Know Your 'Rafale'

p2prada

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About Garuda iv...

Must have been top notch exercise for french AdlA to engage 1/2 Cigognes (storks, legendary air fight squadron). Will try to find air & cosmos article in french, as some parts seem to be lost in translation...Do you have issue number?
Are you referring to me? I don't have that info.

It would be interesting to know what happened there, especially if MKI used Bars to simulate BVR engagements.

There were limited and complete BVR engagements according to the article.

Seems to be a smaller version of Red Flag in France.

Btw, IAF is going to Red Flag this year.
 

WMD

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No Rafale, nuclear deals during Hollande visit
SOURCE: TNN

India and France will not sign a contract for nuclear reactors at Jaitapur during the forthcoming visit of French President Francois Hollande. Neither will they seal the deal for 126 Rafale fighter aircraft. But as Hollande makes India his first stop in Asia, both sides are keen to showcase a growing relationship.

The complex negotiations for the nuclear reactor deal will get a leg up during the official talks. Described as "complex", the deal has been caught in the toils of nuclear protests in India, the Indian nuclear liability law and review procedures for the European Pressurized Reactor (EPR) in a post-Fukushima environment.

India and France have started a dialogue on "civilian nuclear responsibility" which is a euphemism for consultations on the liability law. While France has not expressed displeasure, it continues to have concerns and the dialogue is intended to find answers to the vexing issues of supplier liability clauses in the law. After a first meeting, the two sides are expected to have a second in the run-up to the visit. However, there is an expectation of an agreement for joint manufacture between NPCIL, Areva and Alstom.

Meanwhile, sources said the EPR has been subject to a year's review of its safety features — China has two EPRs and Finland has one. France's Areva has reportedly carried out a few fixes and enhanced the safety features. "These have been shared at every stage with the Indian nuclear authorities," said diplomatic sources.

The Rafale deal has probably been pushed further down the year because India is cash-strapped. Rafale won the race for supplying 126 MMRCA to India, but during his recent visit to Paris, foreign minister Salman Khurshid said India had asked France to supply an extra 63 aircraft. The deal, under which the first 18 aircraft will be manufactured in France and the rest in India, involves an extraordinary number of related offset deals, as well as questions of technology transfer.

In his conversation with PM Manmohan Singh, Hollande is expected to talk about Mali, where French troops are fighting to oust al-Qaida from the desert. India, unexpectedly, has stepped up to be involved in the Mali campaign, contributing to upgrading the Malian army as well as contributing $100 million to the stabilization and reconstruction of the desert state.
 

Kunal Biswas

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Dassault negotiates with MoD for larger role for Reliance Group

Dassault's concern is rooted in the three-way contract that New Delhi has mandated for the Rafale. The Government of India will sign a contract with Dassault for 18 fully built fighters; and for 108 more fighters that must be built in HAL. Dassault will sign a parallel contract with HAL, laying down the terms for building 108 fighters in HAL, and spelling out the responsibilities of either party. [...] The French company fears that the new arrangement could hold Dassault responsible for delays actually caused by HAL. For that reason Dassault is arguing in the CNC for doing as much manufacturing as possible in its joint venture (JV) with Reliance.
"Rafale would ideally like to build its entire fighter in the Dassault-Reliance JV with HAL's role being reduced to a token screwdriver turn. But the MoD cannot accept that, since the Request for Proposals (RfP) mandates that the Rafale will be assembled in HAL. Negotiations are now about the maximum role permissible for the Dassault-Reliance JV," says an official involved in the discussions. .
'Rafale deal likely by mid-2013' | Business Standard
 

Kunal Biswas

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Sagem creates Indian subsidiary, Sagem Services India Private Ltd
Sagem (Safran), the European leader in navigation, optronics and avionics systems and equipment and safety-critical software, has created Sagem Services India Private Ltd., a wholly-owned subsidiary that will be headquartered in New Delhi.

Primarily focused on maintenance, Sagem Services India will provide customer support for all Sagem avionics, optronics and inertial navigation systems and equipment in service in India.

The creation of Sagem Services India marks a major step forward in Sagem's development in this country. Working closely with its customers, Sagem will be able to enhance its role in the development of India's aerospace industry, and form new partnerships in all of its business sectors.

Already a contributor to several major Indian civil and military aircraft programs (1), Sagem works closely with Indian industry to supply avionics and navigation systems for both new aircraft and modernization programs.

Sagem's new subsidiary will draw on the resources of its parent company, Safran, which already has some 2,100 employees in India.
Sagem s'implante en Inde - Air&Cosmos
Sagem

=========================

Sagem (Groupe Safran) = AASM, Mica seeker, Rafale's navigation systems, M88 fadec, Rafale's FSO (with Thales)...
 

Immanuel

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Okay, so you have no proof against the ROEs. At Red Flag MKI only simulated Archer, at Garuda IV it simulated R-77 and M2000 pilots commented on its power and how they defeated it. The radar wasn't in training mode during its time in France = fact.
BARS was never 'on' out side India, was always in training mode every where they went.
 

hello_10

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I had a talk with a French member on a forum as below. I think India may make a deal in this regard with the visiting French president as below: :ranger:

=>
When we equip our armed forces, the expenditure may be considered at the official rate of exchange, because you can not buy equipment in purchasing power parity.

If we consider Turkey, Russia and France the different GDP at official rate are: 783.1 Billions, 1954 Billions, 2580 Billions.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/fields/2195.html#fr

In 2020 France will have 286 Rafale + some Mirage 2000 and it is not at all a lack of fiscal discipline as the article would have us believe. It is likely that this force will be greater than that of Turkey.

