Know Your 'Rafale'

Killzone

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28 Billion over 40 years is 222 million a plane for 126 fighters??? sorry this is not acceptable by any standards, even the Dutch during their evaluation of the Rafale had a similar figure of around 240 million per plane over 40 years for a smaller order, we're getting the same costs even while having local manufacture and some basic TOT. I don't buy this buttery BS. 28 billion should the life cycle costs of 200 fighters and that would be acceptable but the same number for just a 126 fighters is criminal.
That's quite acceptable actually. MoD is not looking at your standards.


..:: India Strategic ::. Air Force: IAF decides on 144 Fifth Generation Fighters

FGFA is expected to cost $30 billion for 144 planes/That is around $208 mil a plane!!
So cost of developing and buying 144 5th gen platforms is less than cost of owning 126 4.5 gen platforms.
Just doesn't make sense unless we get deep TOT,specially when we have no real need of Rafale.We can easily induct other planes we are familiar with to make up the numbers.
 
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DivineHeretic

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..:: India Strategic ::. Air Force: IAF decides on 144 Fifth Generation Fighters

FGFA is expected to cost $30 billion for 144 planes/That is around $208 mil a plane!!
So cost of developing and buying 144 5th gen platforms is less than cost of owning 126 4.5 gen platforms.
Just doesn't make sense unless we get deep TOT,specially when we have no real need of Rafale.We can easily induct other planes we are familiar with to make up the numbers.
You are comparing the takeaway cost of the FGFA with the life cycle cost of the Rafale.....Big difference.
 

Killzone

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You are comparing the takeaway cost of the FGFA with the life cycle cost of the Rafale.....Big difference.
older tech

I compared it to drive home the point that that lifecycle cost can be used to procure more 5th gen platforms.
What does Rafale offer us besides TOT ?
We already have superiority over PAF and deterrence against PLAAF.
If we just need numbers it makes more sense to go for MKIs/Mig-29s while inducting Tejas asap
We don't need Rafale until and unless we get significant amount of technology.
 

Glint

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I compared it to drive home the point that that lifecycle cost can be used to procure more 5th gen platforms.
What does Rafale offer us besides TOT?
We already have superiority over PAF and deterrence against PLAAF.
If we just need numbers it makes more sense to go for MKIs/Mig-29s while inducting Tejas asap
We don't need Rafale until and unless we get significant amount of technology.
Whatever BS you just wrote makes me think you don't know anything about a multirole combat aircraft.
I honestly have no idea where to start.

"What does Rafale offer us besides TOT?"

Isn't it enough? What else do you need exactly? French pilots flying for India too?

Combat performance

The Rafale has already proven itself in three different wars. In Afghanistan, it performed numerous ground strikes against the Taliban, sometimes with GBU-12 Paveway II bombs used against Taliban caves. In Libya, it successfully evaded Qaddafi's woefully obsolete 1960s-vintage Soviet air defense systems and led the fight against his regime. Most recently, in Mali, the Rafale flew long distances to perform strikes against Islamic insurgents.

Thus, the Rafale is a veteran of three wars despite entering service only a little more than a decade ago, a stark distinction to all of its competitors except the Super Hornet, none of which have seen any combat whatsoever, even against obsolete Soviet air defense systems or insurgents unable to contest control of the air.

Armament, sensors, power plant, aerodynamic and kinematic performance

-The Rafale can carry more ordnance than any of its competitors, hands down. The Air Force variants (B and C) have 14, and the Navy (M) variant, 13 hardpoints. By contrast, the F-35 can carry only 4 munitions (e.g. missiles) while in its stealthy mode; the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet and the F-16 can carry only 11, and the Su-35 twelve.

-For air-to-air combat, the Rafale's two principal missiles are the MBDA's MICA (missile interception, combat and self-defense) and Meteor. The MICA is intended for short and medium range combat, with a nominal range of 80 kms, and has both electromagnetic and infrared seekers. The Meteor, with a 160 km range, is a radar-guided long-range (Beyond Visual Range) ramjet-powered missile similar to the American AIM-120D AMRAAM. The principal difference, of course, is the Meteor's ramjet engine.

-Furthermore, the Rafale has one of the biggest gun on the market (ex aequo with Sukhoi aircraft): a hefty 30mm GIAT gun firing incendiary rounds. This makes the Rafale an excellent choice for both air to air and air to ground combat, as its 30mm rounds would provide excellent support for troops on the ground. 30mm is the caliber of the guns of most APCs and IFVs.

