Know Your 'Rafale'

[halloweene]

I didnt know about that Rafale scale. CFTs where tested a long time ago (at least aerodynamically), but wherent ordered by french airforce for 2 reasons : cost and 14 hard points. From an insider, i know that belly tank is "seriously considered", probably via DEDIRA program (DEmonstrateur de DIscretion du RAfale) recently commissioned by DGA. other main programs include spectra 5T, THEO (thrust enhancements) and a turbine blisk progrma that was completed in 2012 by ONERA.

About Le Bourget, it is 50th anniversary of the wrld's largest air exhibition.Last edition there were more then 2000 exhibitors, 150 k pro visitors and 200 k public visitors....

 

[halloweene]

Btw anyone interested can take a look at brazilian test pilot Vialley Riller Jr testings on defesanet site... Gripen, F18 and one article about Rafale (two to come).

 

[halloweene]

RPM on target for French Tigers
Print
By: CRAIG HOYLE LONDON 50 minutes ago Source:

The French army's Eurocopter Tiger attack helicopters should gain a new semi-active laser-guided rocket capability later this decade, following successful early firings conducted from a HAP-standard aircraft earlier this year.

Developed by Thales subsidiary TDA, the roquette à précision métrique (RPM) is a 68mm (2.7in) diameter weapon offering a circular error of probability accuracy of below 1m (3.3ft), from a maximum firing range of up to 3.2nm (6km).

Two safe separation firing campaigns were performed in January and April 2013 over the Biscarrosse test range of France's DGA defence procurement agency, with another test of the roughly 8.5kg (18.7lb) rocket due to be conducted during July.

"The idea is for a low collateral damage capability," says Matthieu Krouri, guided rocket programme manager at TDA. "Twenty metres away from the target there is no effect," he adds. Already spanning more than three years, study work has been funded by the company and the French defence ministry.

At just over 1.4m in length, slightly longer than the TDA-supplied unguided rockets already sold to Tiger operators Australia, France, Germany and Spain, the RPM requires no physical connection with its launcher unit, due to the use of wireless induction technology.

The mid-year test is to include two launches against a fixed target being marked by a laser spot. TDA says the weapon is also capable of striking ground targets moving at up to 30kt (55km/h).

"We are discussing with the DGA for a contract," Krouri says, with a production version of the RPM expected to be operationally available with the Tiger from 2018. The rocket's insensitive munition-standard blast/fragmentation warhead and fuze are being developed separately, under another contract from the agency.

Speaking during a pre-Paris air show media event at the DGA's Cazaux flight test centre on 14 May, Krouri said the weapon also offers a viable solution for a long-held French air force requirement to field a low-yield weapon between the Dassault Rafale's internal cannon and Sagem AASM air-to-surface missile. The company has previously performed a ground-based firing trial to prove the viability of firing the RPM from a 12-tube rocket launcher.

If deployed from the Rafale, the precision-strike weapon could achieve a range of up to 5.4nm, TDA says.

The company also plans to offer the same terminal guidance kit, rocket motor, warhead and fuze for integration with 2.75in diameter rockets, Krouri says.

RPM on target for French Tigers

 

[halloweene]

 

[halloweene]

Rafale to expand Meteor missile testing
Print
By: CRAIG HOYLE LONDON 30 minutes ago Source:

Fresh separation trials involving the Dassault Rafale and MBDA's Meteor beyond visual-range air-to-air missile are due to be performed in late May, as the type edges closer towards eventual service introduction with the French armed forces.

To be performed from the Cazaux flight test centre of France's DGA defence procurement agency over water using instrumented rounds without warheads, the releases will follow two such tests performed from the site in October 2012. Two more of the weapons are also due to be released from the Rafale before the end of 2013, according to a DGA programme official.

The forthcoming releases will be made in different areas of the flight envelope, with the host aircraft performing a high-g manoeuvre and then flying at a high angle of attack, the official says.

Further releases will be performed as France moves towards making the first controlled and boosted launch of a Meteor from the Rafale during 2015. The new-generation air dominance missile is due to become operational with the French air force and navy from 2018, with Paris having already ordered a first batch of 200 weapons.

