Know Your 'Rafale'

[Drsomnath999]

Other aircraft vying for a contract from the Canadian Government

Ottawa is back on the market for new fighter planes, with at least five jets vying for the military's attention. The F-35 remains in the mix, but the government will also look at other manufacturers in its search for a replacement for Canada's fleet of CF-18s. The manufacturers are all salivating at the multibillion-dollar contract, with each aircraft having unique selling points – and drawbacks. In addition to the varying cost of the planes, here is what they each offer:

F-35: Still in development, the Lockheed-Martin F-35 Lightning II promises to be the most technologically advanced of all competitors. While others fighters have state-of-the-art technologies to evade radars, the F-35 is the only one that comes with a stealth exterior shell, making it the hardest of them all to detect. But the price tag remains in flux, including maintenance, as the plane is still not in military operation. There are also many technological hurdles to clear before anyone can confidently predict that the $1-trillion program will be a success. The jet is seen as being well suited for Canada's overseas missions, but it has only one engine, which raises questions about its suitability for missions over the Canadian North.

Super Hornet: The Boeing F-18 Super Hornet is seen as the leading contender if the government abandons its plans to buy the F-35 and opts for another aircraft. In use by the U.S. Navy and the Australian military, the twin-engine fighter jet does not include full stealth capabilities, but can be operated jointly in missions with the U.S. military. The aircraft is the one that most resembles Canada's current fleet of CF-18s, which would make for an easier transition to the new platform. The Super Hornet has been in operation for a decade, which means it is less advanced than the F-35, but the experience also offers guarantees about its performance and its acquisition and maintenance cost.

Typhoon: The Eurofighter Typhoon, produced by a consortium of three aerospace giants in Europe, is in use in Italy, Germany, the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia, among other militaries. Known as being effective in dogfights, the twin-engine fighter has the fastest maximum speed of all five jets and more range than its two U.S.-built rivals. Still, internal records show that in 2010, the Canadian government had deemed that it was also more expensive than the F-35 and the F-18 to acquire.

Rafale: The Dassault Rafale was at the heart of the recent allied bombing campaign in Libya, where it showcased its value in the type of overseas operation that is increasingly favoured by the Canadian government. The fighter jet was created after the French military got out of the Eurofighter consortium. The company has promised to assemble the jets in Canada if it wins the contract, which could create pressure on other firms to boost their domestic spinoffs if the contract goes to tenders.

Gripen: The Saab Gripen is a lightweight, single-engine plane, and the only aircraft that is not produced by a NATO country. It is older than some of its competitors, but also cheaper to purchase and operate, with proven efficiency in northern environments.

Other aircraft vying for a contract from the Canadian Government - The Globe and Mail


Hmm well i think canadians would go for F35

 

[p2prada]

The US won't let them. They will make a lot of noise and still go for the F-35.

Same with Korea. F-35 is behind in the race among all competing aircraft. But they will go for it.

There are somethings which simply cannot change.

 

[Drsomnath999]

Federal government cancels F-35 fighter purchase



OTTAWA — The F-35 jet fighter purchase, the most persistent thorn in the federal government's side and the subject of a devastating auditor-general's report last spring, is dead.

Faced with the imminent release of an audit by accountants KPMG that will push the total projected life-cycle costs of the aircraft above $30 billion, the operations committee of the federal Cabinet decided to scrap the controversial sole-source program and go back to the drawing board, a source familiar with the decision said.

This occurred after Chief of the Defence Staff Thomas Lawson, while en route overseas, was called back urgently to appear before the committee, the source said.

The decision is sure to have ripple effects around the world, as any reduction in the number of aircraft on order causes the price to go up for all the other buyers. Canada is one of nine F-35 consortium members, including the United States.

The CF-18s currently flown by the RCAF are at the tail end of their life cycle and are not expected to be operable much beyond 2020 at the outside.