-For air to ground combat, the Rafale can carry the GBU-12 and GBU-49 Paveway II, the GBU-24 Paveway III, the Sagem AASM bomb (with a range of 55 meters and a CEP of less than 1 meter, designed to attack both static and mobile targets), the MBDA Apache and Scalp-EG cruise missiles (designed for attacking targets such as the runways of heavily defended airfields from a distance outside the range of their air defense systems), the Exocet AM39 anti-ship transonic cruise missile, and the forementioned ASMP and ASMP-A stealthy nuclear-armed cruise missiles.

-The Dassault Rafale is a relatively small, light airplane. Therefore, it isn't surprising that its wing loading ratio (the ratio of its weight compared to its wingspace) is just 306 kg/sq m, the second lowest ratio on the market after the JAS-39 Gripen. Its combat radius is also impressive – 1,852 kilometers, again, the second-best in the market trailing only the F-15C/D. The Rafale also has an excellent rate of climb – 304 m/s, i.e. 60,000 ft/min. This means the plane can climb to its service ceiling (55,000 ft) in a minute.

-The plane's two SNECMA MM-2 turbofan engines provide a dry thrust of 50.4 kN each, or 75.62 kN (17,000 lbf) each on afterburner. This gives the plane a very good thrust/weight ratio of 0.988:1 in full combat load – unheard of for a modern fighter, and fully competitive even with 5th generation American, Russian, and Chinese fighters.

-The one thing that somewhat lets the Rafale down – other than its 55,000 ft ceiling – is its speed of Mach 1.8, compared to Mach 2 or more for most other fighters. However, its principal competitor, the F-35, is worse at just Mach 1.61 and 43,000 ft. Moreover, it is not a mechanical flaw, but rather the product of a deliberate design aimed to optimize the Rafale for the by far predominant type of aerial combat – namely, close, within visual range combat. In that regime of A2A warfare, neither speed nor ceiling would be a significant issue; the predominant factors are agility, pilot visibility, sensors, gun caliber, and the quality and quantity of WVR, infrared-guided missiles

-IR-guided WVR missiles typically have a Probability of Kill of 74%, according to research by Air Power Australia. Therefore, if a Rafale fighter begins a mission armed with 2 Meteor and 12 MICA missiles, then, even if its 2 Meteors hit nothing, its 12 MICA missiles will at least hit 7 to 8 enemy aircrafts.


I would have wrote more about it but lets get to the second part

"We already have superiority over PAF and deterrence against PLAAF"

Never in your life underestimate your enemy. PAF may be inferior but has some excellent pilots and combat records.

"If we just need numbers it makes more sense to go for MKIs/Mig-29s while inducting Tejas asap"

This isn't a game where soldiers get unlimited lives. If your air force is not ready then you're going to lose a lot of good men. Indian Air force doesn't want that does it. That doesn't mean Migs and Tejas are not up to the par but which plane would you bet on? Rafale or Migs? That's a total different topic anyways.

"We don't need Rafale until and unless we get significant amount of technology."

What does that even mean? We need rafale for the same reason to get significant amount of good technology

The Air force needed the fighter for some reason didn't it.
 

Drsomnath999

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We may not get this tech though. .
1st the deal has not been signed yet ,so it may not be right to predict such kind of things until & unless we know what would be the content of the deal &
would india be included in all rafale's upgrades programme??

2nd I am talking basically about Rafale's spectra system as a whole india has nothing to do with it

Even the French are expected to get it in 2020
NOPE!!

thats too much of pessimistic astrology & nothing else





The Russians or the Swedish may be the first to get GaN based radars and EW suite before 2018..
I dont know who would be the 1st to have GaN Radar ,but what i found from sources which i had posted earliear that french would be fielding a GaN protype SPECTRA in 2014 so it would be easiear for us to assume that french may be 1st to field an operational ready GaN EW suite just like an operational ready RBE 2 AESA radar while others still on protypes

CHEERS





]
 

prohumanity

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IAF should just crap the buying of Rafael due to delays and cost exacerbation. Just cancel the whole contract outright. Now, that Russian Rouble is cheaper and geopolitics fast changing, India should buy SU-35 ,just like what China is doing. With France, we can not be sure if they can be depended upon in case of war with any Nato favorite such as Paki or Saudi. Reliability and cost ,now go in favor of Russian jets.
 

