Know Your 'Rafale'

[Drsomnath999]

it is pre contract agreement i think .but it would be a welcome news for Indian air force news as it would confirm india is going to buy rafale & silent all skeptics

 

[Drsomnath999]

Serval's eyes shine, even in daylight

Increased emergency strikes, the first missions of Rafale with Reco-NG pod occurred in the last 72 hours northeast Mali. This is the fourth stage on which the couple operates in three years. It also confirms, if need be, the important information needed for this theater, which has never seen before mobilization, on any other theater in modern French history.
Indeed, Serval absorbs half of ATL-2 airworthy, but also two F1CR Mirage, Rafale capable missions Reco-NG, and special abilities of human intelligence on the ground (1). The squadron Poitou-loading process and also paste the information to end targeting. In addition, two drones have been engaged Snowy Niamey (more than 50% of the fleet). As means of special forces, these devices can provide both the information that the cooperative targetting the benefit of effectors available in this area.
Google Translate

About Thales Aeros Reco-NG recce pod:

1) 2 parabolic antennas: images transmission in real time up to 100 megabits per second with 360 ° coverage.
2) High speed Infrared scanner at very low altitude with a 180 ° panoramic view.
3) Direct data link between the pod and a ground station (LOS, Line Of Sight). Range: several hundred kilometers.
4) Electronic box: storage unit (1 terra octet) used in case of data link failure and viewfinder calculator (programmable or led by pilot).
5) 2 large sized focal plane arrays in the visible and in the 3-5 μm infrared - 2 wide and 2 narrow high resolution fields of view, both in the visible and in the infrared, high or medium altitude.

3d image built from a Reco NG pod located several tens of kilometers away. The 3D top view is obtained by assembling several IR and optical pics (source Air&Cosmos).

COURTESY:OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE

 

[Armand2REP]

it is pre contract agreement i think .but it would be a welcome news for Indian air force news as it would confirm india is going to buy rafale & silent all skeptics

There is no pre-contract at this level...

The Government of India must press ahead with its last-lap negotiations with Dassault Aviation of France for the finalisation of the definitive contract for the acquisition of 126 Rafale medium multi-role combat aircraft.

Rafale will best meet India's security needs

 

[nrj]

Whats the celebration about? Some pom pom high level leader meet wasting money on dinner & bouquets ?

If anybody benefits form this jolly-hug meet is political parties of two countries, while we count on the delay over nonsense profiling of deal signature which is tiny implicit part of tender awarded last year.

 

[natarajan]

first 30 aircrafts should be manufactured in france itself ,then the remaining should be started by Hal ,so when they delivery gets completed it will 2015 and from 2016 hal can start producing .This way we can avoid delay and we will get atleast one or above squadron

 

[SpArK]

Exciting news....its been a while ...

 

[p2prada]

When will new tender float for MRCA

As a matter of fact, there will be a new one. :thumb:

 

[Blackwater]

As a matter of fact, there will be a new one. :thumb:

Yeh Desh Hai Veer Jawanon Ka

 

[p2prada]

first 30 aircrafts should be manufactured in france itself ,then the remaining should be started by Hal ,so when they delivery gets completed it will 2015 and from 2016 hal can start producing .This way we can avoid delay and we will get atleast one or above squadron

Something similar. First 18 fly away, then one or two squadrons in SKDs, followed by one or two squadrons in CKDs followed by full manufacture in India of at least two-three squadrons. That's 6 squadrons in all.

I would say 18 fly away, 36 SKDs, 18 CKDs and 54 from ground up.

For MKI it was 50 fly away, 80 SKD+CKD, 60 from ground up. That's for 190 MKIs.

Whats the celebration about? Some pom pom high level leader meet wasting money on dinner & bouquets ?

If anybody benefits form this jolly-hug meet is political parties of two countries, while we count on the delay over nonsense profiling of deal signature which is tiny implicit part of tender awarded last year.

That is the price for demoCRAZY, freedom at the cost of logic and common sense. The only thing that works.

What are the "superior" technologies Dassault is going to give to India through this deal?

Manufacturing capabilities, new materials and electronics. Possibly our first 4.5th gen aircraft, depending on how quickly the Super MKI program progresses.

 

[Neil]

Ajai Shukla: Rafale's July take-off

Ajai Shukla: Rafale's July take-off


Will Aero India 2013, the aeronautical jamboree that kicks off in Bangalore on Wednesday, be relatively subdued? Since 2005, zing has been imparted to successive versions of this biennial air show by the Indian Air Force's riveting, multi-billion dollar quest for a medium multi-role combat aircraft ( MMRCA) to help meet our two-front security challenges. Every alternate year, the world's foremost military aircraft vendors – including Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Dassault, Eurofighter,Gripen International and MiG – would converge on Bangalore along with myriad sub-vendors, pitching for their products and vetting prospective Indian partners for the offset obligations that would accrue from the world's biggest international fighter deal. And each time one of the contending fighters would scream into the skies for an aerobatics display, the pilot would push it to the limits knowing that key decision makers were watching the performance.

