Know Your 'Rafale'

[trackwhack]

How can so much of ignorance be packed into one person, whack? We Americans can make such a claim because we are at least 2 decades ahead in technology over the rest. It is taking the world over 2 decades to catch up to stealth aircrafts. Get out if the cubicle mind set

Is that why the Hornet was thrown out of the MMRCA oh enlightened one? Or was it because the Rafale kicked the shit outta the hornet? Please oh Buddha, who art packed with so much wisdom, enlighten us, your humble followers.

Can someone start a Facebook Page on JayATL's pearls of wisdom?

 

[Mad Indian]

Who is comparing the French deal to begin with and why do you throw out platitudes about arm twisting and what happened to Pakistan as some warning that India could also face?

Are you aware of the geo political facts in your region? I have to ask if you guys even know what goes on went on in your region, given such silly talking points as submitted above.

How can you even compare the pak situation to India? They were and are "aid beggars" , they cost us taxpayer money. India is a trading partner. Pak got sanctions because they tested nuclear weapons, should not the US be looked at by indians as being fair across the table? After all if they were close to the US and US was anti India as you wise ones claim, then why would they sanction pak? Why refuse delivery of f-16's?

I want intelligent , critical debate, not some rabbit out of a hat claim of " we may get sanctioned" .

Tell me under what circumstances will India get sanctioned?

Will India test another nuclear weapon? Will India drop a nuclear weapon as a first strike on any country in a conventional war. Will India attack NATO. Give me an example where the US and world would drop sanctions on you. BTW, pak and India were sanctioned by the western world and not just the US for the nuke test. Your great pal Russia too joined in because had it not been for the US India nuclear pact, not one single country , including Russia, was willing to help out India on it's nuclear energy needs.

Those are facts and not platitudes. So you chill man and chill with facts and not platitudes.

Oh please you honestly think We(Indians) wont test nuclear weapons in the future i mean in 15-20 years time frame from now...??? seriously you expect us to be the third largest economy in the world by 2031:cool2::cool2: and not test a nuclear weapon by then when we want... Curiously that is well within the MMRCA time frame ... so is there any logic in going behind your claims.....


And it was not the entire West which took part in the sanctions...... Neither the French nor the Ruskis condemned or sanctioned us..... Hell Isreal even praised it(ever wonder why it is the second largest defence supplier of India next only to Russia).... And it was an US led agenda read about it in Wiki or Google... do some research on it dont just come and barge in with what you THINK happened and present us with facts


And as far as nuclear non-proliferation is concerned... you people are the greatest hypocrites, possessing second largest stockpile in the world not to mention the billions you people pour into for developing low yield tactical nuclear devices while at the same time thinking you can preach about non proliferation..... i mean get real dudes we are not in 1990s........

 

[JayATL]

The only country to import the obsolete Super Booger is Australia and that was just a stopgap. If the F-35 had been anywhere near a schedule, that never would have been bought. I guess it could beat a dead guy named Rafael... but beating Rafale? Let's be honest, Rafale has been kicking the Super Booger's ass for the last decade. It can do it in less than 60 seconds. You want to compare ECM to Rafale = lose. Radar might have greater range but it don't mean jack unless you can detect the target in time with Rafale being stealthier. I will put MICA up to AMRAAM any day. It crushes Sidewinder.

Are you really showing me some obscure videos to prove your point. You are also claiming Rafael to be absolute conqueror based on these one off videos, where one has no knowledge of what the scenario was? You are claiming superiority based in some odd limited excercise ? You are claiming Rafael to be the end all of aircrafts vs an ameican hornet when you know we dont table our advanced fechnologies during war games vs other countries. That's the logic you want to bring to the table.

 

[Mad Indian]

I have stated, posted several facts here and all you do is just talk in platitudes. Every claim you have made about the F35 is Bs or half truths. Even you numbers on combat radius are only for one variant. you claimed F35 is shutting down or about to and I showed you an article where Japan just awarded it' s contract after its trails- that included euro fighter, Rafael and others , 60 days ago. There are close to 3000 bookings for it already.

F 35 is BS, but the geopolitics behind it is utter non sense... It would have added serious teeth to our armed forces no doubt but Would have SERIOUSLY dented our Geopolitical ambitions...... We DONT want to be seen as an US's puppet....... see for instance when you view the international arena, the French have a higher geopolitical saying wrt The Brits because they unlike the Brits are not your puppets

 

[JayATL]

Is that why the Hornet was thrown out of the MMRCA oh enlightened one? Or was it because the Rafale kicked the shit outta the hornet? Please oh Buddha, who art packed with so much wisdom, enlighten us, your humble followers.

Can someone start a Facebook Page on JayATL's pearls of wisdom?

