

[SajeevJino]

The Discussions for Rafale is in advanced stage and its stuck there.

RE: the nice updates.
Parrikar is not out of favour nor NaMo has any issues with Parrikar, since if the decision has to be taken then NaMo can just tell Parrikar to push it. Both NaMo and Parrikar are waiting for their own sweet time. Modi has to ensure good marketing of India and to get the resources and position needed (NSG membership and UNSC seat) Would India buy the UNSC seat with 36 Rafales that seems to be the question, Or maybe Egypt and Qatar already ensured that FRANCE vetos indians UNSC position by buying Rafales.

There are many pros and cons here

DM is focusing on the present projects FGFA and Tejas, and also AMCA for future (and its engines) and in these scheme of things, France really does not have a role.. So would GoI buy Rafales and hamper its position and finance?

So after all you just skipped the MMRCA, that the Airforce wants more than the FGFA as of now

 

[smestarz]

Why be obsessed with 4th Gen plane when more capable and actual stealthy 5th Gen plane is available?
What else, Qatar (good pal of pakistan) will have them too.

So after all you just skipped the MMRCA, that the Airforce wants more than the FGFA as of now

 

[smestarz]

YEAR OLD NEWS
After that NaMo cancelled the MMRCA and asked for ugrent requirement of 36 Rafales.

So Technically he listened to Swami also, and cancelled the deal and then tried to put his own "brand" on the deal

BUYING RAFALE, THAN BETTER BUY DASSAULT COMPANY
Dr Swamy alleges that the Rafale deal had been privately negotiated between two sisters of Sonia Gandhi and Carla Bruni, the wife of the former French President. Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts.

Dr Subramanian Swamy has asked Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to sign any deal with French company Dasault for buying Rafale warplanes. “Dassault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dassault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective,” Dr Swamy said in a statement.

Further Warned that he may have to file a public interest litigation (PIL), if, “the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal”, Dr Swamy also levels some serious allegations about how the deal had been negotiated with the previous government.
Swamy's statement below:

I urge the Prime Minister not to finalize the Rafale Aircraft Deal with France. The deal originally was negotiated by the previous UPA Government.

There are two major issues with the Rafale Aircraft Deal which if clinched would embarrass the BJP Government at the Centre. The first is that Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts. Some countries have cancelled contracts after signing an MoU with Dasault, the manufacturers, after carrying out a trial of the plane, for example, Switzerland.

The Rafale performance of Libya and Egypt turned out to be worst of all the aircrafts which were deployed by the allies liberating the countries from tyranny.

The second issue is that the present Rafale Deal negotiated was de-facto a privately negotiated deal between the wife of the former French President Ms Carla Bruni, who is an Italian with two Italian sisters of Ms Sonia Gandhi, namely Ms Anushka and Ms Nadia, and is a corrupt deal to the core.

Dasault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dasault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective.

If the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal, then I will have no option but to approach the Court in a PIL to get it set aside.
@Nuvneet Kundu may be having more information

https://sagarmedianews.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/buying-rafale-than-better-buy-dassault-company/

 

[sasum]

So Technically he listened to Swami also,

Even technically Modi bucked the directive of Dr. Swamy by promising purchase of 36 Rafale. Swamy didn't approve a single one. Knowing, how headstrong he is, Dassault will be relentlessly hounded till the deal is scrapped altogether. See how Raghuram Rajan capitulated in the face of Swamy tirade.

 

[Sam Biswas]

Even technically Modi bucked the directive of Dr. Swamy by promising purchase of 36 Rafale. Swamy didn't approve a single one. Knowing, how headstrong he is, Dassault will be relentlessly hounded till the deal is scrapped altogether. See how Raghuram Rajan capitulated in the face of Swamy tirade.

Swamy makes serious points. Rafale has been a serious problem for India and IAF. Dussault is very crooked and kept on changing the terms of the deal raising the cost to ~$300 million which is simply unacceptable. From a prosperous defense deal, it turned into a disaster. NaMo and others are trying to gently get out of this nightmare for all involved. France did an extreme disservice to India using the sloppy UPA administration. Swamy is right on the money!