The fighter procurement process has been the responsibility of Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose since last spring, following an audit by Auditor General Michael Ferguson. It is understood that veteran senior bureaucrat Tom Ring, who handled the government's much-praised shipbuilding contract process in the fall of 2011, is now steering the reframed fighter replacement process, from within Public Works.

Last spring, Ferguson ignited a political firestorm when he reported that the top-line cost cited by the Conservatives in the 2011 election campaign — $9 billion for 65 planes, or $15 billion including maintenance and other life-cycle costs — was $10-billion below the Defence Department's internal estimate.

Even the internal figure of $25.1 billion was suspect, critics said, because it assumed a 20-year life cycle. The longevity of the Lockheed-Martin-built aircraft, according to the Pentagon, is 36 years.

KPMG's audit, due out next week, has confirmed the contention, long made by critics such as former assistant deputy minister (materiel) Alan Williams, that the F-35 program's real cost would be much higher than any previously stated government estimate, sources say.

Parliamentary Budget Officer Kevin Page predicted a cost of $30 billion over a 30-year life cycle.

Public Works Minister Rona Ambrose, who took on the F-35 file after Ferguson's audit, has been signalling since last spring that she was unhappy with the procurement process. On Nov. 22 in the House of Commons, Ambrose said the government is committed to "a full evaluation of all choices, not simply a refresh."

Lawson, in an appearance before the House of Commons defence committee Nov. 29, further opened the door when he confirmed what industry critics have long said: The F-35 is not the only modern fighter with measures to evade radar, though it is considered to be the most advanced in this respect. "Is there only one airplane that can meet the standard of stealth that's set out in the statement of requirements?" Liberal defence critic John McKay asked.

Lawson's answer: "No."

The F-35's unique stealthiness had long been advanced as the single most compelling argument for buying that plane.

Also in the mix, former industry minister David Emerson last week published a report on the aerospace and space sectors, calling on Ottawa to more aggressively press for Industrial and Regional Benefits (IRBs) and In-Service Support (ISS) contracts when inking procurement deals. Lockheed-Martin has in the past been reluctant to hand over its proprietary technology to clients. Industry insiders believe the Emerson report added impetus to the decision to start over.

Boeing's Super Hornet, Dassault's Rafale, Saab's Gripen, the Eurofighter Typhoon, and the F-35, are seen as the leading contenders in any new contest to replace the CF-18 fleet.


Federal government cancels F-35 fighter purchase

 

[arunpat]

Dassault 'optimistic' on Rafale talks with India

PARIS | Wed Dec 5, 2012 2:01am IST
(Reuters) - Talks between French plane-maker Dassault Aviation (AVMD.PA) and India over a $15 billion Rafale fighter contract are continuing, Dassault's chief executive said, adding he was "relatively optimistic".

India selected the Rafale to enter exclusive negotiations for a potential 126-plane order in late January, beating the competing Eurofighter Typhoon (EAD.PA) (SIFI.MI) (BAES.L) and lifting hopes for a sale that would boost French pride and restore the luster of its aviation industry.

"We are deep in talks at the moment. It's a complicated country, the negotiations are tough, but there is a desire to wrap up on both sides," CEO Charles Edelstenne told a parliamentary hearing on Tuesday.

"I'm relatively optimistic."

Edelstenne also said that growing public speculation over a change at the top for subsidiary Thales (TCFP.PA) - which he described as an "eventual change in governance" - was having an impact on talks with clients and making them more difficult.

(Reporting by Cyril Altmeyer; Editing by Tim Dobbyn)

Dassault 'optimistic' on Rafale talks with India | Reuters

 

[arunpat]

NDTV's Vishnu som on Rafale

Flying the Dassault Rafale Video: NDTV.com

 

[arunpat]

Part two of Vishnu som's video


The story of the Rafale Video: NDTV.com

 

[redragon]

Deal will be signed

Indian definition for this normally is 2-3 yrs...

 

[Snuggy321]

Indian definition for this normally is 2-3 yrs...

