Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

Either you are born stupid or just a nut
Those two planes nor countries were in combat, They were what we call "mock combat" where the planes get into positions and simulate firing and winning (Remember the Rafale photo of F-22 in its gun sight?)
No one fires missiles during these combats.

We are not very much in favour of Americans, but if there is accident involving a combat gone wrong, we feel bad abt it specially pilot losing his life WHEN NOT IN COMBAT.

That is the difference between Indian and French. Do keep that in mind.

Mirage 2000 were upgraded for the kickbacks ... did you not read how expensive they are? and what capability? AESA? No, anything excellent that it can actually take out PAF F-16 Block 52 NO
Its just upgrade for kickbacks

Fact is that a Turkish plane was shoot down. The second F16 wasn't able to shoot in return the M2000.... and there is a kind of smooth war between Greek and Turkish, you know that, so the two sides flew armed.

The Mirage 2000-5 and -9 have better radar than any F16 except maybe AESA ones (ie F16 bk 60). Just see the small nose cone of the F16. F16 bk 50 is peace of cake for M2000-5 or -9. All exercises prove that.


"We are not very much in favour of Americans, but if there is accident involving a combat gone wrong, we feel bad abt it specially pilot losing his life WHEN NOT IN COMBAT.
That is the difference between Indian and French. Do keep that in mind." => WHAT DOES IT MEAN ???

 

[Tactical Frog]

Airbus Close to Selling Rest of Stake in Dassault Aviation

Andrea Rothman
June 8, 2016 —


Airbus Group SE is close to selling off its remaining holding in Dassault Aviation SA as the European aircraft maker disposes of assets to focus on its core businesses, people familiar with the matter said.

Airbus is working with advisers, and a sale could come as soon as this week, the people said, asking not to be named because the deliberations are private. No final decision has been made and the timing could change, the people said.

Airbus held 23.6 percent of Dassault Aviation as of April 3, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. That holding has a market value of about 2.1 billion euros ($2.4 billion). Spokesmen for Airbus and Dassault declined to comment. Airbus said in October that it planned to offload the remaining shares by the end of this year as it overhauls its portfolio and sells assets.


The company sold a 17.5 percent holding in family-controlled Dassault Aviation, which makes Rafale warplanes and Falcon business jets, in 2015, reaping a 697-million euro gain. So far this year, Airbus has also sold its satellite communication business to Apax Partners and its defense electronics business to KKR & Co.

Selling Down
Airbus began cutting its stake of about 46 percent in Dassault in November 2014, reducing the holding it inherited from the French state via one of its predecessor companies more than a decade ago. Airbus had never reaped synergies by working with Dassault, keeping the shares only as a financial investment.

Airbus then sold an additional stake in March 2015, cutting its holding to 24.6 percent and offloading 1.61 million shares, using the proceeds to fund growth. Some 71 percent of those shares were sold to institutional investors for 1,030 euros a share and the remainder to Dassault for 980 euros apiece, giving the total transaction a value of 1.64 billion euros.

Dassault’s shares fell 5.20 euros to 967.05 euros in Paris trading Wednesday. The stock had declined 16 percent this year. Airbus rose 10 euro cents to 53.61 euros.


Jet Sales
Dassault gets about two-thirds of its sales from corporate jets, an industry that’s fared poorly in the last few years.

Sales of new, private aircraft fell 16 percent in the first quarter from a year ago as demand weakened for the largest planes. Jet airplane billings had their biggest decline in almost five years, dropping to $3.53 billion in the quarter from $4.2 billion a year earlier, the General Aviation Manufacturers Association reportedin May.

The company’s had more success with sales of its Rafale fighter jets outside of France. Dassault won its first export order for Rafales in 2015, for 24 to Egypt. Then in May 2015 Qatar signed a contract for another two dozen.

 

[sasum]

Airbus Close to Selling Rest of Stake in Dassault Aviation

Andrea Rothman
June 8, 2016 —


Airbus Group SE is close to selling off its remaining holding in Dassault Aviation SA as the European aircraft maker disposes of assets to focus on its core businesses, people familiar with the matter said.

Airbus is working with advisers, and a sale could come as soon as this week, the people said, asking not to be named because the deliberations are private. No final decision has been made and the timing could change, the people said.

Airbus held 23.6 percent of Dassault Aviation as of April 3, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. That holding has a market value of about 2.1 billion euros ($2.4 billion). Spokesmen for Airbus and Dassault declined to comment. Airbus said in October that it planned to offload the remaining shares by the end of this year as it overhauls its portfolio and sells assets.


