Know Your 'Rafale'

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

Welcome to my ignore list.

I am not of those coward who run away or include those to ignore list who turns my argument down with link and proofs.
.
anyway enjoy in your dreams.

 

[p2prada]

Nice numbers, just wondering how is possible that you buy the airplane cheaper than the producers....

Rafale : la Défense envisage d'arrêter les commandes à 225 exemplaires

With development cost it is 152€ (204$) without is 101€(135$)

I wanted to expand on the offsets obligation.

Think of it this way. If Rafale deal costs us $30 Billion, which is unrealistic, the offsets package will be $15 Billion. Basically, that's the amount Dassault will have to funnel back into the country, so actual expenditure to India is just $15 Billion.

But if Rafale deal costs $20 Billion, which is really the expected upper limit of the deal, the cost of the actual money spent is just $10 Billion.

Dassault can pay back in terms of technology transfer, for eg: if they think transferring the engine core is worth $500 Million, that amount is becomes part of the offsets obligation and Dassault will have to invest $9.5 Billion more. This way Dassault can make itself liable to pay for most of the offsets and royalty instead. Further Dassault can invest in the civilian sector like setting up a Falcon production line in India which they are working towards with Reliance. >>Link<< All of this comes back to the country. Whatever profits Reliance gets out of this is theirs while generating more jobs in the hi-tech sectors of the country.

So, if the Rafale deal is worth $20 Billion, the actual cost makes each Rafale worth just $80 Million in the long run. And Dassault's investment in the Indian industry is far more than just basic costs since they will be helping build entirely new industries in India, like in the case of Reliance.

There are so many advantages to the MRCA deal that it is quite mind boggling.

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

How is it better than french aesa?

it was posted by twinblade in tejas mk2 thread.
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here it is post number #449 http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/45058-ada-lca-tejas-mark-ii-30.html

 

[abhi_the _gr8_maratha]

there is no advantage of rafale deal as all technologies will be introduced in tejas mk2, super sukhoi, fgfa and amca

 

[ersakthivel]

Russians need not transfer any source code for akash integration. The mission computer and radar computer on SU-30 MKIs which integrate the missile akash with Su-30 MKis is ours not russians. And TD-1 of tejas flew in 2001 well before this 100 percent TOT from russian for Su-30 MKi happened.

 

[ersakthivel]

it was posted by twinblade in tejas mk2 thread.
.
here it is post number #449 http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/45058-ada-lca-tejas-mark-ii-30.html

Dont worry Abi, hear the words of sooth sayer of DFI. We are going to get 90 percent of the money in rafale deal!!!! And HAL which can not produce a tejas SP_1 fast enough is going to pull more rafales in a year than dassault did for the past decade!!!!

HAL is going to produce 108 rafales in 5 years!!!!!. even HAL chief will have a heart attack reading this piece of news!!!

You can pray to God that this is true. Even Gods will have trouble believing such statements.

Truth is we can have 200 F-35s for the cost of 126 rafales and cost of F-35 maintenance will go on reducing as more and more are produced. And more upgrades will be on the way as there are many user nations.

But it is exactly the reverse for rafale besides french who are reducing their rafale orders due to high cost we will be the only one in the world operating this in higher number. SO MLUS and spares will keep on increasing in cost.

Think of it this way. If Rafale deal costs us $30 Billion, which is unrealistic, the offsets package will be $15 Billion. Basically, that's the amount Dassault will have to funnel back into the country, so actual expenditure to India is just $15 Billion.

Really??!!. So as cost of rafale is going to increase indian govt is making a big profit!!!!

Is this the new age definition of offsets? .

AFAIK 50 percent of the money should be invested in india as offset. Not donated as charity to india. DID the MMS govt change that?

So as rafale invests those 15 billion dollars in manufacturing facitlity and other TOTs , we are going to pay them back that amount.

But some dorks here don't even understand that!!!!

First thinng that the next CAG should do is to investigate the circumstances surrounding the GOI letting the 2012 financial package deadline by MMRCA competitors expire. Because this is what pinching the IAF right now.

Dassault quoted a far lower price earlier. But from 2004 to 2015 we are keeping on evaluating and deal making , we left the financial package dead line to expire!!!!!. That is why now the deal cost is ballooning with no hopes for the deal .

How could the GOI and IAF be oblivious to such crucial facts?

 

[halloweene]

Why would India buy the Rafale combat aircraft rejected by every other interested country—Brazil, Canada, the Netherlands, Norway, South Korea, Singapore, and even the cash-rich but not particularly discriminating Saudi Arabia and Morocco?

So Canada rejected Rafale? When? Morocco is a cash rich country? Good news for Morocco! Btw which or the abovementioned countries DO need an efficient Airforce as India do? Wrong facts, unconsidered environment....

