Know Your 'Rafale'

Kunal Biswas

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David Cameron disappointed over India jet-fighter deal

David Cameron expressed "disappointment" today that a French firm had beaten BAE Systems to become preferred bidder for a major fighter plane contract with India.But the Prime Minister insisted a final decision had not been taken, and he would do "everything" to help the defence giant win the business.
[...]
Asked about the issue at Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Cameron said Typhoon was a "superb aircraft, far better than Rafale"."Of course, I will do everything I can - as I have already - to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon, because I think it is such a good aircraft," he told MPs."The decision is obviously disappointing but it is about who the Indians have assessed as making the lowest bid and therefore asked to enter into further negotiations.
"They have not yet awarded the contract."He added: "We do not expect any job losses stemming from this decision and it does not rule out Typhoon for India."
From:
David Cameron disappointed over India jet-fighter deal - Business News - Business - The Independent


:rolleyes:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Indian Take Out
by Bill Sweetman; ARES Blog
India's decision in favor of the Dassault Rafale is a big deal. Not only is a 126-fighter order the biggest single sale in sight for a long time, but -- as long as the deal is closed and executed successfully -- it is a huge boost for the Rafale at a point where the fighter business is in flux, and after two notable setbacks for the French industry late last year.

Those setbacks were the United Arab Emirates' announcement at the Dubai air show that it was unhappy with the terms of the Rafale deal offered by France, and Switzerland's choice of the Gripen. The India win makes the latter look like small potatoes, while a signed-and-sealed deal with India covers many of the upgrades that were bones of contention in the protracted UAE negotiation.

For the same reason, Rafale's chances in Brazil have probably improved. But this could be a case of "be careful what you wish for". As I noted in last June's DTI:

The (India) program will be doing several things simultaneously: co-developing improvements such as an active electronically scanned array (AESA) radar and Meteor AAM integration; dealing with the obsolescence issues that are inevitable in long aircraft development cycles; transferring technology and launching joint indigenous production; and transplanting a very complex all-digital aircraft into the Indian air force, all on a tight timescale. If Rafale wins, and is also successful in Brazil, Dassault and its partners – Safran and Thales – will be doing much the same thing, 9,000 miles from India.

And, might I add, in an entirely different linguistic, cultural, political and economic environment. Bonne chance avec ca.

The win also follows the Libya campaign, where both the Typhoon and the Rafale were used. However, while the Typhoon was only multi-role thanks to a non-definitive, somewhat-MacGyvered targeting pod and weapon fit, Rafale had two variants of the fully integrated Sagem Hammer stand-off guided bomb (six of which can be carried on two pylons), with a third on the way, and provided near-real-time intelligence with the Areos long range oblique photography reconnaissance pod.

The decision is a big disappointment for Eurofighter, where my impression was that many people felt that they were headed for an India win, after Rafale's discomfiture in the UAE. And while Typhoon will still have more orders than Rafale in total, Eurofighter now has to return to persuading its sometimes ragged formation of partners -- two of them representing the I and S of PIGS -- to continue to fund the Captor-E active electronically scanned array radar and the rest of its multi-role evolution.

And if the Joint Strike Fighter plan to take over the rest of the world does not stay on track, what happens to European fighter aircraft could be very important well into the 2020s.
http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/blogs...entId=blogDest
 

JayATL

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dude relax.... no one said not to buy weapons from you.... what we dont want is to rely on you for the stuff which might take years for completion and those which you can you to arm twist us any time you want:tsk::tsk:.... see what happened to porkis :tsk::tsk:.....

Also do you honestly think we would have got all the ToT from you guys as we get from the french...????:playball::playball:
Who is comparing the French deal to begin with and why do you throw out platitudes about arm twisting and what happened to Pakistan as some warning that India could also face?

Are you aware of the geo political facts in your region? I have to ask if you guys even know what goes on went on in your region, given such silly talking points as submitted above.

How can you even compare the pak situation to India? They were and are "aid beggars" , they cost us taxpayer money. India is a trading partner. Pak got sanctions because they tested nuclear weapons, should not the US be looked at by indians as being fair across the table? After all if they were close to the US and US was anti India as you wise ones claim, then why would they sanction pak? Why refuse delivery of f-16's?

I want intelligent , critical debate, not some rabbit out of a hat claim of " we may get sanctioned" .

Tell me under what circumstances will India get sanctioned?

Will India test another nuclear weapon? Will India drop a nuclear weapon as a first strike on any country in a conventional war. Will India attack NATO. Give me an example where the US and world would drop sanctions on you. BTW, pak and India were sanctioned by the western world and not just the US for the nuke test. Your great pal Russia too joined in because had it not been for the US India nuclear pact, not one single country , including Russia, was willing to help out India on it's nuclear energy needs.

Those are facts and not platitudes. So you chill man and chill with facts and not platitudes.
 

trackwhack

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Do you ever post anything based on facts or ground realities? Do you expend an iota of fact other than pure unadulterated stupidity on every post? Is the some total of your post above ever going to rise above the 2nd grade childish banter of " hahaha I right you are wrong because I claim so" . Not only did you double down on that stupid whack is track claim of radius ( theory dreamt up by you and you only) . But you seem to have zero knowledge about the F35 aircraft or it's program, buyers and technical specs.

You on the other hand, like the Iranians and their propensity to make tall claims, are making your bed, betting on PAKFA which has yet to be a completed platform. What is also the mother of all stupidity coming out from that gas bag brain of yours, is that you agree that American electronic, radar and weapons package is far superior . Then how do you think that PAKFA will ever surpass American technology?