Russians Plans , however, show a lack of fiscal discipline.
I think France would sell its half of the Mirage2000-5 to India on half price, and have more Rafale as this is they want. Indian Air Force has very good experience on this bird and they want it in their inventory till 2030 at least......

I think, if France had to pay around $100million for a fully armed Mirage2000-5, which they have used for 20 years and it may still be used for the next 20 years then better they would sell it to India at the price of $50million each, something like this, make sense? Indian side would be very happy on this proposal, I guess. and it will also help France to reduce it high numbers of Mirage2000-5, to replace them with Rafale this way :cheers:

we find France having 250+ Mirage2000-5, loaded with missile etc, as below. and I would be very happy to buy 100 of them for IAF, for the price of around $5.0billions :tup:

French Air Force - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


=>
France would agree easily on that... but not India!
France will retired 50 Mirage 2000 B-C -5F between 2015 - 2020, and 30 M 2000 D, and 23 Mirage 2000 N in 2017/2018. It means that we reach the end of potential for these planes.
while I sincerely believe that India may buy at least 50 Mirage2000-5, including all the 23 Mirage2000N too, and they would be very happy to pay at least $2.5billion for these fully armed aircraft. I can't believe why IAF would reject this offer if they recently signed a deal of $2.3 billions to upgrade its fleet of hardly 51 old Mirage2000H to Mirage2000-5 mk2 standard?????

I think we do need to communicate to the concern people in this regard. Mirage2000H is still for the purpose of nuclear attack for India, the most reliable aircraft for IAF for A2G operations. IAF has been even trying to buy old 10 Mirage2000-5 from UAE but the deal couldn't go through....... with my experience, if I could be the man to take action in this regard from Indian side then I can pay $2.5billion right now for a deal of 50 Mirage2000-5 of France, even if they deliver them by 2015
:coffee:
 
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Ray

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Hopefully it is signed and there is no fallout of another scam.

Naik said last night on TV that the deal was squeaky clean.
 

cloud_9

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Rafale jet talks brighten after rough patch: officials
NEW DELHI: India and France are speeding up negotiations on a $10 billion deal for 126 Rafale aircraft following months of delays because of disagreements over the cost of building them in India, two Indian Defence Ministry officials told Reuters.

India started exclusive talks with French Dassault Aviation's Rafale for a 126-plane order in January 2012, over the competing Eurofighter Typhoon . The two sides still have to sign a final contract.

The deal is likely to be discussed during a two-day visit by French President Francois Hollande to India beginning on Thursday, but both sides have played down the chances of it being finalised.

The talks have progressed slowly because of differences about how to price technology transfer, sourcing of spares and the selection of an Indian partner, the officials said.

"There are three issues of contention - pricing of transfer of technology, sourcing from India and the joint venture with Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL)," said a senior official at the ministry, who said negotiations had been delayed by a few months, largely because of those issues.

Another official said the contentious points had been mostly resolved and the deal could be finalised as soon as July.

Dassault declined to comment.

The second official said Dassault had earlier asked India to pay up to $2 billion more for the future upgrading of technology that would be transferred over the 30-year life-cycle of the deal.

French Foreign Minister Laurent Fabius said on Sunday that talks with India to complete the long-awaited first export order for Rafale were looking up. At an air show in Bangalore last week, India pledged not to let defence cuts stand in the way of efforts to finalise the deal.

Following India's strong objections to the cost escalation, French has broadly agreed to review its decision but negotiations were still going on for calculating the price for the maintenance and life-cycle cost of the planes, the second official said.

India has been insisting that at least 30-50 per cent of the value of the contract be sourced from Indian companies, while Dassault wanted to lower that per centage, saying Indian firms do not have the capacity to supply that quantity of parts, the official said.

India revised an offset policy for procurements of arms last year, and specifies that defence contract over 3 billion rupees must plough back at least 30 per cent of the contract value into India as offsets.

Since 2007, Indian companies have secured sourcing contracts worth more than $4 billion under this policy.

"The contention is also over the pricing - you can put different value to hardware, services including transfer of technology," said the first official, who declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the issue.

Hollande, accompanied by ministers and corporate delegates, is likely to discuss the sale of nuclear plants to India and investment in other sectors, India's Foreign Ministry said.

Under the Rafale deal, Dassault is expected to send 18 ready-made jets, then manufacture the rest in India.
 

Shirman

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Hopefully it is signed and there is no fallout of another scam.

Naik said last night on TV that the deal was squeaky clean.
If eurofighter had won i would say THIS WAS THE MAHA SCAM b cause of the English-Italian connection.......

Any ways don't know if this has already been posted but here it goes.....:-
IAF Chief: Rafale Contract Should Be Signed This Year | Defense Update - Military Technology & Defense News

Rafale deal should be signed in 2013 by NAK Browne..........
 

anoop_mig25

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ok there is gut feelings that this deal may be scrapped . Currently watching Times Now and dassault is begin dragged in this helicopter --contervorsy where a men has sued dassault for not paying his comission as inda had purchase dassault`s mirage 2000-5 deal
 

sayareakd

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big money has been thrown around for that, if you look at old posts, i said that all will make money from media to CBI to bench all @anoop.
 

anoop_mig25

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big money has been thrown around for that, if you look at old posts, i said that all will make money from media to CBI to bench all @anoop.
@sayareakd i hope and believe RAFALE IS BEST SELECTED PLANE AND HOPE THIS MMRCA DEAL ISN`T SCRAPPED.Also hope they sign it before next lok -sabha election. because i fear if 3rd front government comes post election then i am sure they would scrap the deal and would sell mmrca to highest bidder
 
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