Know Your 'Rafale'

Drsomnath999

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A French Jet Maker Is Approaching a Crossroad


SAINT-CLOUD, FRANCE — As Jérôme Camps, an engineer at Dassault Aviation's main design center, showed off a ghostlike 3-D model of one of the company's small jets here recently, his hand passed through the plane's skin to reveal an intricate web of support structures as well as a jumble of multicolored cables and pneumatic tubes, rendered in vivid detail.

"This is a living tool," Mr. Camps said, as an assistant rotated the projected image with a few keystrokes. "This is it. There are no blueprints."

Dassault Aviation, the French maker of the Falcon series of business jets as well as the Rafale military fighter, first started to dispense with traditional paper drawings and physical scale mock-ups a decade ago, migrating to an all-digital design system that has since been adopted globally by the aerospace industry, as well as by automakers and other manufacturers. It is an innovation that the company — still controlled by the heirs of Marcel Dassault, a pioneer of France's modern aerospace industry — is fiercely proud.

Despite its broader influence, Dassault, while respectably profitable, is fighting to maintain its footing after the financial crisis eroded demand for flashy business jets, coupled with deep, austerity-driven cuts in European defense budgets. In this environment, some industry analysts wonder how much longer the company can continue to go it alone in an increasingly competitive global market.

"France, and especially Dassault, are unique in the world of aerospace," said Richard Aboulafia, an analyst at the Teal Group in Fairfax, Va. "They don't outsource much outside of France."

Dassault is dealing with a confluence of issues.

Of Dassault's 11,600 employees worldwide, more than two-thirds are based in France, where hourly manufacturing pay is 20 percent higher than in the United States in dollar terms and labor laws are notoriously inflexible.

High-tech manufacturers face added political pressure to resist moving coveted skilled jobs to less costly markets. While the company's roots are in military aircraft, private jets have been its mainstay for decades, generating 70 percent of its 3.9 billion euros, or $5.1 billion, in revenue last year. Demand plunged with the global financial crisis that hit in late 2008, diminishing the global jet set as bank credit tightened and private planes became a symbol of excess.

Dassault says new orders have begun to recover, but Éric Trappier, Dassault's chief executive, still describes the market as "convalescent." The company wants to deliver 70 Falcon jets this year, up from 66 in 2012.

Dassault's Rafale order book has been almost entirely dependent on the French government, which has so far ordered about 200 fighters — of which a little more than half have been delivered, at a rate of around 10 a year. Last month, however, the government of François Hollande slashed its commitment to the Rafale, capping France's total projected fleet at 225, down from 286. The cuts are part of an austerity budget that aims to limit overall French military spending.

As such, Dassault faces intense pressure to find export customers for the Rafale. It won a critical victory in early 2012 after India selected it as the preferred bidder for a $10 billion order of 126 planes, beating out Eurofighter as well as its American rivals Boeing and Lockheed Martin. But talks to complete the deal drag on. Analysts say Dassault's prospects in other international fighter contests — in Brazil, Kuwait, the United Arab Emirates and elsewhere — look grim.

"I don't have too many doubts that Dassault can continue to flourish in business jets," said Sash Tusa, an aerospace analyst at Echelon Research and Advisory in London. "But I don't think it has got the ability to maintain its combat jet capability without French government commitment and French government funding."

This raises the question, analysts said, of whether Dassault can — or should — remain an independent player in European military projects over the longer term. France's Rafale orders should keep factories humming through about 2022, while a contract from India might further extend production. But even then, an independent Dassault risks becoming a niche player in an era where shrinking budgets are raising pressure on military companies — and governments — to consider pooling their resources for future programs.

"There will not be another manned fighter development by a single nation-state," Howard Wheeldon, an independent strategist and fellow of the British Royal Aeronautical Society, predicted. "Those days are gone, even for the French."

Another company in a situation similar to Dassault's might seek to spin off its military business and sell it to a larger European player, analysts said. But in addition to a fierce sense of identity, the ownership structure at Dassault significantly complicates matters. A family holding — Groupe Industriel Marcel Dassault — owns a little more than 50 percent of the company, while European Aeronautic Defense and Space, the parent company of Airbus, holds a weighty 46 percent minority stake.