Nope the French will build the first squadron. 48 months after contract has been signed. The contract will be signed this FY.

 

[uss]

Dassault Aviation seeks clarity on role of HAL in supply of Rafale fighters to Air Force

Dassault Aviation seeks clarity on role of HAL in supply of Rafale fighters to Air Force | idrw.org

"French firm Dassault Aviation has asked the defence ministry to define the role of Hindustan Aeronautics Limited in the project."
"The French company has told the ministry that if it is given the overall responsibility for the project, it should be given the freedom to decide on the proportion of work to be done by the HAL and private companies in the programme, they said."
"Soon after Dassault was declared as the lowest bidder for the MMRCA (Medium Multi-Role Combat Aircraft) deal pipping EAD's Eurofighter, it signed an MoU with a Reliance Industries Limited company for working together in the security sector. It is currently negotiating the deal with the defence ministry and the IAF."

Can anyone please advice if the above points signals that Dassault wants to give more work share to Private company , in that case

> Does they really believe that RIL(Reliance Industries Limited) would be able to deliver on such a sophisticated aircraft, on which HAL is unable to do
> Does RIL able to absorb such technology without prior knowledge ?
> or they want to just use the Label of RIL & all(most) work will be done in France it self

Any thoughts !!

 

[Armand2REP]

SKA to equip EF Typhoon with French Kit

Likely to launch a comprehensive flight test Eurofighter Typhoon fighter with hanging targeting system manufactured by Thales. November 30 local spotter photographed passing the test at Wharton (UK), the birthplace of aviation at BAE Systems, the aircraft "Typhoon" with French sighting system.
BAE Systems declined to comment, citing a "confidentiality agreement."
As you know, a few months ago, Saudi Arabia signed a contract with the company "Thales" purchase sighting systems to equip its Damocles "Typhoon". At present, the Air Force in Saudi Arabia these systems are equipped aircraft Tornado IDS. The French company also does not want to comment.
Riyadh decided to use French instead of the integrated sight system currently on the "Typhoon" Israeli Litening system development. Use of Damocles is considered along with the Sniper company Lockheed Martin, which, in the end, was rejected.
Taken by November 30 at Wharton, it is clear that the container system is located on the ventral Damocles pylon like Litening.
France is also in talks with Saudi Arabia to supply guided air AASM modular ammunition company Sagem. This weapon system will be fitted in the first place, the aircraft Tornado IDS, but it is possible that they will be armed and "Typhoon".

air et cosmos

 

[Armand2REP]

According to this article, Dassault wants to select the work share as prime contractor. It sounds like they want to limit the role of HAL. After recent reports, I am not surprised.

Dassault Aviation seeks clarity on role of HAL in supply of Rafale fighters to Air Force - TOI Mobile | The Times of India Mobile Site

 

[bhramos]

 

[Drsomnath999]

DEBUNKING OF CHINESE WET DREAMS ABOUT J 10B SUPERIOTY OVER RAFALE

Chinese claims that i quote

I)The J-10B incorporates 1200 T/R AESA, which is larger than the 880 T/R RBE-2,

II)INCREASED COMPOSITES

III)BETTER RAM COATING

IV)DSI

V)136 Kn ENGINE

VI)Mach 2 speed

VII)20300 m service ceiling

I)The J-10B incorporates 1200 T/R AESA, which is larger than the 880 T/R RBE-2,

ans:
well

1st of all there is a lot of uncertanity about whether J10b really poses AESA or PESA .ok lets us assume what NIET claims is
correct that J10b indeed has an AESA radar but still we dont have any accurate infos about it's specification like detection range ,scan rate ,peak power,

but we do get some idea about china's AESA radar from this chinese source that it may be having 1152 T/R modules

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/20110723111055450.gif

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/20110723111055619.gif

http://www.centurychina.com/plaboard/uploads/20110723111055270.gif

AESA radar for J-10B will have 1152 T/R module

well it's didn't signify any thing about it's detection range ,scan rate ,peak power, T/R modules compostion whther GaAs or GaN ??

