Know Your 'Rafale'

[LETHALFORCE]

After Stealth, the most lethal aspects are Radar, Weapons, Electronics and last, but not the least - Pilot Training! Remember Folklands war the RN Pilots flying Carrier Harriers won against Mirage IIIs of Argentinian Air Force.

There were a lot of dirty games played during that war with missile codes(exocets etc...)

 

[trackwhack]

I have stated, posted several facts here and all you do is like a wanker just talk in platitudes. Every claim you have made about the F35 is Bs or half truths. Even you numbers on combat radius are only for one variant. Wanker like you claimed F35 is shutting down or about to and I showed you an article where Japan just awarded it' s contract after its trails- that included euro fighter, Rafael and others , 60 days ago. There are close to 3000 bookings for it already.

You are a bullshzit artist here probably trying to over compensate for that 4 feet frame of yours in real life. Just like the claim that I'm not worth debating , yet you chase every post I make to exemplify the mental midget that you are.

Again you post bullshit. There are zero bookings for the F 35. The 2400 number is what was planned for the US. If we go by recent comments and performance even 200 entering service will be an achievement. And forget about the European partners buying any planes. They are scrambling for funds to buy food. Of course you will arm twist the Japs and a few of your 'allies' to buy some planes but that is hardly a sign of worthiness of the overpriced white elephant that the F 35 is going to turn out to be.

The US's best option is to fix the F 22 and trim its Airforce numbers to 1000 combat aircraft, retain the SH for the Navy and the like. F 35 will send the US back 30 years. So good luck if you think we are buying that shitpile.

 

[JayATL]

The only people in the French public that aren't happy are people with intense hatred for Sarkozy. This deal is hailed as saving the French fighter industry. You should have seen the back slapping in the Senate yesterday.

Funny enough you say this- I have always had the opinion that it's an European trait based on the fact that they are not very patriotic. Allow me to explain. My Europeans friends snicker at us that we chant " USA USA " a lot. I have been told by the Brits that their flag waving is done by skin heads mostly and is looked down upon , while in the US we proudly wave our flag and sing the national anthem . This attitude by the French shows that it's not country first but personal politics that is prevelant as a national fiber as per my personal experice with the Europeans

 

[ace009]

Importantce

Why are people surprised that any losing party, be it Brits or anyone will voice their disappointment and try to spin it to lower the the threshold of their political pain. I expect the immature posters to get riled up by the Brits whining . But this reaction happens with every losing company in some form or other . Some stronger than others.

Also can anyone tell me , other than perhaps Mig 35, understanding your regional theater... Which of the aircrafts in the tender would not have established air superiority over pak and china on technological grounds? India could have gone in for any aircraft is my thought. True?

Finally, what makes an aircraft lethal other than stealth ? Is it the airframe or the electronics, radar and weapons package?

After Stealth, the most lethal aspects are Radar, Weapons, Electronics and last, but not the least - Pilot Training! Remember Falklands war the RN Pilots flying Carrier Harriers won against Mirage IIIs of Argentinian Air Force.

 

[Zoravar]

Dude rafale one but there are going to be contract negotitations thats why this confusion

 

[Armand2REP]

Calling EFT piece of crap is too much. If it was so bad, IAF would've never shortlisted it. Lets not put our tongue whichever way it desires. Both of the fighter were good but France was able to sweeten the deal with political leverages.

Puleez... France is one country against four. It doesn't have any political leverage. The tender was decided without politics since the rest of Europe, the US and Russia lost. The selection committee reads everything we do plus the actual offer, they know the problems with the Typhoon. A big reason not to select it is all the nonsense that goes along with a consortium. The process to shortlist only took into account performance, not industrial considerations which is what Rafale won in the end.

 

[SPIEZ]

Puleez... France is one country against four. It doesn't have any political leverage. The tender was decided without politics since the rest of Europe, the US and Russia lost. The selection committee reads everything we do plus the actual offer, they know the problems with the Typhoon. A big reason not to select it is all the nonsense that goes along with a consortium. The process to shortlist only took into account performance, not industrial considerations which is what Rafale won in the end.

What about the UN seat ? And the nuclear technology (and support) France was giving

 

[JayATL]

This is the first time I can remember that US had 3 planes offered rejected??
Obama is a failure for the US defense industry.

Do you know of the dollars (tens of billions) of military sales with India under this administration? Do you also know that the manufactures are private entities and Obama , other allow more on the TOT , really not him but congressional approval is fequired, is not responsible on how the aircrafts compare ?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Do you know of the dollars (tens of billions) of military sales with India under this administration? Do you also know that the manufactures are private entities and Obama , other allow more on the TOT , really not him but congressional approval is fequired, is not responsible on how the aircrafts compare ?

90% of the deals, C-17,P-8I etc... were done under Bush. Obama has done diddly squat like he has for the country.
If i am wrong post the sales to India under Obama. Even the Boeing deal for planes to India was cut by India under
Obama.


http://www.aviationbrief.com/?p=4309
Air India To Cut Boeing 787 Order

 

[JAISWAL]

BAE Systems jobs fears as India looks set to reject Eurofighter Typhoon
.
.
BAE Systems jobs fears as India looks set to reject Eurofighter Typhoon | Business | guardian.co.uk
.