You postings makes you the ahemdinajad of these forums and the Baghdad bob to boot in that mix.
Jay, seriously, fk off man. You are blabberring your ass off without quoting a cent worth of facts or figures. You are not worth my time and at best you are nothing more than entertainment for most members here who love seeing a joker suffering from an identity crisis make a jackass of himself.

And yeah, we havent bought the F 35 and we wont. Because ass clowns like you dont sit on the panel that takes decisions on critical military hardware. Of course we will give you some business by purchasing some fat boeings to lift cargo. Just pray it takes Embraer a lot more than 10 years to become the vendor of choice for such aircraft too.
 

ace009

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Dailymail has the highest internet viewership of any newspaper in the world and it is conservative. And as compared to Brit tabloids, its a teeny bit more respectable.
Yeah - but only a teeny bit - it's respectability comes from the fact that it does not put it's reporters in toilets to "get news" - but put them outside with a boom mike ...
The Daily Mail is also just a teeny bit racist ...
It also has a history of supporting Facsism, Nazism, Conservative principles of England for the English etc etc ...
 
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JayATL

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Why are people surprised that any losing party, be it Brits or anyone will voice their disappointment and try to spin it to lower the the threshold of their political pain. I expect the immature posters to get riled up by the Brits whining . But this reaction happens with every losing company in some form or other . Some stronger than others.

Also can anyone tell me , other than perhaps Mig 35, understanding your regional theater... Which of the aircrafts in the tender would not have established air superiority over pak and china on technological grounds? India could have gone in for any aircraft is my thought. True?

Finally, what makes an aircraft lethal other than stealth ? Is it the airframe or the electronics, radar and weapons package?
 

trackwhack

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Yeah - but only a teeny bit - it's respectability comes from the fact that it does not put it's reporters in toilets to "get news" - but put them outside with a boom mike ...
The Daily Mail is also just a teeny bit racist ...
Which is why, watching them (both the newspaper and the readers) bitch and moan gives me immense pleasure. :pound:
 

Armand2REP

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LETHALFORCE

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The British are whining because their military infrastructure does not have money for the future this was a last hope
to save their crumbling infrastructure. This will put them well behind France and Germany possibly a decade?? They
have not been able to produce anything worthwhile in decades.
 

JayATL

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Jay, seriously, fk off man. You are blabberring your ass off without quoting a cent worth of facts or figures. You are not worth my time and at best you are nothing more than entertainment for most members here who love seeing a joker suffering from an identity crisis make a jackass of himself.

And yeah, we havent bought the F 35 and we wont. Because ass clowns like you dont sit on the panel that takes decisions on critical military hardware. Of course we will give you some business by purchasing some fat boeings to lift cargo. Just pray it takes Embraer a lot more than 10 years to become the vendor of choice for such aircraft too.
I have stated, posted several facts here and all you do is just talk in platitudes. Every claim you have made about the F35 is Bs or half truths. Even you numbers on combat radius are only for one variant. you claimed F35 is shutting down or about to and I showed you an article where Japan just awarded it' s contract after its trails- that included euro fighter, Rafael and others , 60 days ago. There are close to 3000 bookings for it already.
 

asianobserve

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This jet is already obsolete even before it's inducted into the IAF...
 

LETHALFORCE

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This is the first time I can remember that US had 3 planes offered rejected??
Obama is a failure for the US defense industry.
 

The Messiah

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Dailymail has the highest internet viewership of any newspaper in the world and it is conservative. And as compared to Brit tabloids, its a teeny bit more respectable.
dailymail is right wing conservative newspaper.

it is on par with fox news in usa for its biased news.
 

ace009

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Why are people surprised that any losing party, be it Brits or anyone will voice their disappointment and try to spin it to lower the the threshold of their political pain. I expect the immature posters to get riled up by the Brits whining . But this reaction happens with every losing company in some form or other . Some stronger than others.

Also can anyone tell me , other than perhaps Mig 35, understanding your regional theater... Which of the aircrafts in the tender would not have established air superiority over pak and china on technological grounds? India could have gone in for any aircraft is my thought. True?

Finally, what makes an aircraft lethal other than stealth ? Is it the airframe or the electronics, radar and weapons package?
After Stealth, the most lethal aspects are Radar, Weapons, Electronics and last, but not the least - Pilot Training! Remember Folklands war the RN Pilots flying Carrier Harriers won against Mirage IIIs of Argentinian Air Force.
 

JAISWAL

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British PM urges India to change mind on MMRCA
.
Downing Street is to try and persuade the Indian government to rethink its plans to buy Rafale fighter planes from France, rather than UK-backed Eurofighter Typhoons.


No 10 said it would be contacting Delhi to understand the reasons behind the decision to go with the French option.

There was some suggestion that the British might ask the European commission to examine whether EU state aid rules had been breached, but officials said it was premature to speak in those terms.

At prime minister's questions in the Commons, David Cameron sought to reassure Conservative MPs that the decision to give the French preferred bidder status would not mean job losses.

Asked about the issue at PMQs, Cameron said the Typhoon was a "superb aircraft, far better than Rafale".

"Of course, I will do everything I can – as I have already – to encourage the Indians to look at Typhoon, because I think it is such a good aircraft," he said.

"The decision is obviously disappointing, but it is about who the Indians have assessed as making the lowest bid and therefore asked to enter into further negotiations. They have not yet awarded the contract."

He added: "We do not expect any job losses stemming from this decision and it does not rule out Typhoon for India."

The announcement is a personal blow to Cameron, who led one of the largest ever business delegations to India to persaude the government of the value of British industry.

Further questions were raised by Tory MPs about the wisdom of the UK aid programme to India.
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Cameron looks to persuade India to rethink Eurofighter Typhoon deal | Business | The Guardian
 

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