Alas, the first whiff of corruption led the previous defence minister, A K Antony, to seize up and shut shop, stranding the deal at the price negotiation committee stage

Which striff of corruption? The author is closing to defamation... Should source as a "Research Professor" (without phD ??? Which university is part of this institute? )

Absent the India deal, the Rafale production line will close down

At best the author is ignorant. French Min Def announced a 5th tranche in january, 2014

For 36 Rafales the acquisition cost, according to Brazilian media, was $8.2 billion plus an additional $4 billion for short-period maintenance contracts, amounting to nearly $340 million per aircraft in this package and roughly $209 million as the price tag for a single Rafale without maintenance support
.

I'm confused, are prices quoted with or without support? What is short period? What is the source apart an unknown source in one article in a brazilian newspaper? I thought, according to indian press that price quoted was something like 17M$ with ten years support? How can a "Professor" be so unprecise (or at least take unsourced numbers with a pinch of salt)?

But the Brazilian air force had doubts about the quality of the AESA (active electronically scanned array) radar enabling the aircraft to switch quickly from air-to-air to air-to-ground mode in flight, and about the helmet-mounted heads-up-display. Too high a price and too many problems convinced the government of president Dilma Rousseff that the Rafale was not worth the trouble or the money and junked the deal, opting for the Swedish Gripen NG instead.

So let me understand : opting for a yet undevelopped AESA radar is safer than opting for an operational one? (Btw, accelerating the switch from A2A to A2G modes is part of F3.4 intermediate standard coming in 2016, so will be included on indian planes) . Again spammming unsourced rumours isn't very "professional". WHO said there are porbs of integration for a HMD? WHERE?

which more than doubled from $10 billion in 2009 to some $22 billion today, and which figure realistically will exceed $30 billion, or $238 million per aircraft, at a minimum

Again, source? What doese it include? Lifetime maintenance? ToT? Industiralization? Weapons? Or not? Again unsourced speculations.

Meanwhile, the United Kingdom, an apparently poorer state or at least one more careful with its money, is blanching at the $190 million price tag for each of the 60 Lockheed F-35Bs (vertical take-off, technologically more complex, variant of the air force model)—a full generation ahead of the Rafale—ordered for the first of the Royal Navy's Queen Elizabeth-class 65,000-tonne aircraft carriers.

Wondering how the author can give a cost for an order that do not exist yet. What has the QE class size to do with it (especially as there will probably be about 15 planes on it)? As the rest, pure speculation... Oh btw, define full generation ahead please...

The prohibitive cost of the French aircraft supposedly made finance-cum-defence minister Arun Jaitley apprehensive. He did the right thing, as is rumoured, of revising the order downwards from 126 aircraft to 80 or so Rafales

Asserting facts from its own previous speculations . Also approving what Mr Jaitley "DID" then saying "as rumoured". Nothing weird in this logic?

Because in contracts involving high-value combat aircraft, the size of the order does not much affect the unit price, the cost of spares and service support

I'm baffled. Either LM has been lying us with their "scale economy" (and then the author is wrong on F-35 costs) for years or there can be scale economy. Would be grateful is author could help me here.

This is evident from the rough estimates of the per aircraft cost to Brazil of $209 million for 36 Rafales compared with the $238 million for 126 of the same aircraft to India!

For the n'th time, the author is driving definitve conclusions from his own spceulations based on general newspaper unsourced numbers...

The problem is not in itself the contents on the article (which reflects a misinformed but respectable opinion). The problem is the author is signing a paper claiming he is an academics without using ANY of academic standards. This is confusing and unhealthy.

 

[p2prada]

So Canada rejected Rafale? When? Morocco is a cash rich country? Good news for Morocco! Btw which or the abovementioned countries DO need an efficient Airforce as India do? Wrong facts, unconsidered environment....

The threat perceptions of all those countries are the exact opposite to that of India's, except maybe South Korea. But even with B52 F-16s they will be more advanced than the North Koreans for the next 20 years. And the Koreans always buy American.

The problem is not in itself the contents on the article (which reflects a misinformed but respectable opinion). The problem is the author is signing a paper claiming he is an academics without using ANY of academic standards. This is confusing and unhealthy.

That's true. This article was written by Bharat Karnad.

Bharat Karnad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is obviously his least impressive work.

 

[halloweene]

About what you asked P2, your numbers are accurate, but you forgot the industrialization costs

 

[p2prada]

About what you asked P2, your numbers are accurate, but you forgot the industrialization costs

That should be a billion.

 

[ersakthivel]

.

I don't know how they quickly counting Numbers oh money.

all the above news is BS

if above true France has supa dupa GDP

can you explain how the UPA govt let the financial bids to expire that has led to price doubling from 10 billion in 2009 to 20 billion now? Thats what bharath Karnad is referring to as scam.

from 2004 IAF and UPA govt took their own sweet time and let the gravy train called MMRCA run oblivious to the fact that the financial bid is going to expire in 2009.

critics sharpening their sword on a few years delay in tejas IOC should explain this grave error of judgement(or will full omission on the part of IAF and MMRCA to select the winner by 2009 and conclude the deal before financial bid was to expire.)

