Know Your 'Rafale'

jmj_overlord

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still if our country's technology to manufacture standard equipment is slow compared to other countries, isn't it better to rely on imports than waiting and clearing every deals at a snail's pace and using flying coffins (referring to obsolete machinery like mig 21, 27 etc..) ?
 

drkrn

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Tejas mk2 can cover Rafale's role. FGFA need not be pulled in here.
most hilarious comment.
an outdated design,designed in inexperienced hands,no jet engine,no high end electronic warfare equipment,limited warfare potential.you wish to compare tejas mk2 with rafale.at best it can be compared to gripen ng.

amca is not even out of design board.so it is highly unlikely they will be ready by 2040,by that time many countries move towards 6th gen stuff.

i would be glad if most of f-insas is routed from indian companies.

were you asking about money required to design a 4th gen jet?we did spend way less than any other nation in this aspect.at around 5000 crores we developed a respectable jet.may be its a world record


it takes even more time to develop tejas mk2.the specs too are not that pleasing.

it is more important to guard ourselves from a mad man on our right and a snake over our head.the cost is substantial,but justified
 

drkrn

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Compared to Rafale PAKFA/FGFA is little bit advanced ..and the Rafale can do aanything the PAK FA/FGFA do

what you should always remember is that iaf requirements are always stringent.they want everything in one aircraft.a hybrid in simple words. that's why we use su-30mki with israeli/french technologies making it best 4.5 gen jet in whole asia.
true rafale can do anything that pakfa can do.but not viceversa.i doubt pak fa has enough room to take ordinances like rafale.but if pak fa comes to indian hands we will turn it into a real hybrid between russian and french/israeli making it again the best jet in asia---



Perfectly fit Nano MK 2
:rofl::rofl::rofl:bingo





Then which fighter is Performed Top Gun like adventure against a F 14 last year

Lockheed awarded $6.9 billion F-22 upgrade contract Pls read ..!!
few days back i read a news stating that a f-22 sneaked under the belly of f-14 without being noticed:rofl:don't know how far it is true.


Sonia Ji made it ..!!
who else didn't
 

p2prada

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at best it can be compared to gripen ng.
Incomparable to Gripen NG too.

Gripen NG will be a 7 ton airframe carrying a 7 ton payload on 9 hardpoints and with more range than a F-16 B52. It can stay in the air for more than one hour with internal fuel alone.

LCA Mk2 will be a 7 ton airframe carrying a 5 ton payload on 7 hardpoints and with the same range it started with on Mk1. It can stay in the air for 40 minutes with internal fuel or one hour with external fuel.

There is no comparison.

Even with this level of difference, Dassault says it will take 3 Gripen NGs to do the work of one Rafale.
 

rohit b3

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@drkrn @p2prada @SajeevJino

Everyone just seems to be against Tejas, i cant really do much about that. We just have to agree to disagree.

I just want to make some points, i never said Tejas mk2 is BETTER than MKI. I just said it would have an advantage in BVR, but BVR isnt the only role of an aircraft. MKI has an edge in Dog fights and Ground attack capabilities

And i just wanted to point out...those "inexperienced hands" are the one who developed the Arjun after 30 years and pitted it against a tank from a country who's weapons making skills are known worldwide. There are several such developements.

Personally i would really like to see Tejas mk1 go up against Mirage2000 and Tejas mk2 , against a Rafale in future in exercises.

Cheers!
 
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Armand2REP

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good to hear about french r&d.
can you post things in detail.
Active cancellation has been achieved on pre-loaded signals, but the waveforms have not been able to match frequency hopping in time to emit a cancelling return. What is required is more processing power and Thales is looking for a lightweight super computer to do the job.

pakfa has radar cross section of0.005m2
The combined effect is estimated to have reduced the radar cross-section to that of a tennis ball, or approximately 0.005m^2.
Sukhoi PAK FA - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
According to the Indian delegation briefed on FGFA, it is 0.5^m2.