Rajan is another leftover of UPA. He is a good academician and did good work with RBI. But the problem is Rajan is still in the UPA philosophy of slow or No growth trajectory. Modi wants rapid advancement of Indian economy that Rajan is not in agreement. India needs someone who will loosen interest rate and work with PM behind the scene. Indian economy needs more cash flow as are the Indian startups. Without more funding they will disappear.

Swamy is right on Rajan and Rafale regardless of his flamboyant approach on both. It is good to have someone who can speak his/her mind without being politically correct. Swamy is good for India; his heart is at the right place,

 

[BON PLAN]

Why be obsessed with 4th Gen plane when more capable and actual stealthy 5th Gen plane is available?
What else, Qatar (good pal of pakistan) will have them too.

F22 is the sole operationnal "so callaed 5th gen by Lockeed Martin marketing definition" fighter. No more in production. So sad !
F35 not operationnal. Will not see a battle sky before some yearSSS. Not supercruiser so not 5th gen.
J20 or J31 ??? just ask your neighbour C...a
PAKFA? worst status than F35.

 

[BON PLAN]

What else, Qatar (good pal of pakistan) will have them too.

so F16 option, as second MMRCA, is dead.

 

[harsh]

Yes f16 is dead. Defence Minister already make a statement about no f16 in an interview.

so F16 option, as second MMRCA, is dead.

 

[smestarz]

Its strange, on what basis are you calling names to PAKFA? Because Rafale is not even 10% as capable as PAKFA? hahahaha
The french are definitely reaching a new low,

F22 is the sole operationnal "so callaed 5th gen by Lockeed Martin marketing definition" fighter. No more in production. So sad !
F35 not operationnal. Will not see a battle sky before some yearSSS. Not supercruiser so not 5th gen.
J20 or J31 ??? just ask your neighbour C...a
PAKFA? worst status than F35.

 

[BON PLAN]

Its strange, on what basis are you calling names to PAKFA? Because Rafale is not even 10% as capable as PAKFA? hahahaha
The french are definitely reaching a new low,

Let's speak about PAKFA perf when it will be operationnaly induce. With a complete system (that will add some weight to the bird). So far it's only a nice acrobatic team plane, but piece of cake even for a Mig21.

 

[BON PLAN]

06/21/2016 The service Meteor on Gripen C !

The new European missile air-air long-range reference MBDA Meteor is officially in service with the Swedish Air Force ( Flygvapnet ) on the modernized version of the Gripen C / D MS20 . The Meteor missile was declared operational on Gripen C / D in late 2014 after the series of shots of integration success. In fact , the Swedish Air Force became the first to implement the new missile. First commitment : During the past two weeks , the squadron of F21 Flygvapnet with the new standard MS20 Gripen C / D was able to engage for the first time the new missile. Swedish drivers were notably measure the superiority of the new missile engaging F-16 and F / A-18 Norwegian and Finnish on the training site of Vidsel in Sweden. With the arrival of Meteor , the F21 squadron was able to thoroughly review the tactics of long-range commitment.

The Meteor missile:
The Meteor is primarily restricted to long-range interception missions beyond visual range (BVR) of any type of aircraft. Its use is preferred for high value targets such as the attack on more than 100 km of aircraft radar or tankers.

This missile will allow to ensure destruction efficiency at distances still important, in the order of 50 Nm (between the target and the shooter aircraft at the time of impact).

For this purpose, the weapon system comprises:

An onboard radar that provides accurate information about the target before the departure of the missile, and Link16 type of data link providing the same functions by retransmitting towards the plane shooter information from a sensor worn by another aircraft.

target identification systems at distances compatible with the range of the missile.
Sufficient maneuverability of the missile in all phases of flight, for all shooting distances, which should ensure a high probability of destroying targets.
The propulsion of the missile is also a technological challenge because of the successful concept: that of a ramjet. This ramjet solid propellant and controlled thrust (Throttleable Ducted Rocket or TDR) in its cruise phase comprises an integrated powder accelerator in the combustion chamber, thereby to provide sufficient initial pulse to reach a speed compatible with the operating ramjet.

By 2018, the Meteor will take office on the Gripen E and Rafale F-3R. In 2019 the Eurofighter T3 and 2020 on the F-35

Rafale before Eurofighter !!!! interesting news.