If it is not for this error of judgement on part of UPA and IAF to conclude the deal in boom economic growth years at half the cost which is leading to all the troubles now.

By the judging from your latest posts in BR you still have not got the range of tejas mk-1 right , despite Vivek Ahuja's technical reply to it!!!!

By IOC-2 tejas mk-1 was cleared with just two drop tanks. Its ferry range was 1700 Km as per PIB release in IOC-2.

You your self has posted that with two external fuel tanks rafale needed a total of four mid air refuelling for the 10000 Km reunion island flight. That means roughly 2000 Km ferry range with just two drop tanks for rafale(taking into account that it would have taken off with full fuel in france itself).

So you yourself can now judge that there is no acute range shortage in tejas mk-1 itself opposed to many claims of excess drag in tejas by many critics.

In tejas mk2 internal fuel fraction will inch further close to rafale. So at best there would be around 25 percent range shortage compared to rafale is my opinion. Not very big considering the price and presence of 270 odd Su-30 MKI.

ANd rafale production rate in france is nothing to write home it seems.

comments from Admiral Prakash ---

"I don't know how much clarity there is in our air force. Take the MMRCA. If we go by the air force's choice of the Rafale, which is 85 million dollars apiece, then buying 126 copies of that aircraft is going to cost 120 lakh crores (INR). Which is almost half the budget. Was that a wise decision? At the same time we're also continuously criticizing our indigenous industry – for good reason. But the big question is for how long are we going to afford buying from abroad?" – Admiral (retd.) Arun Prakash

"I think we have to come down to ground and temper our vision and our doctrine etc, with the fact that anything that we imagine is going to become unaffordable and we have no choice – absolutely no choice but to build it in India

that is Admiral's comment assuming 85 million dollar per plane!!!

If you take into account the recent mirage-2000 upgrade which is costing 80 percent of the original plane cost, You can imagine what will be the total lifecycle cost of rafale deal.


$20 billions - $157 million/plane
$30 billions - $238 millions/plane

why would India should spend that much money and destabilize whole defence budget for the next decade.Brand new F-16 sells for $50 millions and F-18 sells for $60 millions and both come fully equipped...

Unless Dassault establishes a full fledged manufacturing facilities and transfers 100% TOT and MOT,, it is not worth the cost.France is in recession and Dassault is facing production stoppage for rafale due to cuts from french airforce,so we should bargain hard for full transfer of technology and may be joint production under new defense procurement policy...


Spending $20 to 30 billions and not getting TOT and MOT is really very foolish decision

 

[ersakthivel]

http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/314-iaf-mirage-2000-a-3.html


Ha, ha, Ha, Ha,

Guess who is extolling the low wing loading RSS airframe's plus points!!!!!

Now as per group captain and award winnin test pilot Suneeth krishna's statement even in mk-1 version tejas is "at least " equal to upgraded mirage-2000.

tejas has even lower wing loading and a cranked delta with digital fly by wire leading the upgraded mirage-2000 in all the three segments

Specs aren't everything. The new RDY-3 radar on the Mirage-2000 is a generation ahead of the BARS. I am primarily talking about the Mirage-2000s ability to deliver strike packages. I made some changes in the list too.

The Mirages delta wing design and its low wing loading makes it highly maneuverable in dog fights. It turns quickly, climbs and descends quickly too.

When the Americans brought F-16s for Cope India exercises, it was the Mirage-2000s which were punishing the F-16s and not the Su-30k.

As for the work over kargil, the fighters needed to fly upto 30000ft and drop down into a steep dive by 10000ft and delivery the package and pull up before the enemy fires their MANPADS. Fighting the thin air and turbulence is not something a Mig-27 or jag can do. Again, the characteristic of the delta wing design. Had the Pakistanis had SAMs, even the Mirage-2000s would have found it difficult while the SAMs would have plucked the Jags and Mig-27s from the air easily. Even the MKI would have difficulty in such situations.

The MKI is an excellent bird in the air. It's airframe is designed for high drag, similar to the Mirage-2000. But, its weight and the engine power restrictions will create problems when it comes to pulling up after a bombing run.

Also, the IAF dropped only 9 250kg LGBs(2250kg) over Kargil while the rest of the packages were dumb bombs. The total ordnance dropped amounted to 55000+kg. So, the total LGBs dropped was only 4% of the total. Out of 9 LGBs, 8 were dropped by Mirages and 1 by a Jaguar.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Rafale's superiority over typhoon In indian MMRCA evaluation

The Rafale had also scored well in the technical evaluation for the MMRCA competition and its EW capability, sensor fusion and ability to attack more than one ground target in an attack run in particular. Typhoon will need to reach SRP 12 before it can attack multiple ground targets. SRP 10 was due in 2011 and SRP 12 in 2012 but to my knowledge no production aircraft have yet received SRP 10.

