Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

News from La Tribune, To day.

Doha (Qatar) wants F-15 Finally , Qatar did the forcing to the United States to buy thirty F-15 after the acquisition of 24 Rafale in May 2015. All will depend on the approval of the US Congress . Otherwise , Doha has a plan B which involves the purchase of Typhoon to diversify its supplies of weapons. In addition , Qatar has recently mentioned for the first time in the presence of the French authorities the exercise of the option to acquire an additional 12 Rafale. A seductive promise for Paris ...


12 more for Egypt, 12 more for Qatar....... it smells good.

 

[BON PLAN]

France is in a terrible financial shape with a very lazy work force, a lot worse than India. They are angling for lots of cash for a few Rafales.

As an average American, you simply don't know what you say. France is far less indebted than GB, your small brother.
Lazy fork force ? We are one of the country where people work less, but work WELL. Our productivity is one of the best of the world.

 

[Sam Biswas]

I go to France frequently. You have a great country with all those old historic buildings and roads. But your country has been in a decline for a long time. Your country is trying to make a lot of money from India and Egypt and Qatar etc. to solve your financial problems. Your country is not in a position to help anyone. India is at fault to think they will get TOT and Make in India from France, a country with poor finances and poor work force. Your country is no Germany. Dussault is no Boeing either. Your country is best in the world in making Cheese, Wine, Jams and Jellies. I love all those and your restaurants; but not your aircrafts.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale deal to be finalized soon, says Parrikar
Jun 17, 5:05 pm

Bengaluru (Karnataka), June 17 (ANI): Union Defence MinisterManohar Parrikar on Friday said the negotiations to buy 36 Rafale fighter jets were "on path of coming to conclusion".

Both sides hoped to wrap up the strategic order during French President Francois Hollande's visit for the Republic Day celebrations in January this year, but bargaining on price stalled a final result.

"When we have waited for 15-16 years. I think we are now on path of coming to conclusion," Parrikar told reporters in the Bengaluru after witnessing the inaugural flight session of indigenously built aircraft Hindustan Turbo Trainer 40 (HTT 40).

HTT-40 is a new basic training aircraft developed by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) for the Indian Air Force.

Parrikar said the two sides were yet to arrive at a decision on pricing.

"It's a big purchase we have to be careful and every 0.1 percent savings itself is a hundreds of crores. So let the exercise be done with some patience," he said.

Hollande and Prime Minister Narendra Modi intervened in the troubled Rafale procurement last year, ordering government-to-government talks after commercial negotiations with Dassault had collapsed.

The leaders agreed to scale back an original plan to buy 126 Rafale planes to just 36 in fly-away condition to meet the Indian Air Force's urgent needs as it faces an assertive China and long-time foe Pakistan. (ANI)

 

[BON PLAN]

I go to France frequently. You have a great country with all those old historic buildings and roads. But your country has been in a decline for a long time. Your country is trying to make a lot of money from India and Egypt and Qatar etc. to solve your financial problems. Your country is not in a position to help anyone. India is at fault to think they will get TOT and Make in India from France, a country with poor finances and poor work force. Your country is no Germany. Dussault is no Boeing either. Your country is best in the world in making Cheese, Wine, Jams and Jellies. I love all those and your restaurants; but not your aircrafts.

Dear Sam
If France only relied on Rafale sales to cover our debt.... it will take centurieSSS. It's mainly a question of sovereignty and influence.
Dassault is not Boeing, but Airbus, mainly a french entity, is.
As Rand Corporation said, Dassault is the only company able to match with US ones in fighter industry and perf.
You all are incredulos to see a 11000 employees company able to developp top class product. Not only on fighter market, but also on business jet, engineering, earlier on missile... This is called "le génie français".

 

[Tactical Frog]

I am sure one day Rafale will render even more services !

 

[SajeevJino]

Whenever press asks the status of Rafale, the idiot def minister says, its in advanced stage should be concluded within four weeks

And we heating this since he sworn

 

[sasum]

A cabinet reshuffle is in the offing. Grapevine is that either Sushma Swaraj or Piyush Goyal may get the Defence portfolio. Parriker is more interested in Goa politics. He may actually go back by the year-end. As DM, he is out of sorts. Modi is also not too pleased with his lacklusture performance in forging a strong US-India defence industrial partnership for which Modi made considerable ground-work single-handedly in 2014-15.
As for Rafale, Modi is not particularly pleased the way it was short-listed by technical evaluation committee. One has to see the way he downsized the deal from 126 to 36 as soon as he assumed office. This clearly shows his bias against Rafale. There is also an element of US pressure. If India has to enter a strategic partnership with US on the lines of UK, she will have to junk Rafale. And India certainly can not distance from US in the light of heightened animosity with China. To be blunt, Rafale does'nt fit into the Indian scheme of things. Moreover, Dassault as a Corporate entity is on weak grounds. Its ability to support, service and provide spares for 10 yesrs is questionable. It may merge with a bigger entity in 3-4 years. In that case Rafale deal will have to be reworked again.