As the article described, the aesa radar configuration can be changed according to the nose size of the aircraft, for example, different T/R number for J-10 and J-11 .But still a long way to go for china to build an AESA radar of a fighter comparable in technology with US or European standard especially in terms of LPI(low probabilty of intercept) & electronic jamming.

also J 10b radar which we saw in net is a test model of AESA radar not a full production AESA radar which has around 8 IFF
dipole antenna in the main array each having capabilty of handling 2 targets at the same time which means 16 targets simultaneosly(according to WIKIpedia which the chinese members often say a very reliable source )
in comparsiion RBE 2 aesa radar can track upto 40 air targets in look down & look up aspects in all weather under intense electronic environment

meanwhile

rafale though claimed to have 1000 T/R modules but Pics say it has around 880 T/R modules but that doesnt mean J10's aesa radar becomes superior as greater size radar may be powerful but that doesnt mean technologically superior.
Well the quality of /or technology used to built T/R module of an AESA radar is more important than numbers as it should be more reliable .Well Su 30 mki bars radar even if it's a PESA radar is a very powerful radar with long detection range but it is technologically inferior to AESA radar.






advantage of RBE 2 AESA radar
1) SAR (synthetic aperature mode)

2)MMIC (mono lithic microwave integrated circuits )/GaAs (gallium arsenide) technology T/R modules
in future it may be built with GAllium nitride modules with sat com abilty
Thales reveals 'cloud' concept for Rafale radar technologies



3) it creates a 3 dimensional ground map covering wide area forward of the aircraft during low altitude penetration mission

4) It's has much better LPI which is more important in todays aerial combat as todays fighter /Awacs ESM (electronic support
measures) or RWR (radar warning receiver) system are more powerful in detecting radar waves of fighter aircraft exposing it's cover or location in air which can be fatal in aerial combat.


5) It along with spectra system increases rafale's electronic jamming capabilty even further

6) enhanced detection of low observable targets & improved resistance to electronic jamming

7) much better 5th gen System core / COTS for faster computation

Conclusion
U just cant compare the technological experience of china in buiding AESA radar with the french Thales which have decades of experience in building radar starting from Mirage 2000 to rafale rbe radar.If thats was not the case why would have pak airforce officials died to have french avionics in their JF17 in comparision to chinese



II)INCREASED CONCENTRATION OF COMPOSITES

ans:
& thats absolutely B.S
J10b' s composites concentration is no way greater than Rafale infact dassault itself claims rafale's composite concentration is more than 70 %
Optimized airframe

Hexcel company of france which supplies composties to rafale are pioneer in developing composites for aircraft meanwhile god knows what is the standard of chinese composites .????
Hexcel Composites - France
Hexcel.com - Carbon fiber and composites for aerospace, wind energy and industrial







III)BETTER RAM COATING


Ans:
another garbage assumption!!

rafale has much high quality RAM coating than j10 ,and what cheap quality RAM coating china uses we can see from the
pics of J20 when white flecks or patches are visible on plane surface when RAM shed off it's surface.Only J20 looks shiny in
photoshop pics only.

infact RAM coating can be seen in such places in rafale where u dont find in j10b
like external refuelling probe ,


IV)DSI

ANs:
yes 1 innovative thing for J10b
DSI has an advantage in performance & some aspects in stealth as it removes the gap present in between the diverter blade
& fuselarge of the plane.but to be fair enough it has no major role in combat.