Eurofighter Typhoon Guide « Articles « Fast Air Photography

 

[Drsomnath999]

an OLD BUT SUPERB ARTICLE on

Stealth Rafale, by Thibault Lamidel

It's a real sea serpent Birth Rafale asked a question for the future of the French aviation., And if it was the last hunter national design? Answer yes to this question, it was possible to rule out a hunter fifth generation fighter designed in France.

The fifth generation, how many divisions? One can easily include the F-22 Raptor ... Just like the F-117 and the (mythic) F-35 on the American side. From Russia, the former (?) Grand is not left with the "attempt" to achieving a hunter could be described as the fifth generation. It is the role of the prototype Sukhoi T-50. This will require further confirmation of what this program can do. And the Chinese side, an anonymous reader of this blog reported on an attempt with the "J-XX". There is a "number" of photographs of a device that you stick the name. In the state of knowledge, it is difficult to certify anything ... By cons, remember the "transfer" of Israeli IAI Lavi program to China in the 80's (after the American refusal Israel developed this program). A number of Chinese designs have a close kinship of the transfer unrecognized. It would be interesting to know if Israeli researchers really work on a Chinese stealth fighter ... Just as it is hard not to mention some "black projects" still secret side of Shunk Works Lockheed Martin.

The fifth generation

It follows the very rich fourth generation that understands different levels according to the authors, journals and the passing of time (also called well 4+, 4 ++ or other). The new generation must take precedence over the old with new capabilities. Let's talk kind discussed least: better integration of sensors and data fusion capabilities of network warfare and "super cruise". For the first two abilities, they are not strictly exclusive to the new generation. Hence the diversity of appreciation of what a fourth generation device. The Rafale is a good example of a device of this generation who performs data fusion and makes it difficult its ranking. The super cruise is the ability for a device to cruise at supersonic speed without engaging afterburners. With the F-22 and T-50 that is illustrated by the "heavy" reactors (more than 13 tons of thrust unit, almost double the Rafale). This ability not only mechanics we (me) seems not critical.

If we consider the fifth generation as the culmination of integrated weapons and the rule of electronics that takes over the mechanical systems, the ability to super cruise is rather a reminder of the need for platforms capable to face the air environment and its challenges. And not only used to be an "elevator computer." However, this ability is of course not uninteresting in practice.

Compared to the previous generation, the main change restraint device that belongs to this category is the "stealth". Why talk mainly about that? Above, we said that the rapidly evolving electronic weapons systems was not confined solely to a weapon system. And also just because it is the most spectacular feature. It was she who pushes to redraw the aircraft fuselage. And so, in the collective imagination, that's what best illustrates the passage from one generation to another. Think the difference between a squadron escort, stealth frigate and the first generation Swedish Visby corvette (which would be the second generation).

The Rafale is not stealth originally but "discrete". That is to say, a particular attention has been paid to the design of the cell and its electronic warfare system to reduce its signature and the risks they are detected. But to be stealthy, it should seek to try to virtually disappear (not just reduce) the three main signature of an aircraft:

I)radar stealth: reducing the "radar cross section" of a device, that is to say, what appears on a radar screen. And discrete or make stealth operation of the weapon system so it does not make the device detectable by its operation;

II)infrared stealth (reduce the infrared signature left by reactors).

III)electronic stealth (the weapon system works undetected or participate in the disappearance of the unit by removing the electronic atmosphere).
acoustic discretion will ask one day. For now, the devices which claim the fifth generation tend to have heavy reactors (more than 13 tons of thrust on average). It may be ask the question to make discreet ear too. It is not essential for an airplane

Therefore, the only definition, stand two main axes for r aking (or design) a stealth aircraft:

A) work on the general structure of the device to meet the "laws of stealth";

B) the design of an active cancellation system
Disappear from the electronic atmosphere, is the motto of stealth.

The active cancellation system

It is common to distinguish between devices that attempt the challenge of stealth only by their external form. The result is spectacular because of the unconventional forms it imposes. However, stealth could also be achieved by a system of electronic jamming. Gilles CORLOBE we translated the definition of active cancellation given by Aviation Week :

The active suppression means to prevent a radar to detect a target by sending a signal with the same frequency as the received, but offset precisely one-half the signal wavelength. Result: the energy reaching the radar has no frequency can be detected and

Aviation Week Article goes on to note the (or a) attempts where American engineers have tried to add this asset to the stealth B-2. They are also not only because it is paid here and there attempts to get it to the Russians. And many of the works are French Dassault Aviation and Thales are rented to develop this technique to the point that rumors venture to say that the system would be an integral part of SPECTRA from the F2 standard.

