Know Your 'Rafale'

[trackwhack]

Look the USN can use the F35s from their 11 aircraft carriers and USAF can use their bases in japan and taiwan which are very close to China against Chinese, But how can we(indians) do that unless we have some imaginary bases in the south china sea or the carriers ...??? any ideas how it can be done ....??? so why should we buy F35....

And how can we trust a country to provide us with fighters for SFC(nuclear forces) which loaded us with sanctions when we tested a nuclear device and is openly against us testing nuclear weapons... I dont think there is much logic there is it:confused2::confused2:????

I see you are new here. Good luck trying the logic card with Jay. :thumb:

 

[vanadium]

MMRCA was the hardest fought batlle in aviation history.

Phase 1 and 2 of the battle are over. Phase 3 is to start soon and is not yet won.
Recent history shows that Dassault is not particularly brilliant in this critical phase.

 

[H.A.]

I am still being entertained by the comments on the Daily mail.
** So this is 2012, where military companies are pleading with India to buy their fighter planes, to the extent of giving them hundreds of millions in aid (bribes) to help the cause. Compare this with 100 years ago, when the Indians were bowing down to the British Empire. How times have changed.

i said something similar on page 43....why cant they just accept the defeat and move on with life....and what aid are they talking about what was their intention when they gave us was it for peoples upliftment or was it specifically for this tender, if it was the latter then it serves you right.....were they bribing us....no thank you sir, we are not that corrupt that we will sell our motherland...

 

[SpArK]

Why are we discussing F-35??

US will never outsource the jobs of Boeing or LM to India...

All products we purchase from there are made in USA, transport and navy ones for eg..

Can we just move on to Rafale, please??

 

[JayATL]

No one has orders, they have expressed interest son. Show me credible sources that say they have placed orders. Even officials in India have said, hmm, interesting plane. That does not translate to orders. Of course these poor countries have unfortunately funded the junk mobile so they may buy a few, but there are no current orders. I am still waiting for you to show me evidence of you 3000 booking claim.

I alrady addressed the 2400 number that is on order by the Department of Defence. Respond to that rather than sounding like a broken radio repeating the same BS over and over again

Also, learn to read, I already stated 3 posts back that Japan has been arm twisted into buying it. For all I know your source of orders from Japan is from what I quoted 3 posts back.

You are one stubborn dumb kid I have to give you that . Did you not know that actual orders were placed by UK , Isrelis, Aussies ? Do you want me to babysit and provide more links that I have repeatedly done here showing actual orders again?

What do you base your clam upon that Japan got its arm twisted, bullied and forced into ordering F35? Where did that mental midget sitting in your head come up with that claim as to be true? What part of there is no aircraft besides F35 for the US being worked on , did you not comprehend? What the hell will we replace our 2400 aircraft need with? Understand that we are slwoing our ramp up, but the numbers needed are numbers needed because we are phasing out F18's .

I have learnt that you are bitter about the US because you been forced to work with us through your employer and that you are failing( no surprise) because of your incompetence - thus leading to your bitterness about America. My advice - Go open a chai Walla shop instead , those that hang around you are your caliber of folks whom would agree with that midget in your brain.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2011/12/20/3609020/foreign-orders-for-f-35-boost.html

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/canberra-to-review-f-35-delivery-schedule-367523/

http://www.ottawacitizen.com/news/Canada+will+joint+strike+fighter+matter+cost/5868742/story.html ( canda 65 already ordered)

 

[H.A.]

The Brits are showing their racist side once again. What aid are they talking about? India takes no aid. Why will a country ready to purchase fighters worth $20 billion ask for aid of $250 million. They have lost their brains too it seems.

wow this statement of yours makes me imagine those curly hair judges puling their hairs after hearing this news....

 

[Bangalorean]

Discussing with JayATL is always a pleasure.

 

[trackwhack]

You are one stubborn dumb kid I have to give you that . Did you not know that actual orders were placed by UK , Isrelis, Aussies ? Do you want me to babysit and provide more links that I have repeatedly done here showing actual orders again?

