Know Your 'Rafale'

Lions Of Punjab

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BYE BYE Rafale .....

https://www.thedollarbusiness.com/i...-billon-defence-import-bill-defence-minister/

INDIA CAN'T AFFORD A $20 BILLION DEFENCE IMPORT BILL: DEFENCE MINISTER

Highlighting the importance of indigenisation of defence in India, Manohar Parrikar, Minister for Defence, Government of India, said today that a huge defence import bill to the tune of $20 billion is unaffordable and has undesirable consequences for the economy, development and unemployment in the country.

Speaking at a seminar, "Gujarat: Preferred Hub for Defence Production", held on the sidelines of Vibrant Gujarat 2015, Gandhinagar, Parrikar said that it is important to promote defence production in India for strategic reasons as well. "The country should not be dependent on defence imports," he said.

Parrikar also said that high end technology should be used in defence, but harped on the need to develop a clear strategy in defence manufacturing and procurement. "After spending crores in curtain projects the goal post suddenly shifts. Therefore, there is need for total overhaul in conceptualising and thinking with regard to defence manufacturing and procurement," he said.

The government is planning a strategy on indigenisation of defence production and plans to engage Gujarat and other state governments to kick-start an ambitious defence production program. Under the program, the Ministry plans to come up with a list of defence items that could be manufactured in India by April 2015 and add more items on the list with time.

India has the 3rd largest armed forces in the world, but around 60% of requirements is met by imports. According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), India is the world's biggest arms importer with imports of major weapons increasing by over 110% between 2004-08 and 2009-13. Russia and USA are the biggest suppliers of defence equipment to India, with the former accounting for around 70-75% of India's defence imports.

Recently, G. Mohan Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production) had announced that the government plans to announce around 10 defence projects every year under its Make Policy. "In the current situation, indigenisation has become very important as we cannot have a defence system which is depending on imports all the time," Kumar said. He also hinted that that the new Defence Procurement policy is likely to be a simple document of around 25-30 pages.

Mired in several controversies, India's defence manufacturing sector remained closed for several years post liberalisation reforms in the nineties. However, to reduce the dependence on imports, the government had opened the defence manufacturing sector up to 100% for Indian private sector in May 2001 and allowed FDI up to 26%. Last year, the government allowed FDI in the defence sector to up to 49% through FIPB route and above 49% through Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) as a part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" initiative.
 

karn

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Bharat Karnad paper. A clown. Full of factual errors so i'd take with all the oceans salt...
Lets say for example : F4R and F5R do not exist...
AESA was indeed included in RFP. And tests. And submission...
PESA isn't anymore built etc.
In fact the most difficult part in Karnad's "analysis" is to find one true thing.
Bharat Karnad is indeed a clown .
His article on how the Arihant had gone to "crushing depths" before it had left the harbour confirmed as much .
His solution to the cross border firing is for the commanders on both sides to share drinks .
After this I choose to ignore his articles anytime it gets linked here .
It may take another year for a clear answer to emerge . Let us see what happens .
 

halloweene

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BYE BYE Rafale .....

https://www.thedollarbusiness.com/i...-billon-defence-import-bill-defence-minister/

INDIA CAN'T AFFORD A $20 BILLION DEFENCE IMPORT BILL: DEFENCE MINISTER

Highlighting the importance of indigenisation of defence in India, Manohar Parrikar, Minister for Defence, Government of India, said today that a huge defence import bill to the tune of $20 billion is unaffordable and has undesirable consequences for the economy, development and unemployment in the country.

Speaking at a seminar, "Gujarat: Preferred Hub for Defence Production", held on the sidelines of Vibrant Gujarat 2015, Gandhinagar, Parrikar said that it is important to promote defence production in India for strategic reasons as well. "The country should not be dependent on defence imports," he said.

Parrikar also said that high end technology should be used in defence, but harped on the need to develop a clear strategy in defence manufacturing and procurement. "After spending crores in curtain projects the goal post suddenly shifts. Therefore, there is need for total overhaul in conceptualising and thinking with regard to defence manufacturing and procurement," he said.

The government is planning a strategy on indigenisation of defence production and plans to engage Gujarat and other state governments to kick-start an ambitious defence production program. Under the program, the Ministry plans to come up with a list of defence items that could be manufactured in India by April 2015 and add more items on the list with time.

India has the 3rd largest armed forces in the world, but around 60% of requirements is met by imports. According to Stockholm International Peace Research Institute (SIPRI), India is the world's biggest arms importer with imports of major weapons increasing by over 110% between 2004-08 and 2009-13. Russia and USA are the biggest suppliers of defence equipment to India, with the former accounting for around 70-75% of India's defence imports.

Recently, G. Mohan Kumar, Secretary (Defence Production) had announced that the government plans to announce around 10 defence projects every year under its Make Policy. "In the current situation, indigenisation has become very important as we cannot have a defence system which is depending on imports all the time," Kumar said. He also hinted that that the new Defence Procurement policy is likely to be a simple document of around 25-30 pages.

Mired in several controversies, India's defence manufacturing sector remained closed for several years post liberalisation reforms in the nineties. However, to reduce the dependence on imports, the government had opened the defence manufacturing sector up to 100% for Indian private sector in May 2001 and allowed FDI up to 26%. Last year, the government allowed FDI in the defence sector to up to 49% through FIPB route and above 49% through Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) as a part of Prime Minister Narendra Modi's "Make in India" initiative.
you take the bet?
 