The above article helps reframe the debate by suggesting that the French would be advanced as justifying the funding of a "demonstrator"
The fact that a new demonstration is planned, suggests that the technology may not have been worth the first time [the article refers to the supposed capabilities of SPECTRA in the 90s]. But as the active suppression uses electronics and processing, it could have changed. MBDA and Thales, which absorbed Dassault Electronique and is now responsible for the development of Spectra, have since confirmed they are working on active suppression for missiles

Therefore, the interest if the confirmation came, would be that France could be the tip of a key development of stealth technology. An electronic warfare system has the advantage of allowing some freedom to design a stealth cell. This work by being heavy and expensive kind ... It would be a terrible snub against the American program (F-117, B-2, F-22 and F-35) and Russian (PAK-FA or T-50).

Little comment timeless: military aviation competition point would amount to three players (American, Russian and French)? That would be the consecration of a new hierarchy (it is aimed almost nobody).

But is it possible to bet everything on one electronic aspect stealth, and thus refuse to commit to creating a naturally stealthy cell?
" French government is funding a demonstration of Improved stealth technology for the Dassault Rafale fighter " , says Aviation Week .
Besides, nothing says that will be the " demonstrator "Rafale, or if the demonstration is limited to only e ...

A stealth Rafale with forms?

Therefore, the other for stealth would be to design a fighter so that it meets its requirements cell. It would be almost the need to develop a new device like the F-22 or T-50, assuming that the active cancellation would not give a greater than or equal to a stealth engine advantage. However, it is not necessary to specify that it is almost impossible to develop a new French fighter before a few long years. We will not write one reason out of respect for our readers (the budget!). But if France is developing an intermediate solution in electronic warfare to compensate for the inability to launch a fighter of the fifth generation, will not there be an interim solution to adapt an existing cell program as much as possible?

It is therefore necessary to have one of developments designed for the F-15. The venerable American hunter (including Golden Eagle will remain in service until 2030 as reported by the blog of the legendary aircraft ) was the subject of a study of improved stealth. Under the sweet name of "Silent Eagle", it is about making the F-15 stealth more (or discrete). What are the solutions chosen by Boeing?

Note the missile carriage in tanks in accordance converted into internal bay.
The most spectacular is the new solution using tanks in accordance with the Eagle. These two tanks under the wings of the aircraft are intended primarily to carry extra fuel. If they are told in line is that they are designed to be integrated airframe so that disruptions to a minimum aerodynamic drag of the unit. These tanks are intended as internal bay. So that, in clean configuration, the device has less radar cross section (RCS) by the internal carriage of weapons. This modification of the cell is accompanied by another somewhat less dramatically. Both deviations of Silent Eagle are inclined 15 ° to the outside. In this way the design of the device is similar to that of the Raptor.

Finally, other changes will be closer to what has been done in France. One of them is the use of a radar wave absorbing coating. The Rafale is likely to be painted with a paint having the same role (like Tiger) but French appliance will benefit only for "special occasions." Finally, the latest solutions involve electronics with a new APG-63 radar and electronic warfare system that tend, perhaps, to play the same role as the SPECTRA described above.

So try to apply the American study the Rafale. Work on the SPECTRA and evolution of RBE2 to EASA is already underway. The existence of a stealth paint for the Rafale allows for a starting point towards a stealth coating (expensive, judging by the maintenance of this coating to B-2 and F-22).

This leaves the issue of structural changes. The vertical stabilizer of the Rafale might be hamper the search for stealth. But it is a reportable element of the cell. So, it is conceivable to find a way to turn this drift without causing structural modification impossible.

Note the hump in the back of the cockpit, midway between the junction of the wing and the back of the Rafale.

And how to get a smooth configuration of the Rafale with internal weapons carriage? The Rafale has seen him grow to the study of two dorsal tanks compliant. Is it fatal? It is possible that not, some aircraft saw the capacity study of missile hanging from their backs, such as the revaluation of Jaguar to India. It may be conceivable, therefore, do the same job but on Boeing CFT [Conformal Fuel Tanks] dorsal Rafale. The solution may seem dramatic, but it would not be more than for the Silent Eagle. In reality, it is the unconventional side that will surprise. Moreover, to return to more conventional, it would not be unreasonable to propose the creation of a ventral CFT.

Trimming the proposals to close

The sum of the proposals in its technical aspects, is to retain the active cancellation capabilities developed in France and coupling with increased job discretion on the cell for the Rafale. It is therefore tried to approach by stealth two solutions that can be qualified intermediaries (recalling the active cancellation seems to be a technological challenge). The interest in creating a prototype stealth Rafale is technique.

It will not be hard to say that the Air Force (and Navy) are not a priority to form a squadron or two fleets with a stealth version Rafale. Therefore it will be proper to be proved that this stealth Rafale would be more expensive than Rafale base. Indeed, the cost of developing the SPECTRA and stealth paint are already committed. Be doubted that the integration of various solutions is disproportionately expensive compared to a conventional version of the Rafale. The evolution of the Silent Eagle will be decisive for the future of this kind of middle ground. These two devices are, in a way, an attempt to achieve stealth cheaply.