.
.
Union leaders have voiced fears about the job implications of moves by the Indian government to give preferred bidder status to a French firm for a lucrative order for fighte planes.
BAE Systems had been hoping to partly assemble 126 Eurofighter Typhoon jets at Warton and Samlesbury in Lancashire for the Indian air force.
India's government has signalled that French firm
Dassault put in a lower bid with its Rafale jets,
although no formal statement has been made.
Sources at BAE said it was "far from a done deal"
and that no contract has been awarded to
Dassault.
A company spokesman said: "BAE Systems
notes that Eurofighter Typhoon has not been
assessed as the lowest-priced compliant bidder
by the Indian ministry of defence at this stage of
the tendering process for supply of its new
medium multi-role combat aircraft.
"Our partner, Cassidian, submitted an attractive
and competitive proposal to supply Eurofighter
Typhoon, the world's most modern medium
multi-role combat aircraft available today.
"We believe Eurofighter Typhoon offers the best
military, industrial and economic solution for
India.
"We will continue to support the Indian customer
and its evaluation process and work with our
European partner companies and their respective
governments to seek to understand the basis of
the announcement."
Unite warned the selection of a French fighter
aircraft for the multibillion-pound contract could
have serious implications for BAE Systems and
the UK aerospace industry.
The union's national officer, Ian Waddell, said:
"We are seeking confirmation from BAE Systems
that Rafale has been selected as their preferred
fighter by India.
"The Typhoon is a superb aircraft which supports
thousands of highly skilled jobs in the UK, both at
BAE Systems and in the supply chain.
"We are concerned about the serious implications
this decision may have and want urgent talks
with the company about future plans for the
workforce.
"There are other export orders to be won and it is
critical that the company maintains its
commitment to Typhoon despite this setback."
The CSEU, an umbrella body for manufacturing
unions, is meeting the MoD's procurement
minister, Peter Luff, next week and the unions will
raise the issue as a priority.
Unite said it will continue to concentrate its efforts
to deal with the 3,000 potential redundancies at
BAE Systems at Brough, Samlesbury and
Warton, which were announced late last year.

 

[nrj]

Puleez... France is one country against four. It doesn't have any political leverage. The tender was decided without politics since the rest of Europe, the US and Russia lost. The selection committee reads everything we do plus the actual offer, they know the problems with the Typhoon. A big reason not to select it is all the nonsense that goes along with a consortium. The process to shortlist only took into account performance, not industrial considerations which is what Rafale won in the end.

1. Out of those four countries, 2 are bankrupt, UK works on US interests & Germany is not willing to co-operate on UNSC bid. France offer better political terms than others, since being UNSC member.

2. If EFT was crap, IAF would have never shortlisted it. Face the fact.

3. Its foolish to think that political equation was not taken into consideration & deal was only of commercial interest.

 

[Armand2REP]

Funny enough you say this- I have always had the opinion that it's an European trait based on the fact that they are not very patriotic. Allow me to explain. My Europeans friends snicker at us that we chant " USA USA " a lot. I have been told by the Brits that their flag waving is done by skin heads mostly and is looked down upon , while in the US we proudly wave our flag and sing the national anthem . This attitude by the French shows that it's not country first but personal politics that is prevelant as a national fiber as per my personal experice with the Europeans

France doesn't have a problem selling arms. It is national industrial policy and the people get upset when it doesn't happen. Apparently you don't read the hundreds of French articles since Rafale came on the export market bytching over not getting a sale. French patriotism is far more refined than the US rednecks, instead of a beer and shotgun screaming yeah haw! French drink wine and eat cheese toasting to Viva la France!

 

[utubekhiladi]

Will urge India to reconsider Dassault Rafale fighter deal: British Prime Minister David Cameron

Will urge India to reconsider Dassault Rafale fighter deal: British Prime Minister David Cameron - The Times of India

 

[JayATL]

Again you post bullshit. There are zero bookings for the F 35. The 2400 number is what was planned for the US. If we go by recent comments and performance even 200 entering service will be an achievement. And forget about the European partners buying any planes. They are scrambling for funds to buy food. Of course you will arm twist the Japs and a few of your 'allies' to buy some planes but that is hardly a sign of worthiness of the overpriced white elephant that the F 35 is going to turn out to be.

The US's best option is to fix the F 22 and trim its Airforce numbers to 1000 combat aircraft, retain the SH for the Navy and the like. F 35 will send the US back 30 years. So good luck if you think we are buying that shitpile.

I told you are a mental midget. You don't even know that Japan has already awarded , not will award , the F35 as the winner. That all your talk is hot air with whacked out speculations. None of it is based on facts. How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

 

[LETHALFORCE]

1. Out of those four countries, 2 are bankrupt, UK works on US interests & Germany is not willing to co-operate on UNSC bid. France offer better political terms than others, since being UNSC member.