Meanwhile, the DGA says it has completed captive flight tests with MBDA's submarine-launched Scalp Naval cruise missile for the French navy. The process involved flying from Cazaux with the weapon mounted beneath one of its Dassault Mirage 2000 trials aircraft.

Rafale to expand Meteor missile testing

 

[p2prada]

Btw anyone interested can take a look at brazilian test pilot Vialley Riller Jr testings on defesanet site... Gripen, F18 and one article about Rafale (two to come).

Can you provide the links for the interview? The site is in Portuguese. It won't do us any good to search for it by ourselves.

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

For that to happen first the RAFALE deal will have to be signed!!!!!!!!!! . We don't know what commission mongering expose is going to hit the deal , and whether it is going to be signed or not. or your information the RAFALE and AMCA have nothing in common, They belong to different league of fighters. So your contention that RAFALE can fulfill the AMCA numbers is just a wishfull thinking.

Rafale is going to fill the need of both stalled AMCA and FGFA when they hit snags. The requirement is a 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics = Rafale.

Also this so called 30 years time and 50 years time frame is a stupid claim made by people who know nothing about aviation.

RAFALE and TYPHOON took 16 and 17 years respectively to enter into service from first metal cut and Tejas took 20 years for mk-1 to enter into serial production,

Both RAFALE and TYPHOON entered production without finishing all their developmental goals and are being updated in tranches,TYPHOON is yet to demonstarate it's stand alone ground bombing ability , but that hasn't precluded it from entering in 100s in service, Because it can be upgraded after induction. The same goes for Tejas,

For Tejas funding for two prototypes were released only in 1993 , it finished IOC in 2012, entered series production in HAL with orders for 40. So just 4 or five years delay when compared to RAFALE and TYPHOON. The above words are not mine, They are HAL chief retired Airmarshal MSD WOOLEn's words.

As for your timeline, Rafale development wasn't cleared until 1983 and the first service aircraft entered aeronaval in 1997. That is 14 years from start to finish. Tejas development started the same year, 1983... it is now 2013 = 30 years.

April 21/13: Tejas a lemon? The Sunday Standard reports that the Tejas is much farther away from viability than anyone is admitting, and says that DRDO's notional stealth AMCA (Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft) has been put on hold until the LCA project can be made to work. A stealth FGFA/SU-50 is already in co-development with Russia, so AMCA's value is unclear anyway. With respect to the Tejas LCA, the Sunday Standard's unnamed sources say:

"The plane cannot fly on its own. It needs a lifeline in the form of support and monitoring of its systems from the ground by technicians"¦. The common man thinks the plane is doing fine, its engine sounds great and the manoeuvres are perfect. But those flying and weapons firing displays are done with ground monitoring and support. The plane is still not ready to flying on its own""¦. the sources noted that LCA was grounded for three months between September and December 2012 following problems with its landing gear. "Normally, a combat plane is ready for its next sortie following a 30-minute [servicing]. In the case of LCA, after a single sortie of about an hour or so, it needs three days of servicing before it can go for its next sortie," they said."

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...10-but-foreign-help-sought-with-engine-01901/

 

[halloweene]

New tests on Meteor

looking for the links.

 

[halloweene]

Gripen : DefesaNet - gripen - GRIPEN - A ticket to the future

Rafale : you know where to find olybrius translation ) Rafale News - Page 290

There's another article about rafale export prospects with some interesting aspects about MMRCA (same page)(roughly Dassault CEO for Brazil states Rafale won technical and financial competition on about all points, but more interesting Dassault offered to integrate dart missile, so one could expect missiles integration on it if desired)

only one article yet, but as Vianney riller posted twice in a single day on Rafale, next article should come quick. About F18 There are 3 articles on defesanet, alas only in portuguese, and automatic translators are poor...

Btw the comments (and photo) on the passive self tracking was directly from Vianney Riller on twitter :thumb:

 

[halloweene]

here is the link for the F18 articles.

http://www.defesanet.com.br/hornet

 

[halloweene]

New Rafale Demo patch (Cpt Planche) notice numbers

 

[halloweene]

One hour to replace M88, 3 personel

Le mamouth: La démonstration par la visseuse/ dévisseuse

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

Rafale is going to fill the need of both stalled AMCA and FGFA when they hit snags. The requirement is a 4.5 gen airframe with 5th gen avionics = Rafale.



