Know Your 'Rafale'

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

I think india should go for tejas mkii instead of rafel.
It will be good for our defence.

Hello welcome to DFI;
The moment i read your comment i knew you must be new here

Plz introduce yourself in introduction & greetings section.

 

[pankaj nema]

@p2prada

Super Hornet and F 16 IN that were offered to India were very good planes

In my opinion The reasons that India rejected US planes and went for Rafale

1 Very little TOT / offsets would have been given by US as compared to France

2 We would have really angered the Russians and put a whole lot of JVs and programmes
both present and Future in danger like Brahmos ; FGFA ; cooperation in Nuclear submarine ;
GLONASS ; Super sukhoi 30

The DRDO still " consults " Russians on some missile programmes

TRISHUL: Why Is This DRDO Official In Moscow?

3 The US policy of sanctions at the drop of a hat

4 Finally The French were very keen for a successful sale because the Typhoon had
been exported to the Saudis and Rafale had not been chosen by any foreign buyer till India bought it
Hence we are negotiating very hard for the best possible deal

5 IAF 's love for the Mirage 2000 ; Rafale is the easiest for the IAF to adapt

 

[pankaj nema]

@p2prada

"…Rafale is the best fighter plane in the world" – Air Chief Marshal Denis Mercier » Indian Defence Review

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

@p2prada

Super Hornet and F 16 IN that were offered to India were very good planes

In my opinion The reasons that India rejected US planes and went for Rafale

1 Very little TOT / offsets would have been given by US as compared to France

2 We would have really angered the Russians and put a whole lot of JVs and programmes
both present and Future in danger like Brahmos ; FGFA ; cooperation in Nuclear submarine ;
GLONASS ; Super sukhoi 30

The DRDO still " consults " Russians on some missile programmes

TRISHUL: Why Is This DRDO Official In Moscow?

3 The US policy of sanctions at the drop of a hat

4 Finally The French were very keen for a successful sale because the Typhoon had
been exported to the Saudis and Rafale had not been chosen by any foreign buyer till India bought it
Hence we are negotiating very hard for the best possible deal

5 IAF 's love for the Mirage 2000 ; Rafale is the easiest for the IAF to adapt

All your points are correct. However by saying that both the teens are "very good", are implying they are better than Rafale or ET? Also add excellent Indo-French relations. :thumb:

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

@p2prada

""¦Rafale is the best fighter plane in the world" – Air Chief Marshal Denis Mercier � Indian Defence Review

I think he forgot about F22.

 

[Zebra]

What if France take 10-15 years to supply few "critical parts" for Rafale also.

Just like Scorpene.

 

[Zebra]

When we compare F/A-18 Super Hornet, which variant we are considering?

The aircraft they offered in MRCA or F/A- 18 Block 3.

 

[p2prada]

@p2prada

Super Hornet and F 16 IN that were offered to India were very good planes

In my opinion The reasons that India rejected US planes and went for Rafale

1 Very little TOT / offsets would have been given by US as compared to France

2 We would have really angered the Russians and put a whole lot of JVs and programmes
both present and Future in danger like Brahmos ; FGFA ; cooperation in Nuclear submarine ;
GLONASS ; Super sukhoi 30

The DRDO still " consults " Russians on some missile programmes

3 The US policy of sanctions at the drop of a hat

4 Finally The French were very keen for a successful sale because the Typhoon had
been exported to the Saudis and Rafale had not been chosen by any foreign buyer till India bought it
Hence we are negotiating very hard for the best possible deal

5 IAF 's love for the Mirage 2000 ; Rafale is the easiest for the IAF to adapt

None of these reasons. F-16IN and SH didn't make the cut because they didn't fulfill requirements. SH was inferior in performance to Rafale and EF. The same with F-16. Both aircraft are 40+ year old technologies and obsolete compared to the Eurocanards. I'm not saying they are not good, but that the Eurocanards are better. In that same respect even Gripen didn't make the cut despite being newer technology.

The Russians have their hands in a lot of projects. The P-15B destroyer, P-17A etc all go to the Russian naval design bureau for final checks. They are present actively in most of our navy projects. Same for the army and the air force and not just DRDO.