Killzone

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Whatever BS you just wrote makes me think you don't know anything about a multirole combat aircraft.
I honestly have no idea where to start.


First of all , please loose the attitude.
I am not looking to debate with a frustu who wants to blow some steam.
Cut out the bitchiness
Give respect to get respect and all that.
As you are accusing me to having no idea about MMRCAs, it would've been cool if you had given your credentials before launching your diatribe. but oh well.
You can do it now.

"What does Rafale offer us besides TOT?"

Isn't it enough? What else do you need exactly? French pilots flying for India too?

The point was Rafale being a 4.5 gen platform does not bring significant advantages to IAF to justify huge capital expenditure, not just on buying the palne but creating new infra, training ground crew and pilots, making new tactics based on a new platforms strengths etc.

Please do research and you 'll find that what I said is true, HAL wants tech for AMCA more than IAF wants a plane from this deal.

Which was why MMRCA was launched in the first place, instead of buying Mirages like IAF wanted to do back in 2002(IIRC) when need for a MMRCA was first raised.





"We already have superiority over PAF and deterrence against PLAAF"

Never in your life underestimate your enemy. PAF may be inferior but has some excellent pilots and combat records.
Buying more 4.5 gen platforms at 5 th gen prices when what we have is already superior to the enemy is counterproductive.
How does this fact equate to underestimating PAF ? Pray tell me.
As I said if its just about numbers then we should look to induct what we already got in more numbers.

I am talking about optimizing resources.What we have is enough to get job done.Why spend money on another expensive platform that will get obsolete the moment PAF gets a 5th gen bird of its own ?Please don't turn it into a literal argument :)

Our resources can be better spent elsewhere,like Tejas FGFA,AMCA unless Rafale brings technology to the party.


"If we just need numbers it makes more sense to go for MKIs/Mig-29s while inducting Tejas asap"

This isn't a game where soldiers get unlimited lives. If your air force is not ready then you're going to lose a lot of good men. Indian Air force doesn't want that does it. That doesn't mean Migs and Tejas are not up to the par but which plane would you bet on? Rafale or Migs? That's a total different topic anyways.
Please spare me emotional guff about soldiers lives and what not.
We are discussing the most efficient use of our limited resources.
126 Rafale is not a magic bullet that will somehow keep all our soldiers from dying.
Another combination of planes for same price may give us more bang for our buck.
Which obviously means less soldiers dying, doesn't it ?



"We don't need Rafale until and unless we get significant amount of technology."

What does that even mean? We need rafale for the same reason to get significant amount of good technology

The Air force needed the fighter for some reason didn't it.
It means what it says.
Read slowly if you have to.
Air force wanted the Rafale at 2008 prices.

If can come to a mutually viable solution then everythings fine and dandy.Otherwise we should look elsewhere.
Which was the point in my earlier post.

Long story short-126 Rafale at $30 billion ?
You better give a lotta tech Dassult or we're out


P.S Skipped the fanboy-ish "it can do this and it can do that".
Cuz it was not the point of contention in the first place.
 
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Glint

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"First of all ,loose the attitude.I am not looking to debate with a frustu who wants to blow some steam.
Loose the bitchiness


Calling in BS about the stuff you're writing is bi*ching? Wow you must be really fun to talk :)

"The point was Rafale being a 4.5 gen platform does not bring significant advantages to IAF to justify huge capital expenditure, not just on buying creating new infra, training ground crew and pilot, making tactics etc."

-The whole point of Rafale being selected was that. Indian Air Force didn't want to depend its entire air fleet on a single supplier.

-The Rafale was also selected because it had the advantage of being logistically and operationally similar to the Mirage 2000.

-The Mig 35 was not selected because the sale of RD-93 engines (a variant of the Klimov RD-33 that powers the Indian MiG-29s) to Pakistan for its JF-17 Thunder aircraft and concurrently supplying combat aircraft to China by Russia, Which caused concern in New Delhi so the political pressure also played a part

"Dassault and French govt. are desperate for an international order and are trying to leverage more concessions."

Well this is the reason i called BS in the first place. The main reason the Mirage was withdraw from the MRCA was because its production line was closing.