What do you base your clam upon that Japan got its arm twisted, bullied and forced into ordering F35? Where did that mental midget sitting in your head come up with that claim as to be true? What part of there is no aircraft besides F35 for the US being worked on , did you not comprehend? What the hell will we replace our 2400 aircraft need with?

I have learnt that you are bitter about the US because you been forced to work with us through your employer and that you are failing( no surprise) because of your incompetence - thus leading to your bitterness about America. My adice - Go open a chai Walla shop instead , those that hang around you are your caliber of folks whom would agree with that midget in your brain.

LOL, man up and admit that you got owned in the debate and that you posted farcical claims instead of getting personal and abusive in every single post of yours. There aren't any F 35 orders from any country as of now. Only the Japs have made kind of an offer which comes with the caveat that they are built in Japan. You 3000 planes claims is poof. Your nothing but a gashead spreading lies and farce. When the F 35 starts production lets discuss. Until then its a hanger queen / white elephant / flying coffin. Either way, you can try selling it as much as you want, we arent buying sweetheart. :kiss:


btw : The testing schedule is due for completion is 2016 as per the latest reports, the same year that the first PAKFA goes into production. Lets see who rolls out the first squadron.

 

[H.A.]

guys this thread is about.....Rafale and Eurofighter not about DFI member vs DFI member.

PLEASE stick to that.

 

[Nagraj]

Jay ATL & Trackwhack

Could you guys put each other on ignore list
it will make your life easier .

 

[methos]

Have you even been following this issue? The Mig35 was offered for 35million$ and the two costly contenders where the Rafael and EF-200- at 80 to 100million$. If surely cost was any factor then they would have gone in for more Mig-35s which was already present in IAF and could easily integrate all the weapons available in IAFs arsenal.

It has been know all over the world that IAFs tests where the toughest and most demanding. I may agree if you had any other reason but these two reasons are bogus, the cost in particular is totally wrong.

I never mentioned costs as sole reason, but the performance/costs-ratio. Not the lowest cost aircraft, but the aircraft which offers best possible performance for lowest possible prize. EF performs better in a variety of tasks (not in all, e.g. ground attack ATM).

The MIG-35 is btw. very likely not at 35 million $ as it isn't even in production. It happens very often that procurment programs are delayed and end with a prize being several times higher than what was originally expected. I think you Indians did experience this with the Arjun tank already.

It has been know all over the world that IAFs tests where the toughest and most demanding.

This is what you say, but this is what everybody will say about it's home country. It is not "known all over the world". Maybe the IAF did "tough" tests, but OTOH you are claiming that all other countries in the world did make less demanding and "soft" tests... do you really believe that?

 

[trackwhack]

Jay ATL & Trackwhack

Could you guys put each other on ignore list
it will make your life easier .

No, Jay is a good friend of mine. He is my personal Benny Hill. He keeps my heart is good shape with the daily laughs. My insurance premium will shoot up without his daily muppetry.

 

[utubekhiladi]

ajay sukhla is on "ranting spree"

 

[vanadium]

Why we should worry about Germany et al. The customer owes no explanation to the shopkeeper.

Given the current Geo-political scenarios and Indian growth if India will be in a position to sanction others then why we should stuck ourself with the word ''leverage'' and be self blackmailed.

There is a saying '' One in the hand is worth two in the bush''. At least we have two nations on our side forever or at least for far future for Geo-Political (vice versa) symbiosis.

India, as any Great Power, chooses solely based on her national interest and has nothing to worry about Germany et al. Germany and al understands that perfectly well, I guess.

But the acquisition process is not yet over and a very tough phase around an extremely complex contract is about to start. The success rate of Dassault Aviation in this phase is not exactly stellar...

 

[JayATL]

LOL, man up and admit that you got owned in the debate and that you posted farcical claims instead of getting personal and abusive in every single post of yours. There aren't any F 35 orders from any country as of now. Only the Japs have made kind of an offer which comes with the caveat that they are built in Japan. You 3000 planes claims is poof. Your nothing but a gashead spreading lies and farce. When the F 35 starts production lets discuss. Until then its a hanger queen / white elephant / flying coffin. Either way, you can try selling it as much as you want, we arent buying sweetheart. :kiss:

Hopefully you are capable of reading articles once they have been hand fed to you. We know you are incapable of researching facts before you post.