"If the freely floated part of Dassault was in the driver's seat, a sale or merger of the defense business would be the economically rational outcome," said Mr. Aboulafia of the Teal Group. "If you need capital to grow and achieve critical mass, that is the sensible strategy."

But it is a strategy that, for now, remains anathema to the Dassault family and to management. "Merging for merging's sake has no interest for us," Mr. Trappier said. "That's not our philosophy. It's not our concept."

Dassault's innovations have served the company well in recent years. Its all-digital design system has enabled the company to compress the development times for new jets by allowing its more than 1,500 engineers and contractors at a half-dozen locations to collaborate in real time. "These tools are a big help in terms of developing high-quality new products," Mr. Trappier said.

"But they are also critical for us to be competitive" against Dassault's main competitors, Gulfstream of the United States and Bombardier of Canada. And Dassault recognizes that its future lies, if not in consolidation, then in deeper cooperation with its European peers, Mr. Trappier said. In that respect, Dassault feels its digital design and collaborative development methods will guarantee the company a seat at the European defense table.

Last December, a consortium led by Dassault celebrated the first flight of the nEUROn, an armed drone demonstrator that was conceived, designed and built by a half-dozen European companies using the same 3-D platform used to develop the Falcon 7X and the Rafale. The total price tag for the six-year project came to 400 million euros.

"It is the French who were in charge" of the nEUROn, Mr. Trappier said. While no European government has so far committed to an unmanned fighter program, he says he believes the project "paves the way for the future" of combat jet development.

"I am convinced that the next fighters will be developed in cooperation," Mr. Trappier said. "We will find the partners we need," he added. "We don't need to merge to cooperate."
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/11/b...ctured-jet-industry.html?pagewanted=all&_r=1&
 

AVERAGE INDIAN

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MMRCA: a do or die contract for Dassault's military business

Dassault Aviation, the French maker of Rafale fighter jet which is in exclusive negotiations with the Indian ministry of defence for the $12 billion Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) tender is facing rough weather at home.
In the latest strategic defence review carried out under the insistence of the French government, last month, France has capped the purchase of Rafale fighter jets to 225. Originally, the Rafale programme envisaged production of 320 aircraft for the French government but this was cut to 286 later and now to 225. Till date, only 180 of them have been ordered; all of them by France. The company is yet to find an export customer for its front-line fighter jet.

As a result, the cost of Rafale to France has climbed steadily. The French Senate assessment of the 2013 national defence budget pegs the total cost of the Rafale programme, including development expenses, to the French exchequer at €44.2 billion. Dividing the total programme cost with number of aircraft to be built i.e. 225 gives a per aircraft cost of €196.4 million or approx. Rs. 1,390 crore at today's exchange rate.

A cut to Rafale numbers for France poses a challenge to Dassault's military business which is mainly dependent on Rafale sales.

Given the situation, bagging MMRCA, which envisages purchase of 126 aircraft with an option for buying 63 more, is critical for Dassault. However, contrary to initial expectations of a quick contract signature, Dassault-MoD negotiations have dragged on for over a year.

As reported by FE earlier, cost has been an issue since the start besides the company's reluctance to transfer sophisticated technology to India and meet offsets requirements. In the last few months, questions have been raised by Dassault regarding the role of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) in the MMRCA. Moreover, the French company is unwilling to be held liable for the quality, timely and on-cost delivery of the 108 aircraft to be license produced at HAL. This is in breach of tender conditions and has emerged as a major threat to speedy contract conclusion.

Sources FE spoke to said: "Given the slow pace of negotiations it looks increasingly likely that MMRCA will spill over to the next government." But, Dassault CEO Eric Trappier is optimistic. Reportedly, Trappier said: "I hope 2013 should be the year."

As things stand, for Trappier's wish to come true, either Dassault will have to give in to India's demands which it has resisted until now or the Indian side will have to relax its tender criteria. Currently, both look unlikely. Given Dassault's financial situation the company cannot afford any business risk. Whereas, enhanced scrutiny of defence deals in a season ridden with corruption scandals precludes Indian negotiators from extending any concessions.