"when what we have is already superior to the enemy comes along is counterproductive."

- Sorry to break it to you like this but this is called underestimating the enemy.
-There have been combat records about inferior aircraft's shooting down better ones, this of course doesn't mean they are better but it shows taking them lightly is not a wise decision.

"Please spare me emotional guff about soldiers lives and what not. We are discussing the most efficient use of our limited resources."

-If you were not as ignorant as you are you would get the fact that soldiers are limited resources too.

"126 Rafale is not a magic bullet that will somehow keep our all soldiers from dying.
Any other combination of planes may give us more bang for our buck.Which means less soldiers dying."


-126 Rafales are not gonna stop our soldiers from dying but it would significantly decrease the number
-Any other combination? That would just increase the time to get a grip on the aircraft, like i said earlier.
-Indian Air Force choose Rafale cause they have a history with French Fighters and they were avoiding to be fully depended on Russians.
-The Gripen and F16/18 have no history in the Air Force cause India never used an American or Swedish fighter.

".They are not as willing as Russians about sharing technologies.

-I guess you missed the part in your research which says "research harder"
-French government has cleared full technology transfer of the Rafale to India, including that of the RBE2-AA AESA radar which will be integrated into the Rafale and also the transfer of software source code, which will allow Indian scientists to re-programme a radar or any sensitive equipment if needed.without the software source code, the Indian Air Force would have to specify mission parameters to foreign manufacturers to enable configuration of their radar, seriously compromising security in the process.

P.S Skipped the fanboy-ish it can do this and it can do that.
Cuz it was not the point of contention in the first place.


-I was giving the information which describes the aircraft and why the Air Force choose it. Its funny you find it fanboy-ish cause you're the one just sucking up to Russian Aircraft's

Peace, Hope i helped :)
 

p2prada

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..:: India Strategic ::. Air Force: IAF decides on 144 Fifth Generation Fighters

FGFA is expected to cost $30 billion for 144 planes/That is around $208 mil a plane!!
So cost of developing and buying 144 5th gen platforms is less than cost of owning 126 4.5 gen platforms.
Just doesn't make sense unless we get deep TOT,specially when we have no real need of Rafale.We can easily induct other planes we are familiar with to make up the numbers.
The $30 Billion cost was media generated in 2010. The idea was that PAKFA costs $100 Million as told by Putin and we planned on spending $5 Billion for development. So, that's $25 Billion for 250 aircraft and $5 Billion for R&D. Total $30 billion.

It is not an official figure.
 

p2prada

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1st the deal has not been signed yet ,so it may not be right to predict such kind of things until & unless we know what would be the content of the deal &
would india be included in all rafale's upgrades programme??
A thorough understanding of how our contracts work will tell you that we cannot add more equipment outside of what was negotiated in the current contract. Meaning, the GaN is happening now and is outside the framework of the contract. It was no different with the MKI.

But when we start negotiating for MLUs after 2025, that's when we will add new equipment on Rafale. Apparently, India will be included in the discussions for Rafale MLUs.

2nd I am talking basically about Rafale's spectra system as a whole india has nothing to do with it
I am mostly interested in what India is getting on the Rafale.

NOPE!!

thats too much of pessimistic astrology & nothing else
Post 2020 is the official date for Spectra's GaN upgrade program. MLUs are apparently scheduled in 2023. It is not pessimistic. It is an optimistic date, since early flight tests are yet to begin. Only a demonstrator is set to fly this year.
 

halloweene

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A source close to the file (i think we should use an acrony laike SCTTF? As we are constantly using those words) told me that not including india in midlife upgrade program would be a non-sense.
 

Drsomnath999

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A thorough understanding of how our contracts work will tell you that we cannot add more equipment outside of what was negotiated in the current contract. Meaning, the GaN is happening now and is outside the framework of the contract. It was no different with the MKI.
& that too no body knows what has been negotiated in the current contract as it has not been sign yet & what would be indian version of Rafale like MKI??





I am mostly interested in what India is getting on the Rafale.
& My post are not dependent on interest of one specific member .I post for all readers













Post 2020 is the official date for Spectra's GaN upgrade program. MLUs are apparently scheduled in 2023. It is not pessimistic. It is an optimistic date, since early flight tests are yet to begin. Only a demonstrator is set to fly this year.
Thats Bruno 's info from
le portail des passionnés de l'aviation: Visite de Le Drian à Mérignac : Des avancées majeures pour le Rafale, mais pas que...