Canada ordered 65 already ( Canada will buy F-35 joint strike fighter, no matter the cost )

Australia ordered already ( Australia reviews F-35 purchase timetable - World - CBC News )

Israel ordered F 35 already ( Israeli Plans to Buy F-35s Moving Forward )

Turkey ordered F35 already ( Israel Matzav: Turkey orders the F-35 )

Italy ordered 135 F 35 already ( Italian Press Attacks F-35 Order � Military Forum | Airliners.net)

Japan ordered

Next Korea ...




The day I lose a debate to you will be the day we would all be the dumbest posters on the Internets.

I noticed you don't back up any claim. Your claim about Japan being arm twisted to buy F 35 is a lie and you squirmed away when asked to back it up.

 

[Armand2REP]

ajay sukhla is on "ranting spree"

I thought he got ass pounded pretty good by the ex Air Marshal.

 

[trackwhack]

Hopefully you are capable of reading articles once they have hand fed to you. We know you are incapable of researching facts before you post.

Canada ordered 65 already ( Canada will buy F-35 joint strike fighter, no matter the cost )

Australia ordered already ( Australia reviews F-35 purchase timetable - World - CBC News )

Israel ordered F 35 already ( Israeli Plans to Buy F-35s Moving Forward )

Turkey ordered F35 already ( Israel Matzav: Turkey orders the F-35 )

Italy ordered 135 F 35 already ( Italian Press Attacks F-35 Order � Military Forum | Airliners.net)

Japan ordered

Next Korea ...




The day I lose a debate to you will be the day we would all be the dumbest posters on the Internets.

I noticed you don't back up any claim. Your claim about Japan for arm twisted to buy F 35 is lie and you squirmed away when asked to back it up.

My dear Jay, half of what you posted is from internet forums, but even taking all that into account, it hardly adds up to 500 jets let alone 3000. The day Lockheed Martin receives its order from the US for the first of its 2400 planned planes, come back here and make a claim of 300 bookings. Until then stop Bulshitting.

And yeah, Italy is gonna buy those planes, sure. And Israel plans to buy while Australia is reconsidering its decision. Sure, all these are orders in the fantasy land that you live in. And no name calling in the last post? Did someone bitch-slap you between your previous post and this one?

 

[arundo]

Phase 1 and 2 of the battle are over. Phase 3 is to start soon and is not yet won.
Recent history shows that Dassault is not particularly brilliant in this critical phase.

"Der letzte Strohhalm" (= the last straw).. or Cassidan's last hope - and it's a quite fragile one...
The French have fixed the coordination problems with Dassault and we can be sure that negotiations will be supervised. It will not be a new Morocco or UAE and the deal will not slip from their hands..

 

[Nagraj]

ajay sukhla is on "ranting spree"

Who is ajay shukla??

 

[Mad Indian]

That's a fallacy,

Rafale is the better plane... obviously. Eurofighter is an over-hyped, overpriced piece of scrap. EF partners have to cannabalise their planes to keep them running. The A2G development is so stunted, RAF didn't have more than 2 planes that could drop a simple LGB over Libya. All it did during the war was fly interdiction while Rafale was pounding the crap out of Gaddafi. EF is supposed to be so great at dogfighting yet Rafale kicked RAF's behind racking up a 7:1 kill ratio. He11, even PAF F-16s were kicking its arse. The EF partner nations are dumping it like a disease. India don't want it and the Saudis are stalling further buys. They just spent $30 billion on F-15s so uh oh!. It is such a headache, Austria and Germany have entire squadrons grounded due to lack of spares. Some supply chain huh!

Hey Lets be honest here, Rafale is excellent no doubt but in terms of air superiority alone EF was much better... But the things which benefitted Rafale were its A2G capabilities and FRance per se being a reliable and trust worthy supplier and etc....