According to an MoD official, "It is an amazing looking aircraft. It has a Radar Cross Section (RCS) of just 0.5 square metres as compared to the Su-30MKI's RCS of about 20 square metres."

Broadsword: India, Russia close to agreement on next generation fighter
 

Armand2REP

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This is useless talk in practical world.

Come on do you know how many airborne radars are there in air at the same time painting a single RAFALE?

Can a single RAFALE use active cancellation to give F-35 equivalent RCS to all those airborne radars?

the answer is simply-NOT POSSIBLE.
It requires an airbourne super computer, but it is not impossible by any means. With the pace of computer miniaturization we have seen over the last 5 years, it will be available within the next 5.
 

Drsomnath999

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Rafale's Spectra capabilities are still closely guarded secret . You wouldnt find every info about Spectra 's active cancellation tech in open sources in internet. one has to be realtime proffessional to disclose about it's capabilites .

Assemble An Active Cancellation Stealth System | Systems & Subsystems content from Defense Electronics Magazine
Achieving stealth requires minimizing the radar cross section (RCS) of a vehicle or system as it appears to an opponent's radar detection capabilities. To achieve this objective, an active cancellation stealth system was designed by means of a phased-array technique, digital radio-frequency memory (DRFM), and field-programmable-gate-array (FPGA) technology. The DRFM enables precise replication of stored radar waveforms, while the phased-array technology is used to generate the required waveforms to cancel reflected radar returns. The FPGA is essential for signal analysis, database search, and waveform generation and control
.

Rafale's spectra is known have DRFM along with omnidirectional AESA jamming

2)THALES AND ELECTRONIC WARFARE:




CHEERS
 
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p2prada

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Compared to Rafale PAKFA/FGFA is little bit advanced ..and the Rafale can do aanything the PAK FA/FGFA do
FGFA can do almost everything Rafale can do. Rafale cannot do most of the things FGFA can do.

FGFA cannot be compared to any 4th gen aircraft, be it the MKI or Rafale.

Once upgraded, a lot of MKI's features will exceed Rafale, mainly in the air to air domain. FGFA will exceed Super MKI in every possible way by a very "huge" margin. So, no comparison.

Overall, more Rafales will be needed to do the work of one FGFA. And it also depends on what the enemy brings to the war.

Say, if two FGFAs are enough to recon and bomb a SAM site, while two FGFAs are escorts, then we will need 8 or 12 Rafales for the same mission, some performing the actual bombing run, some providing escort and some performing OCA role against incoming aircraft because the formation will be picked up beforehand and countered by the enemy.

This is basically what IAF did in CI-2004 with 12 aircraft.

Was that 4++ jets don't have Super cruise @p2prada pls..!! .. does the FGFA upgrade in near future can make it's a 6th gen fighter
4th gen jets can supercruise only with modest payloads and cannot when carrying external tanks and bombs. Supercruise capability at transonic speeds while only carrying 4 or 6 A2A missiles is not particularly useful. Only Typhoon is said to be able to supercruise at mach 1.4 while carrying 6 missiles, while not enough, it is considered an advantage during air to air missions.

F-22 and PAKFA carry a huge amount of fuel and can supercruise while carrying bombs and A2A missiles. Its supercruise capability is very long. Even if Typhoon can supercruise at Mach 1.4, the range won't be particularly high. Meaning, PAKFA is said to stay supersonic for 1500 Km vs MKI's 750 Km. Typhoon may not even manage 750 Km while supercruising due to the low amount of fuel carried and excessive drag while carrying external missiles. After having "supercruised" a long distance the aircraft should be able to return to base too, with an equal amount of fuel, so it will affect the 4th gen fighter's overall combat radius.

6th gen is not properly defined today. Once a definition is available, we will know for sure.
 
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drkrn

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@drkrn @p2prada @SajeevJino

Everyone just seems to be against Tejas, i cant really do much about that. We just have to agree to disagree.

