Know Your 'Rafale'

[Drsomnath999]

Threads merged.

oh god plz dont do it plzz

the substance of my thread would be lost

this is totally unethical how can someone be so immoral against someone's hard work

SHAME

 

[Defcon 1]

oh god plz dont do it plzz

the substance of my thread would be lost

this is totally unethical how can someone be so immoral against someone's hard work

SHAME

Hehehehehehehhehe

 

[Drsomnath999]

Hehehehehehehhehe

thanks for all these

i hope by doing this you feel greatly releived

atleast i could make someone happy

CHEERS

 

[Punya Pratap]

If at all IAf-MOD combine wanted to enter into a JV for higher powered brand engine with higher dia and weight equivalent to GE-414 they could have got it by holding Mirage-2000 and rafale deal as a bait.

It would be useful for Snecma also as JV gives a bigger engine with higher thrust.
They chose to do nothing offering lame excuses.

Thanks ersakthivel for answering Defcon on my behalf.... Defcon, living in Jodhpur means that I live in a small town with a small DRDO Lab and a big IAF front line base so I know things you would never know! Also thankfully coming from Jodhpur means I know my manners which you coming from Lucknow don't which is surprising since Lucknow is famous for its Tehzeeb !!

 

[Defcon 1]

thanks for all these

i hope by doing this you feel greatly releived

atleast i could make someone happy

CHEERS

Don't get emotional sirjee. Its good that the threads have been merged. Now at least the people who are serious will be able to find those links since "Know your Rafale" is an sticky thread. Google visibility of your content won't be affected by merging. As for armchair generals, do you think if they had actually bothered to read all the openly available information, they would have been making such claims? So merging is good, for guys who actually want to read those links as it makes them easy to find.

Cheers.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Don't get emotional sirjee. Its good that the threads have been merged. Now at least the people who are serious will be able to find those links since "Know your Rafale" is an sticky thread. Google visibility of your content won't be affected by merging. As for armchair generals, do you think if they had actually bothered to read all the openly available information, they would have been making such claims? So merging is good, for guys who actually want to read those links as it makes them easy to find.

Cheers.

wow
you are so caring & intelligient i must say
as if people cant find the links separately on another separate thread

CHEERS

 

[Defcon 1]

Thanks ersakthivel for answering Defcon on my behalf.... Defcon, living in Jodhpur means that I live in a small town with a small DRDO Lab and a big IAF front line base so I know things you would never know! Also thankfully coming from Jodhpur means I know my manners which you coming from Lucknow don't which is surprising since Lucknow is famous for its Tehzeeb !!

Google defence facilities in Lucknow. I learnt swimming in HAL campus. Anyways. These things are not relevant here. This is not a thread for LCA vs Rafale. Before teaching about manners to others, it will do you a lot good to read stuff, blaming a defence force of corruption because it did not order your favorite product is not considered good manners. Grow up.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Google defence facilities in Lucknow. I learnt swimming in HAL campus. Anyways. These things are not relevant here. This is not a thread for LCA vs Rafale. Before teaching about manners to others, it will do you a lot good to read stuff, blaming a defence force of corruption because it did not order your favorite product is not considered good manners. Grow up.

Tut tut Defcon. ... While you "read" stuff I got to "talk" stuff with chaps from Jodhpur IAF and retired DRDO Employees. Obviously I shouldn't hope you will know what I know so I am wasting my time. I understand now that with people like you I will have to put things in simple statement instead of allusions! !

 

[Defcon 1]

Tut tut Defcon. ... While you "read" stuff I got to "talk" stuff with chaps from Jodhpur IAF and retired DRDO Employees. Obviously I shouldn't hope you will know what I know so I am wasting my time. I understand now that with people like you I will have to put things in simple statement instead of allusions! !

And what do you know kid? What have you presented here other than a 2010 link? Please put the stuff that you got to "talk" in a simple statement. I am waiting.