But now, with Dassault's Rafale fighter having won that six-way contest, has the fizz gone out of Aero India? With none of the Rafale's erstwhile rivals coming to Bangalore, what will the spectators and aerobatics buffs crane their necks upwards at? Other than the Rafale, the only foreign fighters performing aerobatics will be The Russian Knights, a Moscow-based team that flies the Sukhoi-27. Is this a metaphor for a larger strategic truth: that after everyone has come and gone, there still remain the Russians?

Actually, any reports of the demise of Aero India would be exaggerated, given India's dubious status as the world's biggest buyer of weaponry. Besides, New Delhi is also the world's most unpredictable arms buyer; and some fighter manufacturers believe that the last word has not yet been said on the MMRCA purchase. Even as New Delhi and Dassault continue to negotiate, the runner-up in the MMRCA contest, Eurofighter GmbH, maintains a major presence in New Delhi. It will be there in Bangalore even if the Eurofighter itself will not fly displays.



Few know better than EADS, one of Eurofighter GmbH's parent companies, how quickly apparently done deals collapse in the Indian procurement environment. In 2007, New Delhi reversed its decision to buy 197 light helicopters from Eurocopter after allegations of corruption emerged. In 2010, New Delhi cancelled its tender for Multi-Role Tanker Transport (MRTT) aerial refuelling aircraft, which Airbus seemed poised to win, and reissued the tender (last month, Airbus finally won the contract).

"It's not over till the fat lady sings," says an EADS official. With general elections due in the first half of 2014, there is speculation that negotiations with Dassault could run into a new government in New Delhi. Another aspect that EADS and Eurofighter regard as a potential deal-breaker is Dassault's (perceived) inability to deliver the Rafale to the IAF at the price that Dassault quoted in its commercial bid. According to this argument, Dassault had counted on winning the Brazilian order for 36 Rafale fighters, and a UAE order for up to 60 Rafales, bringing down production costs. But with only the Indian tender for 126 fighters having been won, Dassault's cost of production could be significantly higher than quoted. If so, political uncertainty would be compounded by financial unviability.

So how far is the ministry of defence (MoD) from actually signing a deal with Dassault? In my understanding there is a better-than-even chance that this could happen in June/July. People who should know insist that there is no looming deal-breaker in terms of cost; and that ongoing negotiations are not about cost but about the modalities of production in India.

Dassault's major concern is that New Delhi's Request for Proposals (as the tender document is called) mandates that the Rafale be assembled in Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), with Dassault responsible for timely delivery. The French vendor argues that it can take responsibility for the first 18 Rafale fighters, which will be built in France and delivered to the IAF in flyaway condition. But the next 118 aircraft, which must be assembled in HAL, would be clouded by uncertainty, given HAL's poor production ethos and track record. Recent delays in HAL's production of the BAE Systems trainer, the Hawk, support Dassault's contention.

Dassault is arguing for doing much of the production and integration at a facility that it will set up in partnership with Reliance, which it partnered a year ago. Negotiations continue, with Dassault contending that it cannot be responsible for delivery if the aircraft were to be manufactured on a HAL line; while the MoD insists that the Dassault-Reliance venture can build components, sub-systems and systems, but the integration must be done at HAL.

Meanwhile, the Rafale will entertain the crowds at Aero India, unencumbered by the presence of a crop of rivals. And, as long as India retains its dubious status as the world's biggest buyer of weaponry (Stockholm International Peace Research Institute estimates that India imported $3.58 billion, or Rs 19,000 crore, worth of conventional arms in 2011), Aero India 2013 will be bigger than ever.

Tailpiece: also flying aerobatics displays will be the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), an Indian-designed and -built fighter that is a major aeronautical triumph but has never got the funding or attention that it deserves. The Tejas, at an advanced stage of flight testing, will perform vertical loops, barrel rolls and display its low-speed handling capabilities. Keep an eye out for it.



Ajai Shukla: Rafale's July take-off | idrw.org

 

[Immanuel]

Okay... prove me wrong!



"It was with that ( of course simulated ) weapons have had to deal the French pilots who opposed him Mica EM / IR (Mirage 2000 -5F and Rafale F3), Super 530D and Magic 2 (Mirage 2000RDI). And in general they believe that everything went in our favor . Of course , recognizes the pilot Mirage 2000 -5F, their powerful radar allowed them before we learn about the situation in the sky , but we proved radar is not everything."

If you want to call our M2000 pilots liars... be my guest.

P2P is right, BARS has never been used outside the country, training mode is what they play with outside, more than enough to make tandoori.

