Know Your 'Rafale'

[SajeevJino]

It will be Su-30 and PAK-FA. The Rafale may be reserved for strategic strike role like Mirage.

I think it is clear from your question itself that PAK-FA/FGFA is needed.

Strategic Strike Role , what it is

 

[Lone Ranger]

The only replacement the Rafale is fit for is the Mig 27 (85 in number) and that is what the IAF should have aimed for from the beginning. Instead the IAF itself created a white elephant called MMRCA by projecting a need for 126 jets and there by ensuring a stiff price tag!! Since the Mig 27 is to be retired from 2017/2018 onwards I think these 2 Rafale Squads are meant for replacement.

I assume that any future increase in the G-2-G contract for more Rafales (if at all) will be to shore up the numbers for the Mig 27 replacements. Besides Mig 27 is primarily a Ground Attack and thats exactly the role Rafale should be employed in.

Original numbers of mig 23/27 in IAF was more than 150 so 126 number was justifiable and required.
Buying 8 squadrons of these is enough to give 24X7 headaches to PLAF and PAF .

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

why to go for 90 rafales ? Lca Mk 2 will be a sane choice .

buy 8 squadrons of Rafales and PLAF & PAF will be having 24X7 nightmares.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Not in intense SAM or AAA environment, The strategic as well as many local tactical targets have gone for guided and unguided rocket / Missiles system, Manned mission are no longer favorable ..

Sir I think we need it , If we were attacking the Bakistani positions we need a Bomb truck,

They learned the Lesson of dropping Massive amount of bombs in Kargil,

===============

Obviously yes ..

Sir Do you mean to say that Tejas is BETTER than MiG 29

===============

Tejas can do ..

WHICH plane in IAF will take on J 20 and SU 35 of PLAAF

That is all I want to know

================

1100km without fuel tank in no less than any-other ..

However, LCA's Ferry Range is less than those of other aircrafts (sic)."

 

[sgarg]

Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

buy 8 squadrons of Rafales and PLAF & PAF will be having 24X7 nightmares.

Doubt it very much. PLAAF and PAF are two totally different beasts.

It is better to accept that Indian airpower is trailing the Chinese badly. The gap is growing every passing day. Rafale is a drop in the ocean.

 

[sgarg]

Table 2: IAF Combat Jet Fighter Force Levels (Present Status)
Aircraft Origin Type In Service Remarks
Su-30 MKI Russia/India Air Dominance/Multi-role 194 4th Gen+
Mirage 2000 France Multi-role 50
Jaguar France/UK Strike 106 3rd Gen9
MiG 29 Russia Air Superiority 63 3rd Gen
MiG 27 USSR Ground Attack 127 3rd Gen10
MiG 21　Variants USSR Interceptor/Multi-role 259 2nd/3rd Gen

Table 3: IAF's Estimated Jet Fighter Force Levels (Around 2022)11
S.No. Type Role Numbers No. of　Squadrons ( )
1. Su-30 MKI Air Dominance 270 (13) 4th Gen+
2. Rafale Omni-role 126 (6) 4th Gen+
3. Mirage 2000 Multi-role 50+ (3) 4th Gen
4. MiG-29 Multi-role 60+ (3) 3rd Gen
5. Jaguar Strike 150 (6-7) 3rd Gen
6. LCA Multi-role 124 (6) 4th Gen
7. Mig-27 Ground-Attack 70 (4) 3rd Gen

http://mercury.ethz.ch/serviceengin...013-12-31+-+Airpower+Across+the+Himalayas.pdf

 

[Lone Ranger]

Table 3: IAF's Estimated Jet Fighter Force Levels (Around 2022)11
S.No. Type Role Numbers No. of　Squadrons ( )
1. Su-30 MKI Air Dominance 270 (13) 4th Gen+
2. Rafale Omni-role 126 (6) 4th Gen+
3. Mirage 2000 Multi-role 50+ (3) 4th Gen
4. MiG-29 Multi-role 60+ (3) 3rd Gen
5. Jaguar Strike 150 (6-7) 3rd Gen
6. LCA Multi-role 124 (6) 4th Gen
7. Mig-27 Ground-Attack 70 (4) 3rd Gen

http://mercury.ethz.ch/serviceengin...013-12-31+-+Airpower+Across+the+Himalayas.pdf

Mig 27 will be first to be retired you can expect around 5-6 squadrons of mig 21 bison by then but surely no mig 27.

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

Doubt it very much. PLAAF and PAF are two totally different beasts.

It is better to accept that Indian airpower is trailing the Chinese badly. The gap is growing every passing day. Rafale is a drop in the ocean.

Read my post carefully buy 8 - 10 squadrons of Rafale both PAF and PLAF will be running scared as they have nothing comparable to latest rafales.