But PEA INCAS ((INtegration de nouvelles CApacités a Spectra), was for F3R upgrade officially announced for 2018

A few months earlier (last February), risk-reduction activities were announced for the F-3R version of Rafale to be available from 2018 which, in addition to the Thales PDL-NG targeting pod and the long-range MBDA Meteor air-to-air missile, will also introduce new enhancements to the Spectra. This is part of the spiral upgrade programme, which in the latest research and development stage is also known as Incas (INtegration de nouvelles CApacit̩s a Spectra), provides improved detection and jamming and introduces the latest version of transmitter modules Рnot only on the RBE2 radar but also in the Spectra suite. In addition to shared computer resources, the aesa radar could in the longer term be used as part of the self-protection capabilities.
Aircraft Self-protection Against Sophistication - Armada

CHEERS
 

Drsomnath999

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A source close to the file (i think we should use an acrony laike SCTTF? As we are constantly using those words) told me that not including india in midlife upgrade program would be a non-sense.
YEah

it would be more for india as we must have latest improvements of rafale on our side in future also to retain our combat edge over our adversaries

CHEERS
 

p2prada

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Selex Raven radar is GaAs based. Gripen NG EW suite will be using GaN, that is right. But not flying this year...
Saab announced GaN plans for NG. And NG is planned to be ready in 2018. I don't know whether they have planned it far into the future or to be fielded in 2018, for that we just have to wait and watch.

Gripen will get a big capability boost if they end up with radar and EW suite with GaN by 2018.

As for F-18 and Rafale data fusion, compare these sentences from an independant test pilot who flew both types :

With :
It is true. SH sensor fusion is not as good. But both Indian sources and Russian sources have said Mig-35 has sensor fusion. As a matter of fact, the earliest form of sensor fusion was available on the Su-27 since the 1980s with their radar+OLS combo. The OLS was slaved to the radar. Plenty of cases where radar and OLS picture were combined for the missile's advantage, especially when enemy aircraft would hide in clouds. It was no different with Mig-29 and the sensor fusion between the pilot and the missile via the HMS.

A source close to the file (i think we should use an acrony laike SCTTF? As we are constantly using those words) told me that not including india in midlife upgrade program would be a non-sense.
Yes. Adding India in the mix would bring down costs considerably. Especially considering we plan on inducting the same amount of aircraft France already has in half the time.

But I believe French MLUs are to be done starting from 2023, I think you said that on this forum. But IAF's Rafale MLUs won't happen until the end of 2030. So, configurations may differ vastly, especially if there are plans to build a Rafale NG, then IAF Rafales would incorporate technologies from NG.

If IAF Rafales in 2030 get the same upgrade as French Rafales in 2023, while France has a NG program, then we will end up getting the short end of the stick. But I doubt that would happen.

& that too no body knows what has been negotiated in the current contract as it has not been sign yet & what would be indian version of Rafale like MKI??
Contract negotiation and configuration was done many months ago. After that comes ToT and industrial production negotiations. After that comes the formalities of signing the contract.

The final configuration of Rafale would already have been finalized a long time ago.

& My post are not dependent on interest of one specific member .I post for all readers
Whatever the case, my interest in only in the Indian version of Rafale. That's why my first post you replied to said that we won't be getting this tech. And my post wasn't aimed at you either, it was aimed at all the readers. It would be of interest for the others to know that we won't be getting GaN based Spectra right away. This GaN upgrade would have interested me a few years ago, but if we are not getting it, then it is always good to point out such a possibility.

If it turns out that we are indeed getting the next gen Spectra, then that's good news.

Thats Bruno 's info from
le portail des passionnés de l'aviation: Visite de Le Drian à Mérignac : Des avancées majeures pour le Rafale, mais pas que...

But PEA INCAS ((INtegration de nouvelles CApacités a Spectra), was for F3R upgrade officially announced for 2018


Aircraft Self-protection Against Sophistication - Armada

CHEERS
Whatever the case, officially it was announced as 2020, 2018 is good too. Just because French Rafale will have GaN modules doesn't mean Indian Rafales will have GaN modules as well.
 