 

[Tactical Frog]

A cabinet reshuffle is in the offing. Grapevine is that either Sushma Swaraj or Piyush Goyal may get the Defence portfolio. Parriker is more interested in Goa politics. He may actually go back by the year-end. As DM, he is out of sorts. Modi is also not too pleased with his lacklusture performance in forging a strong US-India defence industrial partnership for which Modi made considerable ground-work single-handedly in 2014-15.
As for Rafale, Modi is not particularly pleased the way it was short-listed by technical evaluation committee. One has to see the way he downsized the deal from 126 to 36 as soon as he assumed office. This clearly shows his bias against Rafale. There is also an element of US pressure. If India has to enter a strategic partnership with US on the lines of UK, she will have to junk Rafale. And India certainly can not distance from US in the light of heightened animosity with China. To be blunt, Rafale does'nt fit into the Indian scheme of things. Moreover, Dassault as a Corporate entity is on weak grounds. Its ability to support, service and provide spares for 10 yesrs is questionable. It may merge with a bigger entity in 3-4 years. In that case Rafale deal will have to be reworked again.

Junking Rafale just to please Americans ? Oh come on .. there are a hundred ways to give biscuits to Americans. Buying Predators is one.
About services and spares you must be kidding ... there are some 150 Rafale in service in France alone. They need spare parts too , for the next 25 years at least.

 

[Zebra]

A proposal is afoot to manufacture twin engine fighter aircraft in partnership with a foreign company :- Defence Minister

36 Rafales + Follow On Rafales built in France are a sure shot

I don't think so.

Lets see though.

 

[smestarz]

The Discussions for Rafale is in advanced stage and its stuck there.

RE: the nice updates.
Parrikar is not out of favour nor NaMo has any issues with Parrikar, since if the decision has to be taken then NaMo can just tell Parrikar to push it. Both NaMo and Parrikar are waiting for their own sweet time. Modi has to ensure good marketing of India and to get the resources and position needed (NSG membership and UNSC seat) Would India buy the UNSC seat with 36 Rafales that seems to be the question, Or maybe Egypt and Qatar already ensured that FRANCE vetos indians UNSC position by buying Rafales.

There are many pros and cons here

DM is focusing on the present projects FGFA and Tejas, and also AMCA for future (and its engines) and in these scheme of things, France really does not have a role.. So would GoI buy Rafales and hamper its position and finance?

Whenever press asks the status of Rafale, the idiot def minister says, its in advanced stage should be concluded within four weeks

And we heating this since he sworn

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Junking Rafale just to please Americans ? Oh come on .. there are a hundred ways to give biscuits to Americans. Buying Predators is one.
About services and spares you must be kidding ... there are some 150 Rafale in service in France alone. They need spare parts too , for the next 25 years at least.

Come on Monday
Take your 36 biscuits and go away ( if you can get them )

 

[BON PLAN]

“The final decision on acquiring Rafale medium multi-role fighter aircraft for the IAF could be taken after six weeks, Mr. Parrikar said.

The price negotiation teams of Indian and French sides have concluded their discussions. “I expect to get the report of the Indian team next week about the finally agreed figure. Once the [Defence] Ministry analyses it, it will go to the government. After that, it may take another four or five weeks for the government to officially come to a conclusion,” the Minister said.

The deal now being part of an inter-governmental agreement, the Centre can iron out any disagreement points; Mr. Parikkar told a news conference after witnessing the inaugural flight of the basic trainer aircraft, HTT-40.

"We have to be careful as it is a big purchase in the range of Rs. 40,000-50,000 crore. Every small saving will mean a few hundred crores of rupees. It has taken around 15 years. Let the exercise be done with some patience," Mr. Parikkar said.

In a revised plan, the Modi government last January signed a deal with France to buy 36 of the fighters built by Dassault of France.

About the IAF's fleet scene, Mr. Parikkar said the plan was to have eight to ten squadrons of the indigenously developed light combat aircraft (LCA), beyond the current plan to acquire 120 LCAs.

 

[BON PLAN]

Dassault as a Corporate entity is on weak grounds. Its ability to support, service and provide spares for 10 yesrs is questionable. It may merge with a bigger entity in 3-4 years

? Have you a sole source for that ?
Dassault has a lot of cash, earned a lot of money, sufferef already a lot of crisis, it is a pure private company, earned by Dassault familly and french state. Even Airbus sold its stakes because they can do nothing even with a very high level of stakes.

SO : ABSOLUTELY NO RISK TO MERGE OR TO BE SELLED.

 

[BON PLAN]

there are a hundred ways to give biscuits to Americans. Buying Predators is one.

Indians seemed to prefer Avenger. between 100 to 250. A big biscuit !