The Mirage-2000 had nothing to do with Rafale's victory. All other MRCA aircraft were better than the Mirage-2000 by a pretty large margin. Rafale won because it was better, fulfilled all requirements and in the end was cheaper than Typhoon. If Rafale was British or American, we would have chosen it. It was the aircraft which won the tender, not the country.

 

[p2prada]

I think he forgot about F22.

Not really. The F-22's development is skewed. It has to undergo MLUs in order to match Rafale's avionics.

With the exception of the radar, since the F-22 is a much larger aircraft, the Rafale is far more advanced. You can say the Rafale will be beaten only by the F-35.

However when the Rafale comes up for MLUs it will exceed the F-35 too. Regardless Rafale being the best fighter is numbered.

When we compare F/A-18 Super Hornet, which variant we are considering?

The aircraft they offered in MRCA or F/A- 18 Block 3.

The fictional Block 3.

 

[p2prada]

@p2prada

""¦Rafale is the best fighter plane in the world" – Air Chief Marshal Denis Mercier � Indian Defence Review

This year, all temperature records have been broken in Jodhpur. Did the heat have an impact on the current Garuda exercise?

I have been asked this question already. In fact, the squadron that we deployed is permanently based in the United Arab Emirates. Therefore, the crew was not daunted by the heat in Jodhpur given their everyday experience. I recently went to Africa, where the temperature also reaches 50 degrees. So, one thing that we are certain about is that our aircraft can stand the heat very well, and I am tempted to say, the electronic equipment actually likes the heat. The only limitation in this regard is the human limit. The risk with these staggering heats is human fatigue. But the equipment has no problem, provided it is adequately shielded.

At least they will now shut up about Rafale's hot climate capability.

 

[Dhairya Yadav]

Not really. The F-22's development is skewed. It has to undergo MLUs in order to match Rafale's avionics.

With the exception of the radar, since the F-22 is a much larger aircraft, the Rafale is far more advanced. You can say the Rafale will be beaten only by the F-35.

However when the Rafale comes up for MLUs it will exceed the F-35 too. Regardless Rafale being the best fighter is numbered.

According to you , If we compare Rafale and ET, Which one is better?
I know Im asking a very broad based question, but what do you think personally?
No need to write large paras , a simple rough estimate maybe?
Thank you

 

[Zebra]

At least they will now shut up about Rafale's hot climate capability.

Can it pass Leh trial?

 

[Zebra]

Not really. The F-22's development is skewed. It has to undergo MLUs in order to match Rafale's avionics.

With the exception of the radar, since the F-22 is a much larger aircraft, the Rafale is far more advanced. You can say the Rafale will be beaten only by the F-35.

However when the Rafale comes up for MLUs it will exceed the F-35 too. Regardless Rafale being the best fighter is numbered.



The fictional Block 3.

For you everything is "fictional" other than Rafale, yeah?

Let India order them, we all will see.

Are you ready to test it? That they are "fictional" or not?

 

[PaliwalWarrior]

Rafale deal is in trouble

EFT is giving very good offer

 

[ersakthivel]

At least they will now shut up about Rafale's hot climate capability.

Useless junk piece of news.

The specs that matter are

1. what are the sea level and service ceiling topspeeds,

2.what is the mtow,

3. What is the STR and ITR ,

4.what is the lo -lo deep penetration range , with meaningful load worth the price being paid,

5.And what is the ferry range?

At hot indian 45 deg plus summer indian conditions.

All fighters can "operate" in hot conditions. Question is whether they can achieve their ubber cool brochure specs in this condition.

Which obviously is not possible according to Naval tejas test pilot Joydeep Maolonkar as sadi in aeroindia 2013.

Thats why rafales flying in indian ocen hot climate to reunion islands,with nothing but two external fuel tanks have to suck upto mamma every one and half hour or 1500 Km

And for TOT Ayothulas claiming deeeeeeeeeepppp TOT with every multi billion dollar import deal,

a nice dressing down on the "noble intentions" behind the TOT agreement.

Broadsword: Did Russia delay submarine overhaul to undermine Indian shipyard?