As for your timeline, Rafale development wasn't cleared until 1983 and the first service aircraft entered aeronaval in 1997. That is 14 years from start to finish. Tejas development started the same year, 1983... it is now 2013 = 30 years.

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...10-but-foreign-help-sought-with-engine-01901/
For the above article in the link, following is the counter truth.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-66.html#post733802
In the above page post no-981 is the answer to the dubious news article you quoted in your post.

First no one is going to bow to the wishes of Dassault by cutting HAL out of the loop.
So we will see RAFLE in IAF only after the deal is to be completed.
Then another awkward question which is more bang for buck FGFA or RAFALE, which can't be decided by your two line statement alone, think.

As for the stalled FGFA , you have only your word as your bond. No one is going to buy it.

So what are the F-1, F-2 and F-3 tranches of RAFLE?

The LCA project was conceived in 1983 and due to inter departmental wrangling I posted in TKS tales link , and financial crunch of the 1990s , it's funding for TDs (FSED-1)was released only in 1993. The Td flew in 2001. And then again in 2004 IAF revised ASR resulting in FSED-2.And it is now being completed in 2013.

this is pretty much the norm for all fighter projects.

From FSED phase the grippen, Eurofighter TYPHOON and RAFALE all entered service only after around 17 or 18 years and are still being upgraded in phases in newer versions.

But tejas ASr was upgraded in 2004 itself. it is akin to jumping directly to F-16 blk 52 without operationalizing F-16 A/B.

So if the LCA program took 5 or 6 years extra , it compares quite well to other international program.
TYPHOON is yet to complete it's ground bombing role , which tejas did before IOC, SO where is the 30 year delay?

 

[Immanuel]

SH engine change takes 30 mins, nothing special, 1 hr actually slow in comparison to EF or SH.

 

[Armand2REP]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

https://www.defenseindustrydaily.co...10-but-foreign-help-sought-with-engine-01901/
For the above article in the link, following is the counter truth.
http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-air-force/43717-ada-lca-tejas-iv-66.html#post733802
In the above page post no-981 is the answer to the dubious news article you quoted in your post.

I don't see any counter truth, just a glass half full approach.

First no one is going to bow to the wishes of Dassault by cutting HAL out of the loop.
So we will see RAFLE in IAF only after the deal is to be completed.

Of course not, babus wouldn't like all that money taken away going to private industry.

Then another awkward question which is more bang for buck FGFA or RAFALE, which can't be decided by your two line statement alone, think.

As for the stalled FGFA , you have only your word as your bond. No one is going to buy it.

I have the word of post-Soviet Russia track record which has failed to put anything new into service since the Cold War.

So what are the F-1, F-2 and F-3 tranches of RAFLE?

They are weapons, avionics and software upgrades. The platform itself has not changed.

The LCA project was conceived in 1983 and due to inter departmental wrangling I posted in TKS tales link , and financial crunch of the 1990s , it's funding for TDs (FSED-1)was released only in 1993. The Td flew in 2001. And then again in 2004 IAF revised ASR resulting in FSED-2.And it is now being completed in 2013.

Is it my problem it took them that long to make a tech demonstrator? Both programmes were cleared in the same year. GoI had to find funding to pay Dassault to come up with YOUR airframe design.

this is pretty much the norm for all fighter projects.

It is the norm that an in service airframe would accrue avionic upgrades. Tejas is not in service.

From FSED phase the grippen, Eurofighter TYPHOON and RAFALE all entered service only after around 17 or 18 years and are still being upgraded in phases in newer versions.

haha, you don't get to cherry pick where you start nor do you get to make up a false ending. It begins when you officially launch the programme and ends when the aircraft enters operational service. The start date for both projects was 1983, Rafale entered service in 1997... we are still waiting on LCA.

But tejas ASr was upgraded in 2004 itself. it is akin to jumping directly to F-16 blk 52 without operationalizing F-16 A/B.

They had no choice since LCA still hasn't entered service. They can't enter an obsolete aircraft. The airframe remains the same and still isn't active duty.

So if the LCA program took 5 or 6 years extra , it compares quite well to other international program.
TYPHOON is yet to complete it's ground bombing role , which tejas did before IOC, SO where is the 30 year delay?

guy, you don't get to strike 6 years off development just because some upgrades were added. Fact is it still hasn't entered service. When that day comes, you can end this drawn out drama. Until it does, it still isn't done.