The company sold a 17.5 percent holding in family-controlled Dassault Aviation, which makes Rafale warplanes and Falcon business jets, in 2015, reaping a 697-million euro gain. So far this year, Airbus has also sold its satellite communication business to Apax Partners and its defense electronics business to KKR & Co.

Selling Down
Airbus began cutting its stake of about 46 percent in Dassault in November 2014, reducing the holding it inherited from the French state via one of its predecessor companies more than a decade ago. Airbus had never reaped synergies by working with Dassault, keeping the shares only as a financial investment.

Airbus then sold an additional stake in March 2015, cutting its holding to 24.6 percent and offloading 1.61 million shares, using the proceeds to fund growth. Some 71 percent of those shares were sold to institutional investors for 1,030 euros a share and the remainder to Dassault for 980 euros apiece, giving the total transaction a value of 1.64 billion euros.

Dassault’s shares fell 5.20 euros to 967.05 euros in Paris trading Wednesday. The stock had declined 16 percent this year. Airbus rose 10 euro cents to 53.61 euros.


Jet Sales
Dassault gets about two-thirds of its sales from corporate jets, an industry that’s fared poorly in the last few years.

Sales of new, private aircraft fell 16 percent in the first quarter from a year ago as demand weakened for the largest planes. Jet airplane billings had their biggest decline in almost five years, dropping to $3.53 billion in the quarter from $4.2 billion a year earlier, the General Aviation Manufacturers Association reportedin May.

The company’s had more success with sales of its Rafale fighter jets outside of France. Dassault won its first export order for Rafales in 2015, for 24 to Egypt. Then in May 2015 Qatar signed a contract for another two dozen.

Dassault Aviation scrip closed at €985. It seems, buy-back from Airbus has not affected its market value. Once, India deal is inked, it will move up sharply. Btw, are you a share-holder of Dassault Aviation ?

 

[Tactical Frog]

Source for above is http://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...to-selling-rest-of-stake-in-dassault-aviation

Dassault Aviation scrip closed at €985. It seems, buy-back from Airbus has not affected its market value. Once, India deal is inked, it will move up sharply. Btw, are you a share-holder of Dassault Aviation ?

Yes ! My stake is microscopic

But I am sceptical about a sharp rise over a long period. Business jets are in trouble. Also, not the " mother of all deals " anymore ! Probably 10 % in one day though.

 

[BON PLAN]

Source : https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/elta-cements-radar-status-on-tejas-fighter-425540/

===================================

Meanwhile LRDE's Uttam specs displayed at Defexpo were 150km (up from the original 100km).

Just expecting it is powerfull..... because on the other side it is uggly.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

What powerful ?, What uggly and other side ..

Just expecting it is powerfull..... because on the other side it is uggly.

 

[BON PLAN]

What powerful ?, What uggly and other side ..

The AESA radar.
I hope it is a nice and effective product because it looks like a bread toaster.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

The AESA radar.
I hope it is a nice and effective product because it looks like a bread toaster.

Unfortunately looks of rafale didn't help in its performance nor its sales

 

[Rushil51]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/punja...ys-parrikar/story-ZfS4wWHzMzaImHG8a5RyhP.html

Talking about the Union government’s “Make in India” initiative in the defence sector, Parrikar said that indigenous Tejas had been inducted and a proposal was afoot to manufacture twin engine fighter aircraft in partnership with a foreign company.

Connect the dots, it is more than obvious that Rafales will be manufactured India, apart from that deal of 36 aircraft. (Unless he meant FGFA which does not have even a prototype yet)

Safe to say mother of all deals never really died, was just modified a little.

 

[harsh]

I do not know how india is going to pay such a huge money for just 36 aircrafts.

But one thing is sure

rafale is MRCA OF THE WORLD

MRCA stands for

Most rejected combat aircraft.
This plane is get rejected from every competition. .......
some time hard lobbying and bribe make them but then again they are square to one.
they are completely rejected everywhere and partially rejected in india ( because of Italian secret).

This plane is true MRCA.

 

[tejas warrior]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/punja...ys-parrikar/story-ZfS4wWHzMzaImHG8a5RyhP.html




Connect the dots, it is more than obvious that Rafales will be manufactured India, apart from that deal of 36 aircraft. (Unless he meant FGFA which does not have even a prototype yet)

Safe to say mother of all deals never really died, was just modified a little.

Well, FGFA is quite possible b'cos in one of interviews he had mentioned "another twin engine fighter" !!

 

[sasum]

Connect the dots, it is more than obvious that Rafales will be manufactured India, apart from that deal of 36 aircraft.

Rafale will never be manufactured in India. 36 off-the-shelf purchase will end the story. If a foreign player has to be roped in, it will have to involve significant tech transfer, particularly in the area of jet turbine. Most probably, it will be an US aircraft with GE engine manufactured locally.
Having said that, I must say whatever Parrikkar says has to be taken with a pinch of salt. He indulges in loose talks.