Business Standard has compared the work that Russian "experts" at HSL ordered on the Sindhukirti, with that done on two submarines earlier -- INS Sindhughosh, refitted in Russia; and INS Sindhudhvaj, refitted in the Naval Dockyard, Visakhapatnam (see chart). In each work category, the Sindhukirti has required several times the work done on the Sindhughosh and Sindhudhvaj.

Tellingly, this was not anticipated in the preliminary work estimation, which was in line with earlier refit experiences. Shipyard workers recount (and the figures endorse) that the work only ballooned after it began, with Russian overseers repeatedly ordering work extensions.

Contacted for comments, the defence section of the Russian Embassy in Delhi has not responded.

Furthermore, INS Sindhukirti's refit involved extensive modernisation. Like the Sindhughosh and Sindhudvaj, its torpedo tubes were modified to fire Klub missiles against surface targets. Unlike them, it also got a new MCA inertial navigation suite, a Palady nerve system, and a Pirit ship control console. Bharat Electronics Ltd (BEL) installed indigenous Ushus sonar and upgraded communications. As the submarine was being reassembled, Russian overseers ordered a time-consuming replacement of all the main line cabling.

"When Russia overhauls a submarine, the work package is frozen at the time the contract is signed. But we had no experience of framing a contract. We allowed the Russians to indefinitely increase the work required, which kept expanding," recounts Commodore Ashok Bhal (Retired), director of the Sindhukirti refit.

Russia has historically taken two and a half years or more to refit a Kilo-class submarine. The Sindhukirti will have taken three-and-a-half times longer, with its expanded work package and a series of major modifications and upgrades. Time has also been expended in developing worker skills. It is today the only Indian shipyard that has actually refitted a Kilo-class submarine.

 

[Zebra]

Useless junk piece of news.

The specs that matter are

1. what are the sea level and service ceiling topspeeds,

2.what is the mtow,

3. What is the STR and ITR ,

4.what is the lo -lo deep penetration range , with meaningful load worth the price being paid,

5.And what is the ferry range?

At hot indian 45 deg plus summer indian conditions.

All fighters can "operate" in hot conditions. Question is whether they can achieve their ubber cool brochure specs in this condition.

Which obviously is not possible according to Naval tejas test pilot Joydeep Maolonkar as sadi in aeroindia 2013.

Thats why rafales flying in indian ocen hot climate with nothing but two external fuel tanks have to suck upto mamma every one and half hour or 1500 Km

And for TOT Ayothulas claiming deeeeeeeeeepppp TOT with every multi billion dollar import deal,

a nice dressing down on the "noble intentions" behind the TOT agreement.

Broadsword: Did Russia delay submarine overhaul to undermine Indian shipyard?

These clowns are proving him right, what that Chinese poster did said about Russian and Indian defence deals on DFI.

He said something like....India is an ATM machine for Russia.

Well, I think, he forget to add France in it.

Let me correct him....India is an ATM machine for Russia and France.

 

[p2prada]

[HR][/HR]

Can it pass Leh trial?

Wouldn't have been shortlisted if it couldn't.

All of the jets in IAF service are capable of passing Leh trial.

For you everything is "fictional" other than Rafale, yeah?

Let India order them, we all will see.

Are you ready to test it? That they are "fictional" or not?

Of course SH B3 is fictional. It is not even on the drawing board, it is a concept plane. You can say LCA Mk2 is more real than the Hyped Hornet.

Rafale is as real as can be.

 

[p2prada]

According to you , If we compare Rafale and ET, Which one is better?
I know Im asking a very broad based question, but what do you think personally?
No need to write large paras , a simple rough estimate maybe?
Thank you

For the IAF, it is Rafale. For Germany, it is Typhoon. So it depends on requirements.

 

[halloweene]

According to you , If we compare Rafale and ET, Which one is better?
I know Im asking a very broad based question, but what do you think personally?
No need to write large paras , a simple rough estimate maybe?
Thank you

I suggest you to read armasuisse report, or this condensed version Rafale News: Switzerland, Armasuisse officialy ranks the Rafale first

 

[halloweene]

These clowns are proving him right, what that Chinese poster did said about Russian and Indian defence deals on DFI.

He said something like....India is an ATM machine for Russia.

Well, I think, he forget to add France in it.

Let me correct him....India is an ATM machine for Russia and France.

Refer to Brazilian figues on defesanet maybe?