 

[Armand2REP]

Okay, so you have no proof against the ROEs. At Red Flag MKI only simulated Archer, at Garuda IV it simulated R-77 and M2000 pilots commented on its power and how they defeated it. The radar wasn't in training mode during its time in France = fact.

 

[p2prada]

Okay, so you have no proof against the ROEs.

Red Flag

How about reading instead of being a prick. Then decide. Googling is so easy.

At Red Flag MKI only simulated Archer, at Garuda IV it simulated R-77

Exercise Red Flag 2008-4 / Su-30MKI vs F-15, F-16, F-22

Read the transcript and understand. Read the following articles that show the Indian line as well.

Some snippets so you can understand.

Firstly, the Tumansky engines are very suseptible to FOD (Foreign Object Damage). Now the reason thats a big deal is because they asked for a 1 minute spacing between take offs. At Red Flag with nearly 50-60 aircraft supposed to take off,

I suppose we need 50-60 aircraft for dog fights.

Where they had problems was they killed a lot of friends. Red Flag has changed now, the first week of Red Flag is basically large force deployment and the second week is about a campaign.... where the surface to air missiles come up. What was happening was that they did not have combat I.D capability.

You know what was happening is that they didn't have the datalink with the Awacs. Big internet data links. The Koreans, the French and us could see the complete picture on the HUD, but the IAF had to ask the AWACS. they would ask about a target ahead, "Contact on my nose 22 miles, friendly or hostile?" Awacs would say "No hostile within 40 miles of you" then "Fox2." (laughs) The first two days they got hit bad, they were getting shot down while waiting for answers so they decided to kill the other guy fast without knowing.. better you die than me. So they had a fairly high number of fratricides. But they took the fratricides very seriously.

Funny that. We were taking out aircraft from 22 miles or 35 Kms using Archers. R-77 range must be severely understated then.

I wonder since when we needed datalinks, AWACS and IFF for dog fights.

Do you know what Fox2 means. Or should I make one up for you?

Red Flag isn't a 1v1, 2v2 or 4v4 engagement like in Garud 4. It consists of entire battle groups of 3 or 4 squadrons of aircraft. As Col Ternof mentions, 50-60 aircraft. IAF participated with 8 MKIs and flew alongside Rafales, F-15Ks and F-16s against aggressor squadrons of F-15s and F-16s.

IAF flew strike missions and killed the enemy whenever they showed up.

Continue reading the link I posted right to the end.

and M2000 pilots commented on its power and how they defeated it. The radar wasn't in training mode during its time in France = fact.

All right live in your bubble. OPSEC must have a different meaning in France.

 

[Armand2REP]

Red Flag

How about reading instead of being a prick. Then decide. Googling is so easy.

It doesn't say anything about it.

Read the transcript and understand. Read the following articles that show the Indian line as well.

Why would you even post that clown? We already know he wasn't even there. Not like he said anything to contradict me...

I suppose we need 50-60 aircraft for dog fights.

What does that have to do with the price of NPLs in China, or tea for that matter? Nobody is talking about FOD or # of aircraft. Just the ROEs which you have yet to show regarding missiles.

Funny that. We were taking out aircraft from 22 miles or 35 Kms using Archers. R-77 range must be severely understated then.

For the record, you are stating more than Archers were simulated for MKI at its Red Flag debut?

wonder since when we needed datalinks, AWACS and IFF for dog fights.

There was far more going on than just air to air. IAF was mostly tasked to the bombing mission.

All right live in your bubble. OPSEC must have a different meaning in France.

Live in your bubble. I don't go around calling my pilots liars.

 

[p2prada]

Why would you even post that clown? We already know he wasn't even there. Not like he said anything to contradict me...

I posted what is considered to be our rebuttal to that clown. Two editors who were present during the mountain home and Red flag exercises give their views regarding it.

The conditions in Red flag were all long range engagement when it came to MKIs. TVC was not used either.

quote]What does that have to do with the price of NPLs in China, or tea for that matter? Nobody is talking about FOD or # of aircraft. Just the ROEs which you have yet to show regarding missiles.

I posted what is relevant. I asked you to read what was posted after his transcript.

For the record, you are stating more than Archers were simulated for MKI at its Red Flag debut?

Yes.

There was far more going on than just air to air. IAF was mostly tasked to the bombing mission.

According to one of the articles we had many kills as well.

Live in your bubble. I don't go around calling my pilots liars.

Nobody is calling your pilots liars. I am saying they said nothing about Bars being used to the max. The point I am making is Bars is still not cleared for use outside India because Bars and Irbis are very similar in operation and control. The Russians also use Bars in their newest MKIs.

 

[satish007]

Rafale purchase delay not due to budget cuts: Antony
Rafale purchase delay not due to budget cuts

India says budget cuts won't delay Rafale talks - Yahoo! News India
India says budget cuts won't delay Rafale talks

What's up @Armand?
Need help from China? we can buy some su35 and give some pressure to India, but you need to give all information of Rafale to us and sale couple to us. we give you good price

 

[Armand2REP]

I posted what is relevant. I asked you to read what was posted after his transcript.