Somebody needs to remind cubicle kids that we field technologies on our f18 that is not shared with the world. Just like our raptors. Just because you get an aircraft does not mean you get all of the US LATEST add ons with it.

 

[Mad Indian]

Funny enough you say this- I have always had the opinion that it's an European trait based on the fact that they are not very patriotic. Allow me to explain. My Europeans friends snicker at us that we chant " USA USA " a lot. I have been told by the Brits that their flag waving is done by skin heads mostly and is looked down upon , while in the US we proudly wave our flag and sing the national anthem . This attitude by the French shows that it's not country first but personal politics that is prevelant as a national fiber as per my personal experice with the Europeans

Off topic but still this is something which many Indians should get from USA if there was anything to be got from your country....

 

[Param]

Are you really showing me some obscure videos to prove your point. You are also claiming Rafael to be absolute conqueror based on these one off videos, where one has no knowledge of what the scenario was? You are claiming superiority based in some odd limited excercise ? You are claiming Rafael to be the end all of aircrafts vs an ameican hornet when you know we dont table our advanced fechnologies during war games vs other countries. That's the logic you want to bring to the table.

There is still a lot of trust deficit between India and the US. To be frank that's the simple reason.

I am sure Super Hornet is better than others in BVR.
And in modern air combat BVR edge is a matter of life and death.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Obama has failed to build strategic ties that Bush intended.
This may be studied one day as a turning point in history?

 

[trackwhack]

Yeah, ok, I will take your word for it.

Super Secret Weapons

 

[Immanuel]

Armand I know Rafale is L-1 doesn't make it the best out there, makes it cheapest between the two. Lets not get into calling unkil names, a lot has changed between unkil and India. Matter of fact wasn't it unkil who saved French ass by sending in much needed PGMs during LIBYA while French supplies ran short. If it wasn't for Unkil you would be in Nazi Germany.

That said, lets not touch aircraft like the SH, which with superior combat radars, weapons and systems will still trump the rafale any day.

Even our own former chief Naik went on to say that US had the best of the above during the contest. Its a no brainer, Mica vs Aim-120C-7/D, Aim wins, SH vs Rafale, SH wins, better radar, first detection, first fire, Rafale doesn't even have a retractable probe.

Rafale VS F-35, F-35 wins, its EW package is a gen ahead of Rafale's. Rafale will always play a ducking game against aircraft like the F-35.

Rafale being L-1 doesn't mean victory, we have seen many a time Rafale being very close and failing miserably partly due to the attitude of being superior.

Each aircraft has ts own advantage, for a rafale pilot to take on a full spec F-18SH or EF with AESA lightly is anything but foolhardy. Rafale is at best a good multirole aircraft. Thats it, it's neither good or bad at everything it does, it just does it's job.

Unkil still has critical parts on the Rafale too. Unkil's products are bound to be inducted more and more and into our inventory and AF.

Humility goes a long way buddy, Dassault team needs to remain humble, customer is still king and this is raffy biggest battle, it could either end up being a good aircraft that never sold or come out a winner on this deal.

Let me remind just because L-1 has been decided doesn't mean it is over, it really isn't till the deal is inked.

 

[JayATL]

Oh please you honestly think We(Indians) wont test nuclear weapons in the future i mean in 15-20 years time frame from now...??? seriously you expect us to be the third largest economy in the world by 2031:cool2::cool2: and not test a nuclear weapon by then when we want... Curiously that is well within the MMRCA time frame ... so is there any logic in going behind your claims.....


And it was not the entire West which took part in the sanctions...... Neither the French nor the Ruskis condemned or sanctioned us..... Hell Isreal even praised it(ever wonder why it is the second largest defence supplier of India next only to Russia).... And it was an US led agenda read about it in Wiki or Google... do some research on it dont just come and barge in with what you THINK happened and present us with facts


And as far as nuclear non-proliferation is concerned... you people are the greatest hypocrites, possessing second largest stockpile in the world not to mention the billions you people pour into for developing low yield tactical nuclear devices while at the same time thinking you can preach about non proliferation..... i mean get real dudes we are not in 1990s........

F 35 is BS, but the geopolitics behind it is utter non sense... It would have added serious teeth to our armed forces no doubt but Would have SERIOUSLY dented our Geopolitical ambitions...... We DONT want to be seen as an US's puppet....... see for instance when you view the international arena, the French have a higher geopolitical saying wrt The Brits because they unlike the Brits are not your puppets

You have no clue about your own country, world politics do you? There will be no future nuclear test . Just because you think you will wear bigger pants does not make a nuclear test happen. There is a world wide sanction against it, there will no further cooperation on nuclear deals, no Aussie imports, severely hampered exports, economic sanctions for any country that does a nuclear test , period. Also gou have no clue that russians did not help india on civilian nuclear deals because of the sanctions and that it took the US to open it back up vor india worldwide.