But it is also a political gamble. Only the United States and Russia have now developed the so-called fifth generation aircraft (for stealth). If France, even symbolically, joined this elite club, she would draw a distinct political advantage.

In addition, for the existence of French military aviation industry would be a flagship flamboyant. And allow France to support its policy of arming the symbolism of belonging to large. So upset the world rankings as the Russians did with the T-50 ... and the Chinese who could spring a surprise with the J-XX program when they are requested to reveal the state of their abilities in the world ...

And expansion to the sixth generation

Faced with the difficulties of the fifth generation, the United States will not waste their time and are already talking about a "sixth generation". This is what seriously tells Joseph Henrotin in this article . There is talk of pushing more logic reign of electronics in this generation. But the distinction with the "back" is not obvious as shown by the author. And we invite you to read also views as grave site defensa.org which chronicles the case of the sixth generation with a touch of humor.

Mon Blog Défense: Le Rafale furtif, par Thibault Lamidel

 

[Drsomnath999]

FROM AIR & COSMOS MAGAZINE 2329- SPECTRA WITH GaN TECH

FRENCH

Le GaN passe en bande X

Un démonstrateur d'émetteur Spectra au nitrure de gallium est attendu en 2014.




Dans les laboratoires de la fonderie UMS, detenue a parts egales par EADS et Thales, une revolution se prepare. Des l'an prochain, une filiére de production de semi-conducteurs au nitrure de gallium (GaN) en bande X devrait etre qualifiee. C'est une premiere pour l'Europe.


Depuis cette annee, UMS etait deja parvenu a maitriser la production de compo-sants GaN fonctionnant en bande S, visant notamment le marche de la gamme de radars Ground Master de Thales.

Mais la realisation d'elements en bande X restait jusqu'alors l'apanage des Etats-Unis. Pour l'heure, les radars a antenne active developpes en Europe, comme le RBE2-AESA du Rafale, utili-sent des composants en arseniure de gallium (GaAs) comme ampEifi-cateurs hyperfrequences en bande X. "A taille equiva-lente, le GaN amene la promesse d'un gain de facteur 5 sur la puissance emise", explique l'ingenieur en chef de l'armement Xavier Grison, de la

Direction generale de l'armement. C'est done bien l'avenir des radars aeroportes qui se joue sur cette revolution techno-logique. "Avec le GaAs, la marge de progression est faible et les radars actuels sont deja a leur limite haute en termes de
performances", ajoute l'ingenieur.



Le GaN en bande X qualifie en 2013.

Depuis plusieurs annees, a la faveur de programmes d'etudes amont (PEA) successifs, la Direction generale de l'armement a favorise l'emergence de cette technologie. Le dernier PEA en date, baptise Ganiméde, doit aboutir a la realisation de prototypes de composants en bande X representatifs de ceux qui pourront etre utilises dans un systeme operationnel. Au titre du calendrier actuel, cette etape devrait etre atteinte d'ici deux a trois ans. Mais des l'an prochain, la filiére GaN sera deja qualifiee, ce qui signifie que le processus industriel sera maitrise et que les performances ainsi que la fiabilite du composant auront été clairement caracterisées

ENGLISH

[SIZE = "4"][COLOR = "blue"] GaN X-band passes

A transmitter Spectra demonstrator GaN is expected in 2014.[/COLOR][/SIZE]




In laboratories UMS foundry, has detained being equal EADS and Thales shares, a revolution is preparing. The next year, a production of semiconductor gallium nitride (GaN) X-band should be characterized. This is a first for Europe.


Since that year, UMS was already succeeded to master the production of compo-nents operating in S-band GaN, including walking to the range of Thales Ground Master radars.

- But the realization of elements X-band remained hitherto the preserve of the United States. For now, the active antenna radar has developed in Europe as the RBE2-AESA Rafale are in use feels component of gallium arsenide (GaAs) as ampEifi-ers hyperfrequences X-band "A slow-Equiva size GaN brings the promise of a gain factor of 5 on the power emitted, "said the chief engineer of armaments Xavier Grison, the

Directorate General of Armaments. It's done well the future of airborne radar that is played on this techno-logical revolution. "With the GaAs, the room for improvement is low and the current radars are already at their upper limit in terms of
performance, "added the engineer.

-

GaN X-band calls in 2013.