Immanuel

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Yeah, the SH doesn't have the same Sensor Fusion as the Rafale for now but with Large Panel Displays, new MAWS, Laser Warning system, IRST and Stealth pods, the SH is bound to have the best Sensor fusion by 2017.

I do understand that the Rafale is a cutting edge bird but the price as I say time again is just not right to me the cost of 220+ million per bird over 40 years is just far too much while the Fleet adds no added savings as well. For roughly the same cost we'd have 200 SH Internationals with GE F414 EPEs. The mod will probably not look at our standards but obviously the price rise is the reason why in terms of MOD the deal is stalled. HAL and Dassault might be making head way in finding the way forward but all the don't mean squat till the deal is signed (if and ever).

As far as the Rafale is concerned the cost of Meteor, AASM also means these weapons will most likely not be acquired, they cost a ton to acquire in huge numbers. If acquired the Rafale should have mostly Israeli, US & Indian weapons, weapons like Griffin Mk-3, Paveways, CBU-105SFW cans of whupp ass, Sudharshans, SWAK GPS guided glide bomb, Astra Mk-2, Python-5, SDB hopefully by then Brahmos mini, Lakshya Mini, etc in its arsenal.
 

p2prada

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I do understand that the Rafale is a cutting edge bird but the price as I say time again is just not right to me the cost of 220+ million per bird over 40 years is just far too much while the Fleet adds no added savings as well. For roughly the same cost we'd have 200 SH Internationals with GE F414 EPEs.
No, we won't. SH B3 will come at a very high expense to the IAF. It could very well be more expensive than Rafale.

You are confusing the B2 with the B3 that was offered.

As far as the Rafale is concerned the cost of Meteor, AASM also means these weapons will most likely not be acquired, they cost a ton to acquire in huge numbers. If acquired the Rafale should have mostly Israeli, US & Indian weapons, weapons like Griffin Mk-3, Paveways, CBU-105SFW cans of whupp ass, Sudharshans, SWAK GPS guided glide bomb, Astra Mk-2, Python-5, SDB hopefully by then Brahmos mini, Lakshya Mini, etc in its arsenal.
Yeah, one of the contractual demands is the addition of non-French weapons to Rafale. But we will also buy Meteor and AASM and use them against high value targets. MBDA has offered Meteor to the IAF for other aircraft as well.
 

Immanuel

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nah... The SH block 3 won't be of great additional cost considering the upgrades aren't drastic enough to change the price of the SH tremondously, the aircraft itself will cost around 65-70 million, keep in mind the production rate is much higher with Boeing churning out 42 fighters a year. Also the upgrades are being funded by USN, I doubt very much the life cycle cost of 200 SH inlcuding TOT required as of the RFP will cost more than 28 billion. The life cycle cost per fighter for the SH B3 will be much lower than the Rafale. Also engine commnality with LCA mk-2 will bring in much more savings
 

halloweene

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nah upgrades are entirely Boeing self funded (and nice upgrades btw.). Once again, you are comparing fly away off the shelf costs and total acquisition costs.
And yo uwouldn't get the same extent of ToT?
.How do you know the life cycle of SH B3 would be much lower than RAfales? How do you know about a "28 billions" a single press article citing unnamed source?
 

Dark Sorrow

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older tech

I compared it to drive home the point that that life-cycle cost can be used to procure more 5th gen platforms.
Which 5th gen ready made platforms is available to us. We just can't keep waiting as technology continues to improve. Its like waiting for a technologically advanced phone. At this moment FGFA and AMCA both are in drawing board and we don't know a thing about there capabilities.
We already have superiority over PAF and deterrence against PLAAF.
No we don't have superiority over PAF. That is a false belief. PAF/PA has to defend a small area. They just have 2 population core areas one near Karachi and other near Lahore and that is what they need to defend. Their ground based AD is very much concentrated. F-16s are very capable planes and JF-17 can hold on their own for some time.
On the other hand we have to defend a large area with population spread across the country. Our Air Defense has gaps and also we need to look out for PLAAF. Currently the situation is not against us but also not in our favor.
If we just need numbers it makes more sense to go for MKIs/Mig-29s while inducting Tejas asap
We don't need Rafale until and unless we get significant amount of technology.
With Rafale we do get significant amount of technological advantage. Don't compare MKI to Rafale!!! Rafale does enjoy edge over MKI. Don't even compare Tejas or MiG 29 with Rafale.
 

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