Know Your 'Rafale'

[sukhish]

That is true ... And sad considering there's no link between finmecanicca and Dassault. That said, it has no impact on negotiation process advances.

with next government, nothing can be said, out of MMRCA, russian T-50 and AMACA, one has to go. it's just not possible to have these many programes.

 

[p2prada]

with next government, nothing can be said, out of MMRCA, russian T-50 and AMACA, one has to go. it's just not possible to have these many programes.

All three programs will run because all three are important and all three have entirely different induction timelines.

 

[Jyotishsr007]

with next government, nothing can be said, out of MMRCA, russian T-50 and AMACA, one has to go. it's just not possible to have these many programes.

If the above said situation is true I would vote for sacking MMRCA deal. MRCA started as a stop gap measure for filling the void created by outdated Mig-21 with Mirage 2000. with IOC of Tejas there is hope for attaining Sqn number eventhough it is not such a potent fighter like Rafale. However, by concentrating that money on Tejas it can be improved into a better better fighting platform and moreover it makes financial sense in having lesser varitey of aircrafts to perform the same role. For air superiority we already have Su-30MKIs. LCA Mk1 and Mk2 can perform all the roles presently done by MIG-21 and Mirage 2000s.

There is no doubt that Rafale is a better aircraft compared to LCA tejas owing to it dual engine, avionics, super cruise, low RCS feature and weapon carrying capacity. IFF there is no other option than selecting to let go one of the projects it must be Rafale that is going out.

It must also be noted that the govt must not yeild to the whims and fancies of IAF and Army to scuttle the indegenisation process citing war preparedness. Arjun MBT vs FMBT is a good example of that. Army still wants to import T-90 tanks in huge numbers but want to put a break to the production line of Arjun tanks even after displaying its superiority over the T-90s. Same can be expected for LCA tejas from IAF. The only option to circumvent this situation is to cut down the option for imports and financing the indegenisation effort.

 

[halloweene]

Point is ToT acquired within MMRCA could be of much use for AMCA... And we are talking about real ToT here, including training of people etc.

 

[rajsking]

Point is ToT acquired within MMRCA could be of much use for AMCA... And we are talking about real ToT here, including training of people etc.

Before the news of sharp increase in contract price, I was of the opinion, that the deal is taking time as France is reluctant for ToT and have doubts about HAL's production capability.
If you insist that France is offering real ToT, then I wonder why this delay has happened.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Samtel, General Dynamics sign Rs 500-cr agreement


General Dynamics Canada, has signed a cooperation agreement with Samtel Avionics Ltd, to co-produce digital displays in India for a range of military and non-military vehicles worldwide.

For General Dynamics, buffeted like most western suppliers by sharp budget cuts, manufacturing in India cuts costs. For Samtel Avionics, struggling to sell in an Indian procurement market where sales have not matched expectations, a strong international customer like General Dynamics provides a welcome hedge.

The partnership will produce multi-function displays (MFDs) for armoured and reconnaissance vehicles, and for civilian use in utility vehicles like those used for garbage collection. The displays give the vehicle crew 360-degree situational awareness, sitting inside the vehicle. Computing systems built into the displays convert the signals from externally mounted sensors onto easy-to-see visual displays on digital screens inside.

Both firms say the tie-up targets a range of prospective orders from the Indian ministry of defence (MoD). This includes 7,800 displays for some 2,600 future infantry combat vehicles (FICVs); 2,800 displays for 1,400 light armoured multi-purpose vehicles (LAMVs); 1,500 displays for the upgrading of the BMP-2 infantry combat vehicle (ICV); and 2,400 displays for upgrading the T-72 tank.

"We will have displays designed and ready for these contracts, as and when they come up," Craig Jansen, Vice President, General Dynamics, told Business Standard. He also hopes to offer Samtel-built displays for artillery guns being developed in India, and for the M777 ultralight howitzer being procured from BAE Systems.

Industry sources estimate the potential foreseeable orders are worth at least Rs 500 crore. Samtel Avionics hopes to build Rs 100 crore worth of displays each year for General Dynamics' domestic and international markets by 2015-16.

Puneet Kaura, Executive Director, Samtel Avionics, describes the cooperation agreement as part of a "push-and-pull strategy". By building products in India for General Dynamics' global programmes, the company will position itself for Indian requirements as they arise.

Says Kaura: "There is a mutuality of interests - we help General Dynamics win in India, while they help us win global markets."

Samtel Avionics, one of the private sector's most dynamic defence firms, has emerged from the ruins of Samtel Display Systems, once a successful builder of cathode ray tubes for television sets, but technologically bypassed with the advent of liquid crystal displays (LCDs). Leveraging its core strength of building displays, Samtel set up an avionics subsidiary that made its first major breakthrough in building cockpit displays for the Sukhoi-30MKI fighter. Those, and a planned Sukhoi upgrade, remain staples for Samtel Avionics.

The parent company, Samtel Display Systems, has closed down but Samtel Avionics now has an annual turnover of Rs 100 crore. Puneet Kaura expects annual sales of Rs 500 crore by 2015-16.