 

[ersakthivel]

Re: ADA LCA Tejas Mark-II

I don't see any counter truth, just a glass half full approach.

Well , You don't have to be philosophical in an objective discussion regarding time line. No one needs philosophical view points here.

Of course not, babus wouldn't like all that money taken away going to private industry.

Every one knows tht why Dassault is going to lose the NNRCA contract is it's profit motivated urge to press the GOI to cut the 4 decade old HAL out of the loop , and bring in green horns Reliance (which is under CAG inquiry for gold plating gas field expenditure) to obfuse the pricing of components and TOT terms as there is no way govt can come to term with the correct cost of the indian made RAFALE as HAl is no longer involved in it.

I have the word of post-Soviet Russia track record which has failed to put anything new into service since the Cold War.

They had no need then.They are doing it now with indian money and JV

They are weapons, avionics and software upgrades. The platform itself has not changed.

It still has lesser powered engines that belong to the two decade old engine tech.

Is it my problem it took them that long to make a tech demonstrator? Both programmes were cleared in the same year. GoI had to find funding to pay Dassault to come up with YOUR airframe design.

programs start when money is allotted to FSED phase one in 1993 for tejas. Any rational guy can agree upon it. If you habe any other opinion no one cares.

It is the norm that an in service airframe would accrue avionic upgrades. Tejas is not in service.

But still fly it with two decade old engines providing thrust equal to the Kaveri , K-9? Just admit that due to far lower order and failure to win any export orders you have postponed the development of much more powerful engine until now . And If dassault does not gets Indian MMRCA order it is going to be in dire financial straits as well.That's why the CEO is now smoking the peace pipe agreeing that they have had a long and fruitful partnership with HAL in recent interview. belatedly realizing their new love interest for reliance will simply result in their expulsion from MMRCA tender.

haha, you don't get to cherry pick where you start nor do you get to make up a false ending. It begins when you officially launch the programme and ends when the aircraft enters operational service. The start date for both projects was 1983, Rafale entered service in 1997... we are still waiting on LCA.

Once again many people can discuss a program in official circle t many levels with seed money for infra structure of 560 cr in 1983. But people with technical knowledge compare the FSED clearance at 1993 with 2000 crores for TD-1 and 2 as date of first metal cut as the reference point for comparison.

They had no choice since LCA still hasn't entered service. They can't enter an obsolete aircraft. The airframe remains the same and still isn't active duty.

RAFALE is many more times obsolete if you compare it with the FGFA that is going to enter into IAF within 6 years. So dassault must better speeed up negotiations , otherwise if a couple of years are alowed to elapse in negotiations as it was done in GTRE-SNECMA failed deal, the future ruling dispension will find it hard to induct a 4th gen fighter and 5th gen fighter at the same cost. So beware.

guy, you don't get to strike 6 years off development just because some upgrades were added. Fact is it still hasn't entered service. When that day comes, you can end this drawn out drama. Until it does, it still isn't done.

Well you are just wasting time by not acknowledging that FSED phase -1 was sanctioned with 2500 crs in 1993 and TD-1 flew in 2001. And FSED phase-II was started in 2004 according to revised ASR of IAF , and IOC at 2013 is not 30 years delay.

if you don't agree ,provide date lines with credible link for FSED phase-I,FSED Phase-II,I will accept that tejas was a 30 year or 40 year program.

So what is the point of arguing?

 

[halloweene]

Apart that SH do not exist yet... Again, link data plz :cool2:

 

[lookieloo]

Apart that SH do not exist yet... Again, link data plz :cool2:

Screw that... I wanna see a link about the SH not existing! Guess we've been living a lie for the past 18 years.

 

[halloweene]

Screw that... I wanna see a link about the SH not existing! Guess we've been living a lie for the past 18 years.

Sry meant silent hornet. Still want a link with 30 mins engine change

 

[lookieloo]

Sry meant silent hornet. Still want a link with 30 mins engine change

Ah, you mean the *Super-Duper* Hornet. Sorry, but I have no information on engine changes (at least not from any source I'd trust). 1hr vs 1/2hr on an engine-swap seems like a fairly irrelevant comparison anyways.