I just want to make some points, i never said Tejas mk2 is BETTER than MKI. I just said it would have an advantage in BVR, but BVR isnt the only role of an aircraft. MKI has an edge in Dog fights and Ground attack capabilities

And i just wanted to point out...those "inexperienced hands" are the one who developed the Arjun after 30 years and pitted it against a tank from a country who's weapons making skills are known worldwide. There are several such developements.

Personally i would really like to see Tejas mk1 go up against Mirage2000 and Tejas mk2 , against a Rafale in future in exercises.

Cheers!
it wouldn't even have better edge than su-30mki in bvr.first radar is smaller in mk2.weapons too are limited.mk2 is not heavy fighter.
rafale and tejas are two different ac's
 
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TrueSpirit

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And if you are soo in favour of Rafales, imagine 2030, "Super Power" India flying French 4++ gen jets..while US,Russia and China are developing 6th gen fighters.
There is a world of difference between flying (as in after FOC, in full squardron service, post-weapons qualification) & developing.
 

kseeker

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Dassault deal far away, IAF begins fleet upgrade | idrw.org

Faced with the reality that the deal to buy 126 new fighters from France's Dassault Aviation will not be inked for the next few months and could possibly be delayed till the next government is in saddle in May next year, the Indian Air Force has begun upgrading a major chunk of its fleet of fighters.

The IAF faces a crisis as the key IAS official handling the Dassault Aviation purchase in the Ministry of Defence died of an heart attack a couple of weeks ago. The process is complex and the new appointee may take a few months to understand the matter that relates to purchase of 125 twin-engine Rafale planes at the cost of $15 billion (approx Rs 90,000 crore at today's valuation). Moreover, the ongoing issue of localisation of production is yet to be sorted out.

As of now, the IAF is upgrading some 210 fighter jets in its fleet to meet the challenges and equip the planes with the gadgetry of today's war fighting scenario. The upgrades will be on the Mirage-2000, MiG-29 and Jaguar, all purchased in the 1980s from France, Russia and the UK, respectively.

The next phase will be to upgrade the older lot of Sukhoi-30 MKI planes to equip them with latest radars like the 'X-band' allowing a simultaneous track on 30 aerial targets and engage at least six of them. Also the radar signature will be reduced and it will have a new longer range missiles.

The upgrade was anyway needed to bring the planes in tune with latest technology, but the slow place on deciding on the purchase of 126 Rafale has added a tinge of urgency. The IAF Chief had said on October 4: "Negotiations are still on. I cannot place a timeline on when the deal will be signed"¦The Hindustan Aeronautics Limited and Dassault are in talks and hope they come with an agreement".

Besides this, starting next year, three different versions of the MiG 21 planes are to be phased out. Also the MiG 27, another Soviet-era plane used by the IAF, will be phased out. These two planes form the lowest layer of IAF fighter jets in terms of technology. The MiG 29, the Mirage-2000 and the Jaguar are the second layer while Sukhoi-30 MKI is the frontline top-layer.

The IAF has a sanctioned strength of 42 squadrons (some 16 to 18 planes in each) but it has just 33. The 34th, a Sukhoi-30-MKI squadron, is being raised at Sirsa in Haryana.

The upgrades will make the IAF carry on with the older planes for at least 15 more years. The MiG 29 fleet of 62 twin-engined planes inducted in the mid 1980s is being upgraded at a cost of $964 million. The upgrade will convert these planes into multi-role fighters, a new avionics suite, latest radars. Similarly the fleet of 51 Mirage-2000 planes is being upgraded under a $2.4 billion contract by Dassault Aviation, its manufacturer. This will also have a new radar, a night vision compatible digital cockpit, helmet-mounted sights and new missiles.
 

Drsomnath999

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FROM AIR INTERNATIONAL NOV 2013

8 pages on on CEAM (french operational evaluation centre):



RBE 2 AESA RADAR



ELECTRONIC WARFARE






CHEERS
 

A chauhan

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Any update/progress in the MMRCA deal ? :(
 

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