 

[sgarg]

Table 1: PLAAF Fighter/Bomber Aircraft Holdings
Aircraft Origin Type In Service Remarks
J-10 China Multi-role (240+)300 + 4th/4th + Gen
J-11 China Air-superiority/Multi-role (205+)200 4th Gen
Su-27 Russia Air-superiority (75)70 4th Gen
Su-30 MKK Russia/China Air-superiority 73 4th/4th+ Gen
JF-17/FC-1 China/Pakistan Multi-role N/K5 4th Gen
J-8 China Interceptor 168 3rd Gen
J-7 China Interceptor 504 3rd Gen
JH-7 China Strike 1206 4th Gen
H-6 China Bomber 82 3rd Gen
Q-5 China Ground Attack 120 3rd Gen

 

[sgarg]

Table 1: PLAAF Fighter/Bomber Aircraft Holdings
Aircraft Origin Type In Service Remarks
J-10 China Multi-role (240+)300 + 4th/4th + Gen
J-11 China Air-superiority/Multi-role (205+)200 4th Gen
Su-27 Russia Air-superiority (75)70 4th Gen
Su-30 MKK Russia/China Air-superiority 73 4th/4th+ Gen
JF-17/FC-1 China/Pakistan Multi-role N/K5 4th Gen
J-8 China Interceptor 168 3rd Gen
J-7 China Interceptor 504 3rd Gen
JH-7 China Strike 1206 4th Gen
H-6 China Bomber 82 3rd Gen
Q-5 China Ground Attack 120 3rd Gen

 

[Lone Ranger]

Re: Dassault Rafale wins MMRCA!

Doubt it very much. PLAAF and PAF are two totally different beasts.

It is better to accept that Indian airpower is trailing the Chinese badly. The gap is growing every passing day. Rafale is a drop in the ocean.

Read my post carefully buy 8 - 10 squadrons of Rafale both PAF and PLAF will be running scared as they have nothing comparable to latest rafales.

 

[SajeevJino]

Not in intense SAM or AAA environment, The strategic as well as many local tactical targets have gone for guided and unguided rocket / Missiles system, Manned mission are no longer favorable ..

Sir, I think first round of Rafales can strike those EW networks and Their AD batteries, Bakistani SAM's were so obsolete, AAA Threat can be evaded by flying high

I agree of Guided unguided Rocket Artillery Barrage, but the Range is Limited, less than 80 Kilometers I think, but still we need a Strike Platform to do missions deep inside Bakistan and China

1100km without fuel tank in no less than any-other ..

I sure that could be with two drop Tanks

 

[sgarg]

@Lone Ranger, your 8-10 Rafale sq will not materialize suddenly by magic. If the process is started today, it will take 15 years.

Let us compare the situation today - how many 4th gen fighters China fields today compared to India??

China can build and induct 100+ fighters every year. See where that takes you after 15 years.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

As I think India may buy another batch of 36 or less than Fifty numbers Directly from France , that's the Last purchase of Fighter Aircrafts from Foreign Except Some T 50 ( Only my assumption )

later all will come as like joint Ventures

 

[ersakthivel]

@ersakthivel

please answer a SIMPLE question

WHICH plane in IAF will take on J 20 and SU 35 of PLAAF

That is all I want to know

NOT rafale by any stretch of imagination

FGFA and AMCA along with much help from stealth UCAV like Aura all in future tense.

 

[Singh]

1100km without fuel tank in no less than any-other ..

Don't think the Defence Minister will lie in Parliament.

 

[ersakthivel]

Sir, I think first round of Rafales can strike those EW networks and Their AD batteries, Bakistani SAM's were so obsolete, AAA Threat can be evaded by flying high

I agree of Guided unguided Rocket Artillery Barrage, but the Range is Limited, less than 80 Kilometers I think, but still we need a Strike Platform to do missions deep inside Bakistan and China




I sure that could be with two drop Tanks

this is from @Decklander the same guy that we kicked out from DFI because of misbehave, his reply to Prydut

How does rafale penetrate air space patrolled by sweden SAAB supplied and chinese supplied AWACS to do those strikes?

CAn its Spectra overwhelm the AWACS?

 

[Singh]

Yes I read the Comments made by you and others, Just like all were unacceptable,

The same what you claimed were already debunked here in DFI by @p2prada , @Defcon_1 and @shiphone with someone's help you survived with your claims, later they were stopped following your posts then they were also forced out from DFI, these are also known.

and I sure I'm not a expert in Such Technical details, but i prefer only good posts come from knowledgeable and Ex professionals

One more. Isn't you read the LCA Analysis made by Dr Vivek Ahuja in his beta coefficient blog

None of the members were forced out of DFI iirc. Can you please pm me why you feel so ?

 

[SajeevJino]

How does rafale penetrate air space patrolled by sweden SAAB supplied and chinese supplied AWACS to do those strikes?



CAn its Spectra overwhelm the AWACS?

As I think ..with Terran Hugging, and Spectra EW and with the RBE 2 AESA

Even if those SAAB Eyrie found the Plane how it can co ordinate it's Fighter plane ,PAF F 16 can't work with Saab or any other AEWCS, should they sent JF 17's and I sure Rafale knows how to teach them a good lesson

 

[sob]

Let us not get carried away by LCA which has not been manufactured in numbers by HAL. Technologically if we are satisfied that it is better than Mig 21 or Mirage 2000 or Mig 29, aircraft which were designed 30 to 40 to 50 years ago, then we have wasted money on the project. If compared to JF 17, yes it will a better aircraft by a margin, but if people compare it with Rafael or SU 35, then we are doing an injustice to ADA/HAL.