Know Your 'Rafale'

[BON PLAN]

S

.

Lets see how much each Rafale costs

1. Rafale - $100 million
2. MICA EM - 4 missiles - $6 million
3. MICA IR - 4 missiles - $6 million
4. Meteor - 4 missile - $8 million
5. SCALP - 4 missile - $3 million
6. AASM/PGM- 10 bombs - $2 million
7. AASM/LGM - 10 bombs - $2 million


8. Damocles - $2 million
9. RBE 2 AESA - one additional Radar - $5 million
10. M88 Engine - 2 additional engine for each Rafale - $20 million

11. one hour flying cost - $16,000, per year- $5 million per year- 300 flying hour per year- for twenty years - $100 million

12. Base set up, Engineers training, Support - $10 million



As simple each Rafale costs more than $250 millions, those missile numbers can only increases ..

That's the above value for Rafale for twenty years

Strange SCALP cost less than Mica...... another bs information I think.

 

[BON PLAN]

Especially while China gets its heavy Su-35SK for approx. 120 millions (most insiders agreed with this estimation) including standard pack of weapons, training and expendables.

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For what availaibility ? far from west products. Especially Rafale one.

 

[BON PLAN]

F-35's DAS alone in current version outperforms any sensor on the Rafale in detection ranges. Keep selling the Rafale OSF and Spectra snake oil.

Source?

None, I'm afraid. These datas are classified, in china and France....

 

[BON PLAN]

means, you have to consider the generation gap. Similar gen multirole can't better a dedicated figher of similar gen but it can replace a dedicated figher of previous generation because advanced gen fighter will be equally good or better than the previous gen dedicated figher.


first shot means a big advantage, raflale will be busy shaking off the missile rather than tracking j20. Rafle won't be getting into wvr on most cases.


Depending upon what country we are talking. France is using a multirole figher for all purposes, where as countries like US are not satisfied with multirole, they want dedicated air superiority fighters.

i would like to see some links


I also used follow online discussions, mostly during the mrca competition period, and what i learned is that Typhoon is basically tuned for air to air with high altitude flight, high agility, powerful radar etc. While Typhoon can't beat raflale on air to ground,.

Rafale cant beat typoon on air to air : It's why RAF doens't want to train against Rafale..... after having received a lot of lessons.

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

The price of one Rafale is less than 100 million. And it includes the engines. No need of 2 engines in spares, juste some components....
So the total is not what you say.

What happens when engine I
Faces a bird hit - very common in Indian conditions ?

If what you say is true then the life cycle costs should be less and the spares and maintainance contract should be lower ?

Also
What about the higher prices of engines and spares don't they compensate for higher maintainance but chepaer components of Russian jets and spares and in the long run rafales turn out to be costly ?

After all 5% of 60 million is less than 5% of 100 million no?

 

[gadeshi]

For what availaibility ? far from west products. Especially Rafale one.

Do you really think that Rafale or Typhoon are available just now ?

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[Immanuel]

The price of one Rafale is less than 100 million. And it includes the engines. No need of 2 engines in spares, juste some components....
So the total is not what you say.

May be in France, but the acquisition price of one Rafale being quoted in India is around 138 million

 

[Immanuel]

For what availaibility ? far from west products. Especially Rafale one.

Availability depends entirely on costs and proper planning. MKI can easily achieve 80-90% availability, its just a matter of how much IAF is willing to shed out. Global norm for professional air forces is around 70%. It becomes far too expenisve to have 90% availability for extensive timelines. Rafale in France has an availability of around 60%. By end of 2016 MKI will have fleet availability of 75% which is good enough for peacetime and an ability to have 90% during moments of conflicts for short time frames of around 6-8 weeks.

 

[Immanuel]

Source?

None, I'm afraid. These datas are classified, in china and France....

DAS has proven an ability to detect missile laucnhes at over 1200KM, nearly 4 times the range of any sensor on the Rafale, so again keep selling your BS.

 

[Immanuel]

Rafale cant beat typoon on air to air : It's why RAF doens't want to train against Rafale..... after having received a lot of lessons.

Rafale got ass whopped by the MKI plenty of times. Dogfights don't prove anything, even the humble F-4 stuck it really well to the Rafale. Again keep selling your foie gras.

 

[Gessler]

DAS has proven an ability to detect missile laucnhes at over 1200KM, nearly 4 times the range of any sensor on the Rafale, so again keep selling your BS.

Ballistic missiles. Almost equal to a space rocket plume.