In 2010, Samtel set up a JV with French avionics giant, Thales, hoping to build displays for the Mirage 2000 upgrade and the medium fighter (MMRCA) contract. However, business has been slow - the Mirage 2000 upgrade would generate orders for Samtel only once Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) begins upgrading the fighter.

Uncertainty also dogs the $16-20 billion contract for 126 Rafale fighters. With the French contractors - primarily Dassault, Rafale and Snecma - required to generate some $8-10 billion worth of offset-related production in India, Samtel-Thales is hoping to build MFDs for the Rafale's cockpit; helmet mounted sight displays that let the pilot cue and fire his weapons merely by turning his head towards the target. Samtel might also build an infrared search and track (IRST) system that lets the Rafale detect enemy aircraft through their heat radiations, without emitting give-away radar signals.

Samtel, however, is diversifying fast. Kaura says Honeywell is a prospective partner for up to 700-800 displays and line replacement units for commercial aviation aircraft built in the US. Separately, Samtel is competing with Zen Technologies, another emerging private company, to supply avionics for the light combat helicopters that HAL is developing for the army and IAF.
Samtel, General Dynamics sign Rs 500-cr agreement | Business Standard

 

[p2prada]

Point is ToT acquired within MMRCA could be of much use for AMCA... And we are talking about real ToT here, including training of people etc.

ToT is the same everywhere.

It all depends on how we use the ToT outside the Dassault contract.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Snecma & RR to continue new engine studies

Safran subsidiary Snecma and Rolls-Royse have agreed to continue the development of the next generation of combat aircraft engines following approvals from their respective French and UK governments.
The two companies will continue their efforts to explore propulsion system concepts and technologies as part of the Anglo-French future combat air systems (FCAS) demonstration program preparation phase contract through the Rolls-Royce Snecma Ltd joint-venture which was established in 2001.
"We are pleased that our two governments have confirmed the continuation of this program," Didier Desnoyer, Snecma VP and GM Military Engines said in a statement. "Our teams are focused on delivering the highest capabilities from France and UK in (the) defence propulsion domain and meeting the challenging expectations of this program both on technical aspects and affordability."

Snecma & RR to continue new engine studies | Australian Aviation Magazine

 

[Drsomnath999]

Q.A. Approved: AESA @thalesgroup hi-resolution (~1m)#SAR map, #Rafale #radar #aesa

https://twitter.com/jrvianney/status/430015918630924288

p.s can anyone spot anything interesting apart from 3 planes

CHEERS

 

[halloweene]

Contracts are more or less wrapped now. Political time schedule on.

 

[Punya Pratap]

Contracts are more or less wrapped now. Political time schedule on.

Dassault Rafale Deal Stalled Again | idrw.org

According to latest report by Defensenews.com, sources close to them have informed them that the deal for purchase of 126 French Dassault made Rafale is stalled again; State owned company HAL and French company Dassault have failed to reach to an agreement and statement between two companies continues.
HAL and Dassault are fighting over who will provide Guarantees to Government of India and Indian Air force for the delivery schedule of Rafale produced in India. Dassault in past has questioned if HAL's ability to handle manufacturing of Rafales in India and doesnt want to be penalized for shortfall and delays done by HAL , HAL on other hand doesnt want to be penalized if there is delays on part of its sub-contractors and delays in Transfer of technology ( TOT ) by Dassault
HAL recently called off a visit to Dassault Rafale complex in France without providing any reasons, IAF which is seeing a shortfall in fighter aircrafts wants companies to follow strict delivery schedule. IAF faced delays in induction of locally made Sukhoi Su 30 MKI due to inabilities of Russian company to Transfer required TOT of the MKI in certain time frame and HAL also failed to put the Production line in place in time, both companies blamed each other for the delays and escaped Penalties
Delay in negotiation has already lead to price inflation and recent media report by DNA India says that there has been 100 % jump in Price inflation and Rafale which was supposed to cost India 60 Million $ will now cost 120 Million $ per aircraft.
Two years of negotiation has failed to make any headway and with General elections around corner it is unlikely that current Government in Delhi will take any call on the MMRCA deal and with change in regime likely will be new government which will take the call on the MMRCA deal, with current economic situation in India Defence analysts and IAF are fearing the worst that New Government will Scrap the MMRCA deal.

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

Dassault Rafale Deal Stalled Again | idrw.org

According to latest report by Defensenews.com, sources close to them have informed them that the deal for purchase of 126 French Dassault made Rafale is stalled again; State owned company HAL and French company Dassault have failed to reach to an agreement and statement between two companies continues.
HAL and Dassault are fighting over who will provide Guarantees to Government of India and Indian Air force for the delivery schedule of Rafale produced in India. Dassault in past has questioned if HAL's ability to handle manufacturing of Rafales in India and doesnt want to be penalized for shortfall and delays done by HAL , HAL on other hand doesnt want to be penalized if there is delays on part of its sub-contractors and delays in Transfer of technology ( TOT ) by Dassault
HAL recently called off a visit to Dassault Rafale complex in France without providing any reasons, IAF which is seeing a shortfall in fighter aircrafts wants companies to follow strict delivery schedule. IAF faced delays in induction of locally made Sukhoi Su 30 MKI due to inabilities of Russian company to Transfer required TOT of the MKI in certain time frame and HAL also failed to put the Production line in place in time, both companies blamed each other for the delays and escaped Penalties
Delay in negotiation has already lead to price inflation and recent media report by DNA India says that there has been 100 % jump in Price inflation and Rafale which was supposed to cost India 60 Million $ will now cost 120 Million $ per aircraft.
Two years of negotiation has failed to make any headway and with General elections around corner it is unlikely that current Government in Delhi will take any call on the MMRCA deal and with change in regime likely will be new government which will take the call on the MMRCA deal, with current economic situation in India Defence analysts and IAF are fearing the worst that New Government will Scrap the MMRCA deal.