In this case, the French company will have to do something special. Eyes are on the Paris Air Show which opens 17th of June at Le Bourget in France. Dassault is expected to lay out a red carpet for the Indian delegation. However, in what could come as a dampener to the French company, rumours in the defence ministry corridors suggest that given the sensitive phase of negotiations, the ministry is expected to tone down this year's participation at the show.

- See more at: MMRCA: a do or die contract for Dassault's military business - Indian Express
 

sayareakd

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Seriously you guys are trusting Ambani? He only looks for profit. This is tax payers money, we are paying for TOT, Dassault would love to have reliance because then it will have Reliance dependant on them for everything. We will not get anything, just screw driver assambly or slightly more.

HAL is making SU 30 mki from raw material, with the new aircraft they will learn more and that is what we are aiming for. If this was not the case we can get all aircrafts from France and fly them here.

If Freanch dont want to go with terms of co tracts then we should go for EF.
 

Snuggy321

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Some people think, Private sector is a magic wand ( No offense ), Private sector comes with its own problems, Problems like getting things out of control from Gov hands..
IMO the Soviet way of public sector defence companies was the best and should be applied to India:

For example: The Soviet Air Force sets requirements for a new fighter.

Now every company submits proposals and builds prototypes. The Soviet AF tests the models and chooses one, and the company gets more funding to continue the project.

With this system, there will be competition but those companies wont get out of control.

Of course they need opportunities to work with foreign firms as well since total isolation from the rest of the world is ridiculous in todays world and we are not a communist country.
 

Crusader53

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IMO the Soviet way of public sector defence companies was the best and should be applied to India:

For example: The Soviet Air Force sets requirements for a new fighter.

Now every company submits proposals and builds prototypes. The Soviet AF tests the models and chooses one, and the company gets more funding to continue the project.

With this system, there will be competition but those companies wont get out of control.

Of course they need opportunities to work with foreign firms as well since total isolation from the rest of the world is ridiculous in todays world and we are not a communist country.

I think India needs to make a decision very shortly. Either move on with the Rafale or cut it losses on select another option! Clearly, India can't afford another long protracted Military Program.
 

bose

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GOI must stipulate a time frame for the MMRCA contract deal comming through with Dassault or else there will be stalemate and IAF suffers... let Dassault know that they have say next three months to close the deal or else GOI will call discussion with Euro Fighter makers EADS...

setting a time frame will bring in the urgency to close the deal...
 

Crusader53

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GOI must stipulate a time frame for the MMRCA contract deal comming through with Dassault or else there will be stalemate and IAF suffers... let Dassault know that they have say next three months to close the deal or else GOI will call discussion with Euro Fighter makers EADS...

setting a time frame will bring in the urgency to close the deal...

I agree......
 

Amar Acharya

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hahaha.. the most funny things is that still no final decision has been taken by the government. I mean the deal has been finalized but still money problems is what the government is facing..
 

Waffen SS

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But do we really need costly Rafaels??

I dont think so.A Rafael costs 64 Million$ Euros.A Mirage 2000 costs only 23 Million$ US.So I think it would be better,if Indian air force decided to expand the current Mirage 2000 Fleet,more ever we have Su-30 MKIs as air superiority Fighter,so we dont need Rafaels.
 

p2prada

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I think India needs to make a decision very shortly. Either move on with the Rafale or cut it losses on select another option! Clearly, India can't afford another long protracted Military Program.
If this tender fails, there may be a re-tender. That's how it works here.

I doubt either IAF or MoD will want a govt to govt contract on such a huge deal.
 

halloweene

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Rafale B01 being tested at Bruz (electronic test facilities), for Spectra 5T?
Strong tumours of deliveries of first Rafales to India in 2017 (probably F3R standard). But training, facilities etc could start way before.
Flight manual is beingtranslated in Indhi.
 

arya

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Rafale B01 being tested at Bruz (electronic test facilities), for Spectra 5T?
Strong tumours of deliveries of first Rafales to India in 2017 (probably F3R standard). But training, facilities etc could start way before.
Flight manual is beingtranslated in Indhi.
2017 is it not too much time . what about 16 flying condition planes from france .
 

arya

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If this tender fails, there may be a re-tender. That's how it works here.