 

[akk]

Exactly. There is nothing concrete to parriker's credit.
All talk only.
Not even LCA. It remains on paper. 2 aircrafts in 3 years.
worse than Antony. Sorry

 

[tejas warrior]

Not even LCA. It remains on paper. 2 aircrafts in 3 years.

Fighters are not produced in a couple of days.. It's normal for all aircraft production companies to take around 3 years to increase OR start production once order is received. From 2016 , you will see gradual increase in no being produced.

It's take time to create a stable production line.

 

[BON PLAN]

I do not know how india is going to pay such a huge money for just 36 aircrafts.

But one thing is sure

rafale is MRCA OF THE WORLD

MRCA stands for

Most rejected combat aircraft.
This plane is get rejected from every competition. .......
some time hard lobbying and bribe make them but then again they are square to one.
they are completely rejected everywhere and partially rejected in india ( because of Italian secret).

This plane is true MRCA.

Rafale win quite all the technical eval (Swiss, Korea, India (with EF), EAU, Brazil). Second in NL against a paper F35.
After it is a high level political decision. And France can't get such a umbrella US can.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale will never be manufactured in India. 36 off-the-shelf purchase will end the story. If a foreign player has to be roped in, it will have to involve significant tech transfer, particularly in the area of jet turbine. Most probably, it will be an US aircraft with GE engine manufactured locally.
Having said that, I must say whatever Parrikkar says has to be taken with a pinch of salt. He indulges in loose talks.

Just have to wait.... We will all together see what happend. For now it is SciFi....

 

[BON PLAN]

And if Egypt was buying 12 more Rafale in 2016 ...
Michel Cabirol | 15/06/2016, 6:56 La Tribune

The honeymoon in the field of armaments continues between Cairo and Paris . In the wake of the visit of François Hollande in Egypt in April , negotiations between the Egyptian army and Dassault Aviation have started to purchase twelve optional Rafale for the contract signed in February 2015, according to several sources .
The tricolor manufacturer has even submitted a bid to the Egyptians , according to our information.
Some sources close to the interviewed by La Tribune consider possible signing of the contract before the end of the year.


Michel Cabirol was the first journalist to speak about Egypt Rafale sale in 2014 ....

 

[WolfPack86]

According to reports, DM Manohar Parrikar is negotiating hard with Dassault for a better offer on Rafale deal.

The media hype about alternate offers for the remaining 90 fighters (from the initial 126 jet MMRCA requirement) is being created in order to strong arm and negotiate a better package from the French. Sources have expressed confidence that India will push for the total 126+ Rafales in two tranches, one of 36 (assembled in Merignac) and another of 90+ jets (under Make In India with full ToT). Naval Rafales are also being negotiated for Navy’s next CATOBAR aircraft carrier.

Due to the dwindling numbers of fighter in the fleet, a follow on order for Rafales in additional tranches is also being considered (requirement after the 126+ figure). But the competition are lobbying for filling this shortfall as well by offering competitive packages. At the forefront is Lockheed Martin, who is actively pushing for the F-16 and F-35 jets and may even rope in Israeli companies for customization of the jets. The F-35s are being offered by citing the capability of the pilots to control drones from the its cockpit.

Talks are also ongoing with France/Dassault to get Neuron UCAV package for AURA program

 

[Sam Biswas]

According to reports, DM Manohar Parrikar is negotiating hard with Dassault for a better offer on Rafale deal.

The media hype about alternate offers for the remaining 90 fighters (from the initial 126 jet MMRCA requirement) is being created in order to strong arm and negotiate a better package from the French. Sources have expressed confidence that India will push for the total 126+ Rafales in two tranches, one of 36 (assembled in Merignac) and another of 90+ jets (under Make In India with full ToT). Naval Rafales are also being negotiated for Navy’s next CATOBAR aircraft carrier.

This is what they call pipe dream. France is in a terrible financial shape with a very lazy work force, a lot worse than India. They are angling for lots of cash for a few Rafales. They simply could not afford to give India TOT and Make in India manufacturing. If Mr. Parrikar is hoping for that, it is simply not happening. Either India has to spend approximately $30 billion to buy 126 Rafales made in Merignac or look for another aircraft and get TOT and Make in India. India should go for Gripen or F/A-18 and of course FGFA unless it wants to waste another 10 years flying back and forth to Paris and consuming a lot French wine.

 

[WolfPack86]

A proposal is afoot to manufacture twin engine fighter aircraft in partnership with a foreign company :- Defence Minister