But some analyst says DSI cant withstand mach 2+ Speeds which is yet to be proven ???? optimum speed for DSI is around
MACh 1.6-1.7 like that we see in jf 17 & F-35 So it needs to be seen can J10b achieve mach 2+ speed which J10A claims to have



V)136 Kn ENGINE

ans:
WS 10A 132 Kn engine right from the very beginnning has been under lot of scrutiny though chinese are determined to induct it no matter how good or bad it performs.Though WS 10b has been boasting of 136 Kn along with TVC which is still in development .Yes they have inducted WS 10a engines in J11b & even j-15 is going to have those engines ,but those are twin engine fighters
meanwhile inducting a single INDIGENIOUS engine fighter hasnt been so easy for chinese may be inducting a twin engine fighter with indigeniuos engines is more safer & reliable in comparision to a single indigenous engine fighter.Well same goes for WS 13engines i think for Jf17 also .& that too rumours ofchinese buying russian engines keep on popping in the media or internet every now & then .




infact serious misconception exists in the mind of our chinese friends about WS 10A 136kn advantage over Scnema M88 3 engine

u should understand thrust to weight ratio of plane is more important than thrust of engine of a plane

which rafale Thrust/weight ratio : 1.10 (100% fuel, 2 EM A2A missile, 2 IR A2A missile) excels in comparision to
J10b Thrust/weight ratio : 0.96 (with AL-31); 1.017 (with WS-10A) thaanks to it's twin engines fighter


other advantages of Rafale's M88 3 /M88 eco engines

1) it can supercruise but WS 10A no

2) it has far less IR signature than WS 10A thanks to it's 2 cooling channels

3) it's better engine TBO

4) scenema FADEC is much superior to WS 10a




VI)Mach 2 speed

Ans:
another funny ideology i think one should understand that plane cannot attain mach 2 speed every time if it does that it would be through help of after burner the plane would ran out of entire fuel stored in it & it would increase plane's IR
signature a lot which would be visible by enemy' IRST like rafale's FSO which is claimed to be capable of detecting IR signatures of plane from 120km .

well it is much better to have supercruise planes which doent need after burners to maintain speed which rafale has .If thats
the case then Mirage 2000 which has a top speed well above mach2+ would be superior to F-35 which has mach 1.7 as top speed

VII)20300 m service ceiling

ANS:
i would rather say it's vintage aerial combat ideology our chinese friends beleive that having a faster plane with higher ceiling would help them to release BVR missiles at such height which would give their BVR missiles more kinetic energy with more range & they would destroy rafale with it's SD 10 A or B misssiles at much longer range & rafale pilots would be sitting ducks & would not be having any self protection suite like SPECTRA in order to save their A$$es .LOOLLZ


well it's true that indeed BVR missiles range increase at high altitudes & with increased speed but it doent increase it's
kill probabilty of BVraam missile . Infact Kill probabilty of a missile depends upon the quality of seeker(IR or EM) of missile & abilty of ECM of enemy target plane rather than range of a missile.Meanwhile Rafale has one of the most deadliest

BVRAAM of this planet the Meteor worlds 1st ramjet powered missile having one of the largest No escape zone (NEZ)
&
MICA IR
bvaam missile which is one of longest IR missile availabe right now.

& for self protection against chinese missiles rafale has SPECTRA electronic warfare suite which i hope doent need introduction as everyone knows about it's capabilty

 

[Drsomnath999]

Dassault Rafale Solo Display 36th International Sanicole Airshow 2012
[video=vimeo;50506313]http://vimeo.com/50506313[/video]


Dassault Rafale Solo Display 36th International Sanicole Airshow 2012 on Vimeo

 

[Armand2REP]

The paint on J-20 probably isn't even RAM. It is just a prototype airframe. Testing that would come later.

 

[Drsomnath999]

an old article but very interesting

Thales reveals 'cloud' concept for Rafale radar technologies

Thales has revealed the first details of its new technology roadmap for the Dassault Rafale's radar and electronic warfare systems, which it believes could create opportunities to equip several other aircraft types over the next 20 years.

The new concept allows for the insertion of future technologies, such as gallium nitride transmit/receive modules, by using a so-called "cloud" architecture, says Pierre-Yves Chaltiel, head of electronic combat systems for Thales Airborne Systems.