 

[smestarz]

MiG-21 was never an acrobatic plane, and as I remember, there was no acrobatic team based on Mig-21. But yes Rafale is good acrobatic plane, designed and made by acrobats and flown by few more. Good for you.
France always looks at Russian products with awe as to how the Russians can achieve so much with limited budget. Soon france will come to terms with that and start to add more avionics to Rafale just to make it say 15% as capable at PAKFA and say ... Rafale is 5th Gen plane too.. look we copied some tech to make it 5th Gen.. good luck to you

Let's speak about PAKFA perf when it will be operationnaly induce. With a complete system (that will add some weight to the bird). So far it's only a nice acrobatic team plane, but piece of cake even for a Mig21.

 

[Bahamut]

Let's speak about PAKFA perf when it will be operationnaly induce. With a complete system (that will add some weight to the bird). So far it's only a nice acrobatic team plane, but piece of cake even for a Mig21.

LRIP is planned for 2017 and with new engine in 2020.As for avionics most were developed for Su 35S have used but with increased sophistication.

 

[gadeshi]

LRIP is planned for 2017 and with new engine in 2020.As for avionics most were developed for Su 35S have used but with increased sophistication.

PAK FA has full avionics suite since T-50-5 (late 2014). But @BonPlan is dumb as always.
Some additions or substitutions will take place until T-50-11 (planned mid 2017), which will be full scale LRIP master specimen, but none of those changes will affect weight more than +- 50kg.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[smestarz]

Well he is a "pro Rafale, anti rest of the planes" Troll. The French believe that they produce everything best, but given their closed mindedness, they do not see the others are excelling far better than they are.
And come to think of it, I find the French are one of the biggest hippocrites. Gripen and Eufofighter users have always maintained that METEOR will imrprove the BVR ability of their planes and the countries like UK, sweden are putting their weight behind METEOR and going to induct these, But apparently (and based on what BP said) The French will be ordering about 100 rounds of Meteor (far below the nos of planes that they have) The French will be pushing more for their MICA missiles as they have invested a lot in purchasing them. Thus French are apparently also marketing METEOR to try and sell their Rafales as having capable BVR missiles which they apparently do not really want to induct in quantity.

PAK FA has full avionics suite since T-50-5 (late 2014). But @BonPlan is dumb as always.
Some additions or substitutions will take place until T-50-11 (planned mid 2017), which will be full scale LRIP master specimen, but none of those changes will affect weight more than +- 50kg.

Отправлено с моего XT1080 через Tapatalk

 

[WolfPack86]

New Delhi is in the final stages of a process that could lead to a contract for 36 Dassault Rafale fighter aircraft.

Negotiations between Indian and French teams regarding the final terms of the contract are now concluded, said defence minister Manohar Parrikar during a recent visit to Bengaluru.

“I should receive their report this week and the ministry will analyse it and then send it to the Government,” he said. “After the report is submitted, it may take the government four to five weeks to officially come to a conclusion as to the final terms of the contract.”

Parrikar made the remarks during a recent visit to Bangalore. He indicated that the contract would be valued at approximately $7-8 billion.

New Delhi will also look to acquire a single-engined and a twin-engined fighter type under the Government’s ‘Make-in-India’ initiative for manufacture in India.

“We also envisage acquiring single-engined and twin-engined fighter aircraft under the ‘Make in India’ programme,” he says. “Final discussions are likely to be concluded in a couple of months to decide the exact course of action, though more or less the line is decided.”

Extensive negotiations have reportedly been underway between the Ministry of Defence and the air force to decide on the final requirements and iron out the financial aspects of such a proposal.

The plans for production of a twin-engined fighter in India could tie-in with recent remarks by Dassault Aviation chief executive Eric Trappier: “At the moment we are negotiating the price for the first 36……we are already preparing the second phase of the contract, that is an additional order of some 90 aircraft but that is in the long term.”

Saab has been running a highly visible campaign in India to promote the Gripen E to be built in India. Lockheed Martin has offered its F-16V and Boeing has proposed the F/A-18 E/F Super Hornet for manufacture in India.
http://www.defencenews.in/article/Indo-French-deal-for-36-Rafale-Fighter-Jets-move-forward-6197

 

[WolfPack86]

Indian deal for 36 Rafales moves forward!