It said nothing about missile ROEs.

For the record, you are stating more than Archers were simulated for MKI at its Red Flag debut?

Yes.

The same holds true for the capabilities of the AA-12 Adder Air-to-Air Missile (R-77 "Amraamski") which was not to be simulated in the exercises, instead virtual A-10 "Archers" (R-73) had to be fired.

MILAVIA Military Aviation Specials - Red Flag 2008-4: Flankers in Eagle's Realm

According to one of the articles we had many kills as well.

Frats are not the right kind of kills you want.

Nobody is calling your pilots liars. I am saying they said nothing about Bars being used to the max. The point I am making is Bars is still not cleared for use outside India because Bars and Irbis are very similar in operation and control. The Russians also use Bars in their newest MKIs.

If Bars was in training mode, they wouldn't be fighting R-77s and talking about special tactics used to avoid the "powerful radar" of the MKI.

 

[p2prada]

You gave me a link which says Rafale's scored 6:2 against Super Hornets in a USAF sponsored exercise. Nice.

Anyway, google found that R-77s were, indeed, not used. Application of R-27 is unknown, perhaps not used anyway. So no Bars overall. That means only R-73s were used for BVR combat.

It still doesn't prove anything for Garuda IV because IAF simulated R-77 kills using Mirage-2000s during Garuda III. Apart from that I already posted a link where 1v1s were range limited when it came to BVR. IAF and RAF had similar range limitations during Indra dhanush 2007 at 18 and 20 miles. Even Tornados provided information to MKIs. Radars were turned off during both the exercises.

IndiaÂ’s Sukhois turn it on in UK skies, turn off radars - Indian Express

Wasn't any different during Indra dhanush 2010 either.

Even if we assume the radar was turned on during Garuda IV, there is no guarantee the BVR, ECM and ECCM capabilities were used, not that they were necessarily required. Nor does it guarantee the various other modes were used nor do we know whether the scripts allowed the proper use of a radar in conjunction with the aircraft in the first place.

 

[Defcon 1]

HAL will be 'main partner' in Rafale aircraft deal: Dassault

BANGALORE (PTI): Identifying HAL as its "main partner" in the multirole combat aircraft deal, France's Dassault Aviation has said it will set up a joint venture company with Reliance Industries to work on the USD 10 billion Rafale project.

It said the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) is the "main partner" of the French firm in the Indian contract, which is one of the biggest aircraft deals in the world. The French company's Rafale fighter aircraft was shortlisted by India last year.

"We have a special partnership with Reliance company. It as a private company wants to be in defence sector and we are supporting this partnership...

"We will create JV company with Reliance in India," Dassault's Chief Executive Officer Eric Trappier told PTI here.

The French firm said the Joint Venture (JV) company would be set up after the deal is signed and expressed the hope that it would be signed within this year itself.

The company would be working with several private and public sector companies in India for completing the contract needs, Trappier said.

Asked about reports over Dassault seeking a bigger role for any Indian company in the production phase of the aircraft, he said there was "no confusion" on the issue and that his company was free to decide on its partners as stated by the IAF and the Defence Ministry.

The Dassault CEO said RIL would be its partner and would help it in managing a supply chain and project management of the programme and "they will help us to be in India".

Dassault Aviation's Rafale aircraft was shortlisted by India early last year as it choice for procuring 126 Medium- Multirole Combat Aircraft (M-MRCA).

The French fighter had edged out five other aircraft including American F-16 and F-18, Russian MiG 35 and European Eurofighter to bag the contract.8th Feb

HAL will be 'main partner' in Rafale aircraft deal: Dassault - Brahmand.com

 

[halloweene]

About Garuda iv...

Air Commodore S.K. Ghotia who is also the chief co-ordinator of the IAF/FAF co-operation, Garuda IV is a milestone in the Indo-French defence co-operation. "This has been the widest scope ever accomplished between three nations. The Ex brought together the best fighting machines of the world such as the Sukhoi's, F16s, Rafale and Mirage 2000-5. Our pilots flew in these cockpits and have gained a tremendous learning experience. The engineers, technicians and all other members of the team have also benefitted substantially from the exercise. The intensity of the exercise has been increased gradually to enhance the understanding of the contingent members begining with basic one-v-one missions and limited BVR (beyond visual range) capabilities, and then progressed to multi-aircraft strikes and counter air missions with complete BVR capability, and concluding with Large Force Engagement sorties".

Must have been top notch exercise for french AdlA to engage 1/2 Cigognes (storks, legendary air fight squadron). Will try to find air & cosmos article in french, as some parts seem to be lost in translation...Do you have issue number?