Likely to be available within the next several years, the new T/R modules would enable Thales to reduce the depth of the antenna on the Rafale's RBE2 active electronically scanned array radar. Within a period of 10-12 years, it could also allow additional sensors to be embedded elsewhere within an aircraft's structure to enhance its overall sensor coverage.

The advance would also deliver increases in processing power, bandwidth capability and electronic counter-countermeasures characteristics, Thales claims.

For the Rafale, Chaltiel says a key benefit of the "cloud" concept would be to allow technologies to be added without having to re-qualify all the software used in the fighter's radar and Spectra EW packages. "The key is the systems knowledge - the processing power coupled with the radar and overall aircraft integration," he says.

The same technology could also be adopted for use by maritime patrol aircraft and airborne early warning platforms, or even offered as part of future mid-life upgrades for the Rafale, Eurofighter Typhoon and Saab Gripen under a possible co-operation agreement with other European radar manufacturers, Chaltiel believes. "Thales is ready and open for co-operation," he says.

French industry and the nation's DGA defence procurement agency have made combined investments worth over €1 billion ($1.2 billion) in sensor development for the Rafale over the last decade or so, and Chaltiel confirms that the nation is "already working on advanced technology demonstrators for the future".

Meanwhile, Thales will in August deliver the first of three production-standard AESA RBE2 arrays to the defence ministry to support test activities with the Rafale. The new sensor will enter squadron service in 2012 as part of France's December 2009 order for a fourth tranche of 60 Rafales.

"The system is far different, in range and capacity of intercept in a multi-threat environment," Chaltiel says.

Thales reveals 'cloud' concept for Rafale radar technologies


COURTESY: MR DARE

THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE

 

[Drsomnath999]

6 GBU, 3 Mica:

(Source: Air&Cosmos special edition)

COURTESY:OLYBRIUS
THANK U FOR THE PICS MATE

 

[wild goose]

Manufacturing Details Stall Franco-Indian MMCRA Negotiations | Aviation International News

More than 10 months after India chose the French Rafale to meet its $15 billion medium multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) requirement, contract negotiations are mired in issues related to offsets, the transfer of technology and the role of Hindustan Aeronautics (HAL). The Press Trust of India quoted industry sources as saying that Dassault has requested from the Indian Ministry of Defence the freedom to decide the proportion of work to be done by HAL, versus private Indian companies. Last February, Dassault signed an MoU with Reliance Industry, India's largest private-sector company, for collaboration in manufacturing.

Courtesy: Olybrius-MP.net

 

[SajeevJino]

 

[Drsomnath999]

Laser guided Hammer air-to-ground weapon system qualified against moving targets at sea, on land

On December 12, 2012, French defense procurement agency DGA successfully carried out the last qualification firing test of the AASM modular air-to-ground missile developed and produced by Sagem (Safran), in its laser terminal guidance version (NATO designation: SBU-54 Hammer). This third and final test qualifies the laser guided version of AASM weapon system and provides the French Navy and Air Force with a new stand off anti-ship capability.
...
The December 12th test took place on the DGA missile tests site of Biscarrosse. The target was an all-terrain vehicle. Remotely piloted, it was illuminated by the aircraft's Damocles pod during the final seconds of the AASM's flight. The vehicle was traveling at different speed, reaching 50 km/h at the time of impact, when it was more than 15 km from the Rafale. The weapon was launched from the aircraft at an extreme off-axis angle of 90° and hit the target at an oblique angle.
...
For Harmattan operation, French side of NATO's Unified Protector operation in Libya as part of the UN's 1973 resolution, the French Air Force and Navy carried out 225 launches of AASM Hammer missiles from Rafale fighters (Defense Committee of the French National Assembly, report of October 4, 2011 – testimony of the Ministry of Defense), using the INS / GPS and INS / GPS / Infrared guidance versions.

Laser guided AASM Hammer air-to-ground weapon system qualified against moving targets at sea, on land