Cancel the deal , & focus on production of Tejas Mk2 . Build it in numbers till AMCA & FGFA arrives .

 

[Jagdish58]

Will the deal be signed

 

[Punya Pratap]

Cancel the deal , & focus on production of Tejas Mk2 . Build it in numbers till AMCA & FGFA arrives .

As per the wikipedia (List of active Chinese military aircraft - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) PLAF has only 175 foreign origin (Russian) Fighters our of its inventory of 1200 odds planes.

They are well on their way of becoming a 5th Gen based fighter Air Force with impressive drones inventory to boot.

The question is that their achievements are entirely due to the focus on self reliance and we are stuck at being a nation which hankers for foreign origin weaponry. MOD ought to lay down a rule stating only a certain percentage (50% to start and than reducing) ideally is all that is allowed to IAF + AI in foreign weaponry in case we really want to become a strong nation.

I am sure if NDA comes to power they d take some very strong measures other wise it will be disappointing!!

 

[hit&run]

No Rafale MMRCA deal this year says Indian Defence Minister

No Rafale MMRCA deal this year says Indian Defence Minister
February 6, 2014 by P. Chacko Joseph Leave a Comment
New Delhi: Indian Defence Minister AK Antony today admitted that the country had no money to purchase the Rafale fighter aircraft for the Indian Air Force. Speaking at the DefExpo 2014, Antony said that negotiations are continuing and the deal won't be signed this year. "There is anyway no money"¦" he said. Antony said that the negotiations are expected to continue till next year and by that time India may have the money.
Antony has said confirmed what Frontier India has been saying for past 1 year. Please read Should India cut down IAF MMRCA Rafale Combat aircraft numbers? and Does Indian Air Force need Rafale at all?. Contrary to all common knowledge, a French Daily had claimed that the final deal for the Rafale Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) was expected to go up to 189, which is 63 more than pitched for. Read Claims and counter claims over India's Rafale MMRCA purchase from France.
The deal may not be entirely off the track as Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) has confirmed negotiation going on track, but the point that the late arrival of the MMRCA planes may render them technologically obsolete and may coincide with induction of new generation of fighter aircraft's and UCAV's.

What a useless defence minister and Government of India lead by Man Mohan Singh and Sonia Gandhi.

These midgets are only dumb trophies bosses who do nothing but earn monthly pays and enjoys ministries to earn benefits for them and their families.

These spivs doesn't have money, but they knew it ages ago that they had floated a tender, will have pay for it so have to arrange the funds.(passing comment on the face value of what he is saying).

The reality is all the wealth of this nation is at the disposal of the Queen, for whom loyalty for India doesn't comes naturally; so why she will spend it on something that has security implications for this nation.

 

[bose]

Saint Antony is more concerned about its image than on the urgency of defense forces...

 

[hit&run]

Saint Antony is more concerned about its image than on the urgency of defense forces...

What Image, Indians should get rid of these scum bags as fast they can. I know the kind of mentality these old babu breed nehruvian politicians have. They are good for nothing, they are neither honest nor efficient. People should stop giving them good tags like honest and image conscious. He is a leader who has been elected to take difficult decisions. If he can not take them then he should lift his loongi up and run back to the wet lands he has came from.

 

[bose]

What Image, Indians should get rid of these scum bags as fast they can. I know the kind of mentality these old babu breed nehruvian politicians have. They are good for nothing, they are neither honest nor efficient. People should stop giving them good tags like honest and image conscious. He is a leader who has been elected to take difficult decisions. If he can not take them then he should lift his loongi up and run back to the wet lands he has came from.

These Congress wallas have long history of neglecting the country's defense needs... starting from Nehru's time and we saw the debacle in 62 when we are ill equipped to fight Chinese...

Airforce is short of fighters....

Navy is short of Submarines....

Army is short of Artilleries and ammunition...

There is no clear cut strategic planning on indigenization...

List is on and on.... I wonder what these ministers are doing in the ministry....

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

One more bullshit . India will not sign rafale deal till next fiscal year coz only 8% budget left . Hey bhagwan .
Defence minister says only 8% budget left, MMRCA Deal under next government | idrw.org

 

[Lions Of Punjab]

One more bullshit . India will not sign rafale deal till next fiscal year coz only 8% budget left .
Defence minister says only 8% budget left, MMRCA Deal under next government | idrw.org