For several years, favored by upstream studies programs (EAP) successive, the Directorate General of Armaments has fosters the emergence of this technology. The final PEA dated baptizes Ganymede, should lead to the realization of prototype X-band components representative of those that will be used in an operational system. Under the current schedule, this step should be reached within two to three years. But next year, the sector GaN is already qualified, which means that the manufacturing process is mastered and the performance and reliability of the component have been clearly characterized

FRENCH
Restera a trouver l'application qui permettra au GaN de prendre son envoi et d'assurer un plan de charge significatif a UMS. Par rapport au GaAs, qui s'était rapidement impose dans les telecommunications sans fil, le GaN presente moins de debouches potentiels dans le civil. Selon Xavier Grison, il faudra attendre au moins cinq ans avant de voir de premieres applications opera-tionnelles du GaN sur des systemes aeroportes.






Faire évoluer Spectra.

Mais le Rafale bénéficiera indéniablement de la technologie GaN à plus ou moins long terme. Déjà, un PEA baptisé InCas (Intégration de nouvelles capacités à Spectra) étudie le remplacement des émetteurs au GaAs actuels par des émetteurs au GaN. Dans le cadre de ce PEA, un démonstrateur d'émetteur Spectra au GaN est attendu fin 2014. Le gain potentiel se situe au niveau de l'augmentation de la puissance d'emission, du rendement et de la largeur de bande couverte.

Ici encore, la mise en production de tels systemes reste liee au timing des evolutions Rafale et n'est pas attendue avant la prochaine decennie. Encore plus futuriste, mais tout

aussi plausible : le remplacement des radars de pointe avant actuels par des antennes conformes, véritables "peaux" intelligentes qui pourraient être facilement disséminées sur la cellule et combineraient des fonctions radars, brouillage, communications...

A plus court terme, estime-t-on à la DGA, c'est du côté de brouilleurs terrestres anti-IED ou d'autres systèmes de leurrage que les composants GaN pourraient trouver leur première application opérationnelle. De son côté, l'industrie civile pourrait adhérer à la technologie pour développer des composants de puissance destinés aux stations de base pour téléphones mobiles, par exemple. Le secteur spatial est lui aussi intéressé : l'ESA et le Cnes ont contribué à financer certains développements autour du GaN et sa possible "spatialisation", en vue d'une utilisation dans de futurs satellites de communication. En Europe, UMS est la seule chance de voir émerger une filière industrielle complètement indépendante dans le domaine du GaN. Le défi est d'importance puisque, comme ils l'avaient fait pour le GaAs, les Etats-Unis n'hésitent pas à appliquer un embargo sur les circuits au GaN.

Côté britannique, la fonderie RFMD (qui fournit entre autres les modules d'émission-réception utilisés par les radars AESA de Selex Galileo) a réussi à acquérir son indépendance dans le domaine du GaAs - mais n'affiche pas de volonté de développer une filière GaN en Europe.

Guillaume Steuer

ENGLISH

Will find the application that will allow GaN to make sending and ensure a significant workload UMS. Compared to GaAs, which was quickly needed in the wireless telecommunications, GaN presents fewer potential market outlets in civilian life. According to Xavier Grison, it will take at least five years before we see opera-tional First applications of GaN on airborne systems.

Changing Spectra.

But undeniably benefit the Rafale GaN technology in the longer term. Already a PEA called Incas (Integration of new capabilities to Spectra) examines the replacement of existing GaAs emitters by issuers GaN. As part of this PEA, a transmitter Spectra demonstrator GaN is expected end of 2014 the potential gain is at the increasing power of emission, performance and breadth of covered band.


Again, the commissioning of such systems remains bound to the timing of evolutions Rafale and is not expected until the next decade. Even more futuristic, but

also possible: replacing existing radars nose by antennas compliant real smart "skins" that could be easily spread over the cell and combine radar functions, jamming communications ...

In the shorter term, says do we DGA is on the side of anti-IED or other decoy systems that GaN components could find their first operational application terrestrial jammers. For its part, the civilian industry could join the technology to develop power components for base stations for mobile phones, for example. The space sector is also interested: ESA and CNES have helped fund some developments around the GaN and its possible "spatial", for use in future communications satellites. In Europe, UMS is the only chance to see the emergence of a completely independent industrial sector in the field of GaN. The challenge is important because, as they had done for GaAs, the United States did not hesitate to apply an embargo on GaN circuits.


British side, molding RFMD (which provides among other transceiver used by AESA radars from Selex Galileo modules) managed to gain independence in the field of GaAs - but displays no desire to develop a die GaN Europe.