2. If EFT was crap, IAF would have never shortlisted it. Face the fact.

3. Its foolish to think that political equation was not taken into consideration & deal was only of commercial interest.

UK is also on the bankruptcy list. The EF is a good plane but TOT would have been impossible with 4
countries involved. Especially a few that have good relations with China and Pak. Germany also rejected
India for NSG membership and half of the 4 were opposed to the Indian nuclear deal by Bush.

 

[trackwhack]

I told you are a mental midget. You don't even know that Japan has already awarded , not will award , the F35 as the winner. That all your talk is hot air with whacked out speculations. None of it is based on facts. How many times were you dropped on your head as a child?

Mouthing off abuses and personal attacks dont add any street cred man. It only makes you look like a fool. You were the one who quoted 3000 bookings. Where in hell did you get 3000 booking for the F 35 from. Japan has decided to buy 40 planes.

Where is 40 and where is 3000. The US had planned 2400 planes. There is a motion to completely eliminate the F 35 B and C order and halve the F 35 A orders. That was before the plane started acting up and the Air Force started complaining. So good luck trying to get even 200 of these birds flying.

Now please, if you have any self esteem, show me credible news sources that say the F 35 has 3000 bookings.

 

[SPIEZ]

There were a lot of dirty games played during that war with missile codes(exocets etc...)

Further explanation please

 

[Armand2REP]

1. Out of those four countries, 2 are bankrupt, UK works on US interests & Germany is not willing to co-operate on UNSC bid. France offer better political terms than others, since being UNSC member.

The GDP of those countries is nearly 3X greater than France and they have a UNSC veto. They were represented by EADS and all the offsets they can offer. They lost to a little company like Dassault who offers one nation source and better ToT. India doesn't want to deal with Euro politics, they want a clean deal.

2. If EFT was crap, IAF would have never shortlisted it. Face the fact.

I didn't say it was crap, I said it was scrap. Referring to the large number of cannablised units.

3. Its foolish to think that political equation was not taken into consideration & deal was only of commercial interest.

The only political decision was deciding not to get involved in European politics.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Now that the Rafael won, anyone remember what was the technical detail that got Dassault disqualified earlier?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

General Palomeros: "The Rafale is the best aircraft in the world"

EXCLUSIVE. By the time New Delhi has selected the Rafale, General Jean-Paul Palomeros, Chief of Staff of the Air Force, told France-Soir in what the French intervention in Libya has demonstrated the qualities of the aircraft to potential buyers.

F-S: Is Operation Harmattan, Libya - during which the Rafale was involved - has played a decisive role in this export success?

Such a title is extremely rare in the French press, which generally favors self-flagellation lol.
General Jean-Paul Palomeros: It is clear that the success of the Air Force and the Rafale during Harmattan were studied by every army in the world. My counterparts in other countries want to talk with me. They are surprised that we were able to send the Rafale as quickly to perform all types of missions. This was a demonstration of the versatility of the aircraft.

F.-S. Can you elaborate on these missions?

J. Gal-PP: We had to both impose a flight ban over Libya, help ground forces against Gaddafi who were at the gates of Benghazi and obtain information on enemy military plan. On March 19, 2011, from the first patrol, these three objectives were achieved. In addition to the imposition of the no flight zone, we used our arms of precision and fed our data for the following tasks. Thanxs to its warning and protective ground/air systems, the Rafale was able to intervene without destroying in advance all the Libyan anti-aircraft facilities, including missiles ramps which for us was the most worrying threat.

F.-S. You have been directly involved in negotiations to sell the Rafale with the Indian authorities. What was your role alongside engineers, commercial and political and French?

J. Gal-PP: I play my role as Chief of Staff. The partnership with the Indian army is old. For years, we do exercises with the Indian Air Force (IAF) which uses Mirage 2000 an aircraft very much appreciated in its ranks. My role is that this relationship is maintained at the highest level, by promoting the qualities of our equipements and those of the training of our pilots.

F.-S. And for the Rafale, specifically?

J. Gal-PP: to show the operational qualities of the aircraft, its benefits in terms of availability and maintenance. The availability of the fleet is the responsibility of the Chief of Staff. It was 95% during Operation Harmattan. In this area, France has set a high bar. To maintain a Rafale continuously, we need seven or eight mechanics. For some of our competitors is almost twice. The cost of maintenance of the aircraft is thereby reduced. It was one of the essential criteria incorporated into the design of the aircraft.

F.-S. What is this sale going to change for the Air Force?

Gal J.-PP The main interest for us is to work with the armed forces of friendly countries which have the same weapons systems than ours. The Indian Air Force will bring us an original feedback that will allow us to develop the capacity of the unit. That's what happened with the crews of Qatari Mirages that participated with us in operations in Libya. Finally,by increasing the numbers, it will reduce production costs and maintenance. Yesterday, one explained that the Rafale was very expensive. He has demonstrated today that he is probably the best aircraft in the world and in the end, it is not expensive.


Google translated from:
Général Palomeros : "Le Rafale est le meilleur avion du monde" | France Soir