PaliwalWarrior

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Livefist @livefist
'Rafale deal not certain but problems can be sorted out,' @manoharParrikar tells Karan Thapar on @HeadlinesToday @ 8pm. #MMRCA
 
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PaliwalWarrior

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Parrikar writing a letter to his French counterpart asking where is their Negotiation team and when will it come to India suggests French are not serious and Deal is Gone case .
 

sorcerer

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India to decide on purchase of French Rafale fighters by April — media

India will make a decision on whether or not to purchase French Rafale fighters by April this year, when India's Prime Minister Narendra Modi goes on a visit to France and Germany, the Times of India edition wrote Monday.

According to a source in the country's Defense Ministry, the sides have been trying to reach an agreement on guarantee maintenance of India-assembled fighters for a year. The French side insists on raising the price of the fighter jets in case maintenance is provided by them. The price of the jets has already risen from the initial $10 billion to over $20 billion, runs the article.


Read more: India to decide on purchase of French Rafale fighters by April — media - News - Politics - Russian Radio
 

halloweene

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Parrikar writing a letter to his French counterpart asking where is their Negotiation team and when will it come to India suggests French are not serious and Deal is Gone case .
Pfff even I know when they go to india... And i'm nowhere to be an insider. And PArrikar wouldn't know? What a joke!
 

kaustav2001

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At this point it's really best to cancel the Rafale deal. At 20 - 30+ Billion ($$) it just doesn't make any economic sense. Especially since we're also negotiating with the Russians (another 30 Billion or so) for the PAKFA/ FGFA. While operational requirements need to be met, we cannot simply allow only two acquisitions by the IAF alone to set us back by about 50 - 60 Billion dollars. IAF must be told to choose between Rafale & the FGFA & make do with increased Tejas MK1 & MK 2 nos.
Rafale may have made sense till about 5 yrs ago, right now it's just too late & too expensive. I strongly support Manohar Parrikar in this. Just bump up the MKI nos. & address the rest with Tejas.
 

Kharavela

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within a week. In the meantime today are to be some discussions in Paris.
They may discuss to the content of their heart in Paris, it is not going to help Rafale deal. Since Dassault couldn't stick to original RFP clauses & tried to circumvent those, probability of MMRCA tender being scrapped is increasing with each passing day.
 

Prometheus

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Dassault and France are much more eager to sell the Rafale ( then India is eager to buy them), its just that they are good at keeping a poker face. In the world of hi-tech/ hi-end fighters, there are too many options, and too less buyers. Already smaller nations like Sweden, France, UK, Germany etc are finding it difficult to develop their individual platforms. Thats why all the others are trying hard to reel India in again with counter offers. The only shortfall for India is, cant let the competition back in thanks to the MMRCA contract obligations.

If India refuses the Rafale, not only will it mean the end of Dassault and the french ability to make fighters, but it will put a huge burden on the French economy, and the french defense industry wont be able to recover from it. Europe is in recession, money is hard to come by. The Rafale deal marks the end of the road for independently developed french fighters, with no other foreign sales possible. They are trying as hard as they can to milk India as much as they can to recover the investment they had invested, as they know that no one else is going to buy that plane.

The days of independent platforms are over, nations all around the world are looking for partners, and I don't think the french would ever again venture into the realm of developing their own platform independently. The french are just trying to pull India in to share the losses they incurred due to the Rafale ..... Trust me its just a poker face, even if India refuses to buy the plane at nothing more then the original purchase price, they will sell them!
 
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halloweene

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AHem. Around 70% of Dassault Aviation is business jets. And france quite successfully exported weapons in 2014 (8+ billions euros). MMRCA would be a nice add-on, certainly, but a pur a huge burden on French economy well... Not really!
The famous s="stick to RFP". I wonder why no journo ever asked precisely where DA did not stick to RFP and to see the famous clause?
When i said meeetings in PAris, def sec gen of india did meet french MoD yesterday.
 

Prometheus

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@halloweene I was referring to Dassault's military wing, and its ability to manufacture future combat aircraft's on an independent platform.
 
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sgarg

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AHem. Around 70% of Dassault Aviation is business jets. And france quite successfully exported weapons in 2014 (8+ billions euros). MMRCA would be a nice add-on, certainly, but a pur a huge burden on French economy well... Not really!
The famous s="stick to RFP". I wonder why no journo ever asked precisely where DA did not stick to RFP and to see the famous clause?
When i said meeetings in PAris, def sec gen of india did meet french MoD yesterday.
There is a problem with Indian procurement process more than Dassault. The earlier government framed poor procurement terms likely due to corruption. The costs are not properly captured by the tender responses. The tender terms were not elaborate enough and a purchase under those terms will not stand Indian audit even.

The method has been to fudge the process and work around the rules in typical Indian procurements. However in this case, the government is changed and the new government is not interested in fudging any more. This is the reason for the impasse more than what Dassault wants or not.

I do not want to blame French beyond that French company is involved in this manipulation of contract terms.

I have said before that MMRCA tender is moving towards cancellation. This tender is the biggest farce in Indian military procurement. The actual cost is far higher than the stated cost, which is the biggest violation of the tendering process.
 

AnantS

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Any real clue about cost far higher than stated cost apart anonymous "sources"?
Just go through the interview of Def Minister in the video posted, that is the best statements you can get about status of the deal for Rafale from Indian side.
 

sgarg

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Any real clue about cost far higher than stated cost apart anonymous "sources"?
The deliberations of the government with Dassault cannot be published at this point. I am sure details will come out after the tender is cancelled.
 

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