I doubt either IAF or MoD will want a govt to govt contract on such a huge deal.
well current govt will not sing the deal , work for next govt and you know they will ask how much for them .

two important line

how much for me if != then what i do
 

halloweene

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2017 is it not too much time . what about 16 flying condition planes from france .
Should be produced for delivery in 2017. As i said its only rumours. Anyway one will need a long time to install infrastructures, train mecas and pilots etc. it is not a three months process.
 

arya

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Should be produced for delivery in 2017. As i said its only rumours. Anyway one will need a long time to install infrastructures, train mecas and pilots etc. it is not a three months process.
pls let me why should not i go for lca mk2 and few su35 , i will get them in short time and less price in totals.
 

Immanuel

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The Super Hornet International will always remain the ideal bird for the MRCA and by wasting more time we are going no where. For the same amount of TOT Dassault is offering we could get a far more all-rounded fighter with far better off the shelf tech at billions in savings over decades. From engine commonality with LCA mk-2 and many options new options like the EPE, CFTs, Large Panel Displays, New IRST, New MAWS, one of the best AESAs on the market and unparalleled battlefield net centricity, SH is the only cutting edge as well as economical platform that will benefit the entire spectrum of aerial warfare.

We need a work horse with proven reasonable operational cost, proven combat record and easy of use/commonality. If we have to get the first bird 2017 anyways, all of the proposed International upgrades can be made available. Moreover, Boeing's speed of delivery would allow us to have the first squadron within a year and half if needed.

Time to dump the Rafale for good, from the onset a great aircraft but Dassault is a piss poor company to deal with.

EF or SH all the way, personally SH was always the only ideal/sensible option
 

halloweene

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The Super Hornet International will always remain the ideal bird for the MRCA and by wasting more time we are going no where. For the same amount of TOT Dassault is offering we could get a far more all-rounded fighter with far better off the shelf tech at billions in savings over decades. From engine commonality with LCA mk-2 and many options new options like the EPE, CFTs, Large Panel Displays, New IRST, New MAWS, one of the best AESAs on the market and unparalleled battlefield net centricity, SH is the only cutting edge as well as economical platform that will benefit the entire spectrum of aerial warfare.

We need a work horse with proven reasonable operational cost, proven combat record and easy of use/commonality. If we have to get the first bird 2017 anyways, all of the proposed International upgrades can be made available. Moreover, Boeing's speed of delivery would allow us to have the first squadron within a year and half if needed.

Time to dump the Rafale for good, from the onset a great aircraft but Dassault is a piss poor company to deal with.

EF or SH all the way, personally SH was always the only ideal/sensible option
Lots of assumptions here...
same amount of TOT...Who told you so?
Unparalleled battlefield net centricity? I doubt so.
Work horse with proven reasonable operational cost... Which Rafale is after lybia and mali.
Who told you delivering in 2017 was Dassault plan, not India's? Rafale take 2 years to be built. (and maybe india want F3R stuff like GaN spectra antennas, meteor etc.)
You may have a squadron of planes... Good. What about the personel training? etc.

Sh is an excellent plane, no doubt. Now think about it what its growth potential? It's a dead end.

Anw as i told you, it is just rumours...
 

Shirman

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Ok firstly posting something regarding mmrca program at the time all the other manufacturers are lobbying hard to kill this deal may not be a good idea but other than selecting rafale not only are we delaying the airforce's capability and ability but also taunting airforce's selection capability
things like this eventually happen as seen in this link of Headlines today | Video | We can't keep waiting because you can't decide: Jittery Air Force slams govt on arms deal delays | India Videos | - India Today

any ways @halloweene whats special for this years Paris Airshow 2013.....i heard a full scale future Dassault rafale f4 with CFTs and enclosed weapon pods will be on static display........
 
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