 

[Punya Pratap]

And what do you know kid? What have you presented here other than a 2010 link? Please put the stuff that you got to "talk" in a simple statement. I am waiting.

Go read my previous posts and then come ask me.... maybe I will tell you how and why NAK Browne became an Ambassador amongst other things. You need to understand that defence deals has lots of variables that defy your logic... There are stuff general public is not supposed to know.

 

[Defcon 1]

Go read my previous posts and then come ask me.... maybe I will tell you how and why NAK Browne became an Ambassador amongst other things. You need to understand that defence deals has lots of variables that defy your logic... There are stuff general public is not supposed to know.

I have read all your posts and replied to them kid. I didn't hide behind my city and lied about knowing inside information when I could not defend my point logically. You don't know anything about how defence deals work. You have been telling me about the necessity to buy 300 engines, and how about defence related information being confidential like its such a big thing. It alone told me about your mental development. You claimed K10 will make Tejas a complete package, yet you have zero knowledge about its performance, then you started diverting topic to NAK Browne and Subramanium Swamy, and still you are talking about Browne, because thats the last resort of a troll, when failed to defend his point, simply lie about having inside knowledge so that the other person cannot contradict. Keep trying.

Btw: Where is your stuff that you "talked" to IAF guys and were going to put in a simple statement here? The problem is people like you don't deserve to be treated with any kind of manners at all. I should have treated you like a troll instead of a newbie from the beginning. Welcome to my ignore list.

 

[Punya Pratap]

I have read all your posts and replied to them kid. I didn't hide behind my city and lied about knowing inside information when I could not defend my point logically. You don't know anything about how defence deals work. You have been telling me about the necessity to buy 300 engines, and how about defence related information being confidential like its such a big thing. It alone told me about your mental development. You claimed K10 will make Tejas a complete package, yet you have zero knowledge about its performance, then you started diverting topic to NAK Browne and Subramanium Swamy, and still you are talking about Browne, because thats the last resort of a troll, when failed to defend his point, simply lie about having inside knowledge so that the other person cannot contradict. Keep trying.

Btw: Where is your stuff that you "talked" to IAF guys and were going to put in a simple statement here? The problem is people like you don't deserve to be treated with any kind of manners at all. I should have treated you like a troll instead of a newbie from the beginning. Welcome to my ignore list.

Defcon, K10 was always going to be a Jv not a sole DRDO effort ( K9 )unlike your statement in previous post. K10 had the quickest development time potential due to the fact that it would have been simply marrying an existing Eco core to Kaveri unlike your statement that it would have taken ages and there by jettisoned Tejas. K 10 Project Jv with Snecma started after kaveri was already delinked from Tejas so by raising objections to k 10 development IAF only saved Rafael. Dates of delinking was 2008 & k 10 was 2010 the same year of the link I posted. Snecma was earnest in the early stages and then State MOD even gave a statement to that effect. Only when IAF told Snecma of its grand game of swinging a deal for Rafael did Snecma start dithering. . Hell they were even supplying GTRE SCB's earlier for kaveri.

I wish MOD had taken the offer of P&W offer for Jv to develop kaveri. An indigenously developed 90/110 kn thrust engine was what k 10 was going to be.

As for how a k 10 would have made Tejas a complete package... it would have by now become an export material and no airforce in the world can junk a fighter with an indigenous 90/110 kn engine that is in great demand from foreign countries.

The attitude of IAF towards Tejas has baffled IN who are the people who saved Tejas along with TATA not the IAF. Retired head of IN like Arun Prakash have publicly voiced their opinion which you can Google and read since you are fond of reading. The Tejas mk 2 which is IN Configuration is what IAF now wants while it dint want to even fund the project.

As for your ignore list I am sure its growing coz you are like the ostrich that will shove it's head in the sand rather than see things.

PS As for my statement regarding Swamy, he is like Digvijay Singh who even though dint have any ministerial post has an important role given by his party. Like Digvijay Swamy is licensed by his party ti wash dirty laundry in public so if he says Rafael stinks than he knows why and how. By the way Digvijay was extremely powerful so don't think a ministerial post equals a politicians Aukat... he was the guru of Pappu after all.