And I leave alone this childish banter about the French having more geopolitical say that the US. That's Baghdad bob like proclamations.

 

[vanadium]

It is pretty funny that people still talk about a failure of negotiations. UMP has a gun to Dassault's head. If he screws this up he is going out of business and his empire will be liquidated to the highest bidder. The new L1 bid to Switzerland says he gets the message.

I bet it has: after all the recent screw ups!

I guess Eurofighter should do in India now what Dassault has done in Switzerland with a new unsolicited offer...

 

[Galaxy]

IMO, Super Hornet is better than Rafale or ET, But we rejected due to ToT and Lack of trust. We don't need to become another U.S. allies.

Rafale is certainly not the best in the world, But it's best in South & Central Asia and that what matters for us.

 

[JayATL]

Yeah, ok, I will take your word for it.

Super Secret Weapons

Seems like you been getting your news from the samosa Walla , if you are surprised to learn about US has superior , secret and superbly advanced tech they keep for themselves.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

IMO, Super Hornet is better than Rafale or ET, But we rejected due to ToT and Lack of trust. We don't need to become another U.S. allies.

Rafale is certainly not the best in the world, But it's best in South & Central Asia and that what matters for us.

SH is ok but the airframe is 30+ years old it is all the extras that make it a lethal plane most Superhornets do not last
more than 15 years due to stress cracks. EF and Rafele are both newer airframes to start and the Meteor is a better
BVR than AIM-120.


http://www.defensenews.com/article/...unds-104-Hornets-After-More-Cracks-Discovered

U.S. Grounds 104 Hornets After More Cracks Discovered

 

[JayATL]

@JayAtl,

Stop cribbing man. We dont not trust USA for critical military hardware like fighters which are prone to sanctions. You know how the Sea Kings of the Indian Navy were essentially hangar queens for lack of spares during the sanctions imposed by YOUR country for exploding nukes.?

Simply we dont trust you , your presidents with itchy fingers (for sanctions) and your system. It's fine as long as you send military transport crafts, transport helis, reconnaissance crafts which are NOT critical for fighting warfare but just force multipliers.

This is an a pure fabricated Internet pipe dream. There is no sure concern from the Indian govt period. Tell me a scenario were US will sanction a hugely important client and trade partner like India? Give me one scenario...to back up this fabricated claim

 

[Galaxy]

SH is ok but the airframe is 30+ years old it is all the extras that make it a lethal plane most Superhornets do not last
more than 15 years due to stress cracks. EF and Rafele are both newer airframes to start and the Meteor is a better
BVR than AIM.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/...unds-104-Hornets-After-More-Cracks-Discovered

U.S. Grounds 104 Hornets After More Cracks Discovere

Well, I have read most of it and that is debatable. There are few things which makes SH better than Rafale/Typhoon. Overall SH is better than Raf or ET according to me.

But it doesn't matter, Rafale is perfectly fine for us in our region. Indeed, I am happy that we rejected SH. U.S. is not truth worthy.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

Well, That is debatable. There are few things which makes SH better than Rafale/Typhoon. Overall SH is better than Raf or ET according to me.

But it doesn't matter, Rafale is perfectly fine for us in our region. Indeed, I am happy that we rejected SH. U.S. is not truth worthy.

Almost 60%+ of SH get cracked wings within 10 years, this is unofficially from a friend of mine
in the US navy.

 

[JayATL]

SH is ok but the airframe is 30+ years old it is all the extras that make it a lethal plane most Superhornets do not last
more than 15 years due to stress cracks. EF and Rafele are both newer airframes to start and the Meteor is a better
BVR than AIM-120.


U.S. Grounds 104 Hornets After More Cracks Discovered | Gannett Government Media | defensenews.com

U.S. Grounds 104 Hornets After More Cracks Discovered

You are claiming grounding of aircrafts as some proof of its lack of superiority ? Did they not ground Mig 29 k too recently for awhile? Btw it was Obama admin and Obama dem congress that passed all the purchases. It was not approved under bush because the contract was not even in place under his administration. ( your claim made earlier) . There was no contract signed on the largest purchases.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

You are claiming grounding of aircrafts as some proof of its lack of superiority ? Did they not ground Mig 29 k too recently for awhile? Btw it was Obama admin and Obama dem congress that passed all the purchases. It was not approved under bush because the contract was not even in place under his administration. ( your claim made earlier) . There was no contract signed on the largest purchases.

Of course grounded aircrafts are useless aircrafts. Obama has not sold one
weapon to India if so name it??