William Steuer

 

[Pulkit]

"The Rafale Deal Should Be Scrapped And Renegotiated" : SWAMY | idrw.org
The BJP's stormy petrel Subramanian Swamy has for long been publicly opposed to the $22 billion Rafale deal, to the point of even suggesting that there was more to the UPA government's choice than met the eye. In February 2012,The Sunday Times of London quoted Swamy as saying he had initially been told the Eurofighter had won the deal to supply 126 fighter jets but that it all changed after the entry of a veteran French consultant, Bernard Baiocco, an ex-employee of the defence firm Thales, which contributes radar and electronic systems to Rafale. "Baiocco was here (in Delhi) and he went around, and everything changed after that," Swamy had said, explaining the UPA's sudden change of heart. With the Modi government poised to indicate its choice, Swamy spoke to <strong>Pranay Sharma</strong>
<strong>What do you think of the Rafale deal?</strong>
It stinks right through. The deal should be frozen or scrapped and negotiations for the MMRCA should begin afresh.
<strong>Why do you say this?</strong>
There are a number of reasons but foremost Rafale was finalised not through commercial negotiation; it was done by private conversations between Sonia Gandhi, her sisters and Carla Bruni, wife of then French president Nicolas Sarkozy.
<strong>Your other objections</strong>
No country outside France has so far bought the Rafale. Some countries had shortlisted it, but rejected it later. We must find out why they did so. We must also know why it is so much more expensive than the other competitors. With the kind of money India has pledged to buy the planes, it can actually buy over the entire company that makes them. Moreover, there are also reports that it is trying to win the contract by giving a subcontract to an influential Indian industrialist. In addition, its performance in terms of fuel consumption etc was much higher and unimpressive during the recent Libyan campaign.
<strong>So what should be done about the Rafale deal?</strong>
I had written to the UPA defence minister A.K. Antony citing reports and the information on the Sonia Gandhi family's link with Carla Bruni. Being an honorable man sensitive about his image and reputation, Antony had frozen negotiations with Rafale. I am not sure why Arun Jaitley decided to defreeze it.
<strong>The BJP's in power. Will you ask for Rafale deal to be scrapped?</strong>
We have a party meeting coming up in a few days. I will raise the issue not only with defence minister Jaitley but also with PM Narendra Modi. I'll definitely bring it to their notice

 

[Ashutosh Lokhande]

"The Rafale Deal Should Be Scrapped And Renegotiated" : SWAMY | idrw.org
The BJP's stormy petrel Subramanian Swamy has for long been publicly opposed to the $22 billion Rafale deal, to the point of even suggesting that there was more to the UPA government's choice than met the eye. In February 2012,The Sunday Times of London quoted Swamy as saying he had initially been told the Eurofighter had won the deal to supply 126 fighter jets but that it all changed after the entry of a veteran French consultant, Bernard Baiocco, an ex-employee of the defence firm Thales, which contributes radar and electronic systems to Rafale. "Baiocco was here (in Delhi) and he went around, and everything changed after that," Swamy had said, explaining the UPA's sudden change of heart. With the Modi government poised to indicate its choice, Swamy spoke to <strong>Pranay Sharma</strong>
<strong>What do you think of the Rafale deal?</strong>
It stinks right through. The deal should be frozen or scrapped and negotiations for the MMRCA should begin afresh.
<strong>Why do you say this?</strong>
There are a number of reasons but foremost Rafale was finalised not through commercial negotiation; it was done by private conversations between Sonia Gandhi, her sisters and Carla Bruni, wife of then French president Nicolas Sarkozy.
<strong>Your other objections</strong>
No country outside France has so far bought the Rafale. Some countries had shortlisted it, but rejected it later. We must find out why they did so. We must also know why it is so much more expensive than the other competitors. With the kind of money India has pledged to buy the planes, it can actually buy over the entire company that makes them. Moreover, there are also reports that it is trying to win the contract by giving a subcontract to an influential Indian industrialist. In addition, its performance in terms of fuel consumption etc was much higher and unimpressive during the recent Libyan campaign.
<strong>So what should be done about the Rafale deal?</strong>
I had written to the UPA defence minister A.K. Antony citing reports and the information on the Sonia Gandhi family's link with Carla Bruni. Being an honorable man sensitive about his image and reputation, Antony had frozen negotiations with Rafale. I am not sure why Arun Jaitley decided to defreeze it.
<strong>The BJP's in power. Will you ask for Rafale deal to be scrapped?</strong>
We have a party meeting coming up in a few days. I will raise the issue not only with defence minister Jaitley but also with PM Narendra Modi. I'll definitely bring it to their notice

this man wont relax till he sees sonia gandhi behind bars thats for sure.

 

[Singh]

this man wont relax till he sees sonia gandhi behind bars thats for sure.

Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy credited the outcome of the confidence vote to "three great ladies" -- Sonia Gandhi, J Jayalalitha and Mayawati -- describing them as Lakshmi, Saraswati and Durga.


Rediff On The NeT: Swamy likens Sonia, Jaya, Mayawati to divinity

 

[Pulkit]

Janata Party president Subramanian Swamy credited the outcome of the confidence vote to "three great ladies" -- Sonia Gandhi, J Jayalalitha and Mayawati -- describing them as Lakshmi, Saraswati and Durga.


Rediff On The NeT: Swamy likens Sonia, Jaya, Mayawati to divinity

@Ashutosh Lokhande

:thumb:

 

[bhramos]

Negotiation on for Rafale aircraft: India | Big News Network