 

[p2prada]

Conclusion ::::: THE OBJECTIONS OF IAF WAS FOR THE ENGINING OF TEJAS

It was decided half a decade ago that Kaveri won't go on LCA. This decision was taken by ADA, not IAF.

GTRE tried pushing for K-10 on LCA Mk2 and that also failed. ADA couldn't simply wait for them to finish the development of the new engine.

 

[Defcon 1]

It was decided half a decade ago that Kaveri won't go on LCA. This decision was taken by ADA, not IAF.

GTRE tried pushing for K-10 on LCA Mk2 and that also failed. ADA couldn't simply wait for them to finish the development of the new engine.

I wish IAF had the power to make such decisions, then this whole MMRCA drama wouldn't have taken place. We would be flying 126 Mirages happily

 

[pmaitra]

Re: why RBE2 aesa radar was the safest bet for india in MMRCA evaluat

@pmaitra
Kindly merge this thread to Know your Rafale thread. It contains numerous links which will be useful for reference later. Thanks.

oh god plz dont do it plzz

the substance of my thread would be lost

this is totally unethical how can someone be so immoral against someone's hard work

SHAME

This couldn't have been such a bad idea. Two threads with a lot of information on the same subject are better kept together. Why get so emotional about it?

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: why RBE2 aesa radar was the safest bet for india in MMRCA evaluat

This couldn't have been such a bad idea. Two threads with a lot of information on the same subject are better kept together. Why get so emotional about it?

Better keep them separate pmaitra,

because SOmnath's Know your rafale thread is strictly technical and very useful.

But the other thread discusses potential plus and minus of rafale to indian mil aviation sector and indian airforce.

So for proper discussion's sake they should be kept separate.

If some one wants to know exact details of rafale they can visit Somnath's thread.

By merging them it will lead to bitter cat fights that will ruin the beauty of Know your rafale thread.

All cat fights can be transferred to MMRCA rafale thread , so that gladiators can fight it out.

 

[SajeevJino]

.

Good Job @pmaitra Sir

the Rafale thread covers almost all aspects of Rafale Keep This in a Single thread makes easy to find out

 

[Punya Pratap]

It was decided half a decade ago that Kaveri won't go on LCA. This decision was taken by ADA, not IAF.

GTRE tried pushing for K-10 on LCA Mk2 and that also failed. ADA couldn't simply wait for them to finish the development of the new engine.

P2prada you are stating exactly what I have said in my earlier post kaveri was delinked 2008 and k 10 jv engine proposed in 2010. Your half a decade coincides with the time frames given by me.
I am astonished however with some well read people blaming DRDO for k10 failure which was always going to be a Jv. I guess they claim to be well read when they aren't and call others fools for their own ignorance regarding the facts.

 

[Punya Pratap]

For further understanding of the drama around K10 and the 15 years/5 years development tie given then please read the below link :

DRDO gets nod for French tie-up for Kaveri project - The Hindu

Also a good piece by Appu K Soman to throw more light :

The Failed Negotiations with Snecma for Engine Technology

 

[p2prada]

P2prada you are stating exactly what I have said in my earlier post kaveri was delinked 2008 and k 10 jv engine proposed in 2010. Your half a decade coincides with the time frames given by me.
I am astonished however with some well read people blaming DRDO for k10 failure which was always going to be a Jv. I guess they claim to be well read when they aren't and call others fools for their own ignorance regarding the facts.

Actually, the K-10 was a fiasco. What GTRE wanted was Snecma would simply develop the entire engine and transfer the license to HAL for manufacturing. They wanted screwdriver technology. It wasn't a JV, it was something like the Volvo RM-12, where the entire engine is basically American.

IAF didn't like this, so they asked GTRE to modernize the Kaveri by themselves. That's how the deal fell through. As of today it is not clear where K-10 really is.