Any airborne IRST can pick up such huge signatures over 1,000km if conditions are favourable. Point is, such specs are absolutely irrelevant to combat.

A simple hand-held IR camera can pick up the Sun's heat source from 150 milion kilometers away.

Only idiots speak about such specs that have no actual role to play in combat. EODAS can detect incoming AAMs at around 40-50 nautical miles if the conditions are favorable (bad weather, too much cloud cover, too much ambient heat can hamper performance to considerable extents, just like for any other system).

 

[Gessler]

Rafale got ass whopped by the MKI plenty of times. Dogfights don't prove anything, even the humble F-4 stuck it really well to the Rafale. Again keep selling your foie gras.

http://articles.economictimes.indiatimes.com/2015-02-19/news/59304999_1_sukhoi-iaf-chief-arup-raha

Good. So according to the IAF Chief, Sukhoi is not and cannot be a replacement or alternative to Rafale.

End of argument. Unless you can give me a source from some authority higher than him.

 

[cannonfodder]

http://idrw.org/india-france-set-to-close-rafale-deal-at-lower-price-of-rs-60000-cr/

India and France are expected to close the purchase of 36 Rafale multi-role fighters from Dassault Aviation with the signing of an inter-governmental agreement including the commercial contract between the two countries next month. The deal is expected to be clinched at about Rs 60,000 crore, less than what was offered by France to India during the previous UPA government with 2011 being the base price year.

Top government sources said after the initial price of 11.6 billion euros (Rs 85,000 crore) with 2015 as the base year, Dassault brought it down to 8 billion euros (Rs 65,000 crore) with 2011 being the base year for fixing the cost per fighter.

 

[Gessler]

[MOD Edit: Censored.]

Already lost the argument and now clutching to straws & spewing insults. How pathetic.

Reported.

 

[Immanuel]

Give me a Rafale at a flyaway price of 80-90 million and we can talk. This is the cost at which we can easily get Super Hornets, Gripen NGs, Super MKIs, may be even Eurofighters. All of which are 4.5 aircraft. All in all Rafale is no better or worse than these. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Why pay a premium of 138 million per unit for the Rafale?

 

[BON PLAN]

DAS has proven an ability to detect missile laucnhes at over 1200KM, nearly 4 times the range of any sensor on the Rafale, so again keep selling your BS.

ah ah ah.....

1200 kms? ability? what does it mean 'ability'?

Too easy to say "my Volkswagen golf 1 has the ability to reach 250km/h". Possible with a 300HP engine. But it doesn't have yet....

 

[BON PLAN]

What happens when engine I
Faces a bird hit - very common in Indian conditions ?

If what you say is true then the life cycle costs should be less and the spares and maintainance contract should be lower ?

Also
What about the higher prices of engines and spares don't they compensate for higher maintainance but chepaer components of Russian jets and spares and in the long run rafales turn out to be costly ?

After all 5% of 60 million is less than 5% of 100 million no?

You just have to replace the first module of the engine (M88 has 21 module, all interchangeable without test).
West engine has a higher life than russian ones. It has a cost.

 

[BON PLAN]

May be in France, but the acquisition price of one Rafale being quoted in India is around 138 million

What is Inside this 138 millions? Maybe 50% offset..... without offset (if it's the case, but probably) it's about 90 milions.

 

[BON PLAN]

Rafale got ass whopped by the MKI plenty of times. Dogfights don't prove anything, even the humble F-4 stuck it really well to the Rafale. Again keep selling your foie gras.

source?
Don't spread news like that.
Remember all the test. Swiss is the best known....

 

[BON PLAN]

Give me a Rafale at a flyaway price of 80-90 million and we can talk. This is the cost at which we can easily get Super Hornets, Gripen NGs, Super MKIs, may be even Eurofighters. All of which are 4.5 aircraft. All in all Rafale is no better or worse than these. They all have their strengths and weaknesses. Why pay a premium of 138 million per unit for the Rafale?

It's not what we can see in the Swiss report. Rafale better in ALL mission.
ahead EF, and far ahead Gripen.

And what about EAU ? They found EF not suitable. Rafale was too costly, but never not suitable....

I know you have pain to your a** when speaking about Rafale, but it's the case : this bird is the best of its class. Now and tomorrow. Why? because it's easier to developp a product from one sole engineering office and to complain with one sole Customer need list, than from 4 engineering office anf 4 slightly different use.

And Dassault is the world leader in experience with Delta. EF is a nice first try, but only a try.