And india already baught P8I, Apache helo

 

[sasum]

? Have you a sole source for that ?
Dassault has a lot of cash, earned a lot of money, sufferef already a lot of crisis, it is a pure private company, earned by Dassault familly and french state. Even Airbus sold its stakes because they can do nothing even with a very high level of stakes.

SO : ABSOLUTELY NO RISK TO MERGE OR TO BE SELLED.

BUYING RAFALE, THAN BETTER BUY DASSAULT COMPANY
Dr Swamy alleges that the Rafale deal had been privately negotiated between two sisters of Sonia Gandhi and Carla Bruni, the wife of the former French President. Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts.

Dr Subramanian Swamy has asked Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to sign any deal with French company Dasault for buying Rafale warplanes. “Dassault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dassault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective,” Dr Swamy said in a statement.

Further Warned that he may have to file a public interest litigation (PIL), if, “the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal”, Dr Swamy also levels some serious allegations about how the deal had been negotiated with the previous government.
Swamy's statement below:

I urge the Prime Minister not to finalize the Rafale Aircraft Deal with France. The deal originally was negotiated by the previous UPA Government.

There are two major issues with the Rafale Aircraft Deal which if clinched would embarrass the BJP Government at the Centre. The first is that Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts. Some countries have cancelled contracts after signing an MoU with Dasault, the manufacturers, after carrying out a trial of the plane, for example, Switzerland.

The Rafale performance of Libya and Egypt turned out to be worst of all the aircrafts which were deployed by the allies liberating the countries from tyranny.

The second issue is that the present Rafale Deal negotiated was de-facto a privately negotiated deal between the wife of the former French President Ms Carla Bruni, who is an Italian with two Italian sisters of Ms Sonia Gandhi, namely Ms Anushka and Ms Nadia, and is a corrupt deal to the core.

Dasault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dasault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective.

If the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal, then I will have no option but to approach the Court in a PIL to get it set aside.
@Nuvneet Kundu may be having more information

https://sagarmedianews.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/buying-rafale-than-better-buy-dassault-company/

 

[Tactical Frog]

BUYING RAFALE, THAN BETTER BUY DASSAULT COMPANY
Dr Swamy alleges that the Rafale deal had been privately negotiated between two sisters of Sonia Gandhi and Carla Bruni, the wife of the former French President. Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts.

Dr Subramanian Swamy has asked Prime Minister Narendra Modi not to sign any deal with French company Dasault for buying Rafale warplanes. “Dassault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dassault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective,” Dr Swamy said in a statement.

Further Warned that he may have to file a public interest litigation (PIL), if, “the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal”, Dr Swamy also levels some serious allegations about how the deal had been negotiated with the previous government.
Swamy's statement below:

I urge the Prime Minister not to finalize the Rafale Aircraft Deal with France. The deal originally was negotiated by the previous UPA Government.

There are two major issues with the Rafale Aircraft Deal which if clinched would embarrass the BJP Government at the Centre. The first is that Rafale is a less fuel efficient aircraft and lacking in essential performance characteristics because of which no country in the world has agreed to buy these aircrafts. Some countries have cancelled contracts after signing an MoU with Dasault, the manufacturers, after carrying out a trial of the plane, for example, Switzerland.

The Rafale performance of Libya and Egypt turned out to be worst of all the aircrafts which were deployed by the allies liberating the countries from tyranny.

The second issue is that the present Rafale Deal negotiated was de-facto a privately negotiated deal between the wife of the former French President Ms Carla Bruni, who is an Italian with two Italian sisters of Ms Sonia Gandhi, namely Ms Anushka and Ms Nadia, and is a corrupt deal to the core.

Dasault will go bankrupt if no country buys the Rafale and therefore if we want to oblige the French it is better to buy Dasault company itself rather than their planes, as it will be more beneficial and cost effective.

If the Prime Minister for some other compulsion anyway decides to go ahead with the deal, then I will have no option but to approach the Court in a PIL to get it set aside.
@Nuvneet Kundu may be having more information

https://sagarmedianews.wordpress.com/2015/04/11/buying-rafale-than-better-buy-dassault-company/

Almost impossible to concentrate so much BS in so little space ... a real gem. Just wondering, has anyone informed Dr Swamy that Dassault was not for sale ?

 

[sasum]

? Have you a sole source for that ?
Dassault has a lot of cash, earned a lot of money, sufferef already a lot of crisis, it is a pure private company, earned by Dassault familly and french state. Even Airbus sold its stakes because they can do nothing even with a very high level of stakes.

SO : ABSOLUTELY NO RISK TO MERGE OR TO BE SELLED.

As of May 2016, Dassault Aviation's Market Capitalisation is $10.1 billion, according to Forbes. Why India or any other country should buy 36 jets (which may materialize after 4-5 years) for $8+ billion when they can buy up the company itself for $10 billion pronto?

 

[WolfPack86]

Rafale Deal To Be Finalized Soon

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Soon ,............,....
...............,...........................