Know Your 'Rafale'

Armand2REP

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I dont think Russia has given crystal bade technology.
I don't think so either. If they did, Kaveri wouldn't have blade cracking. MKI ToT includes fabs, fasteners and general maintenance technology. Basically everything needed to build the frame and keep the engines running until overhaul. Rafale deal includes all that as well as AESA and SCB tech.
 

p2prada

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I dont think Russia has given crystal bade technology.
They did transfer Single crystal blades a long time ago.

I don't think so either. If they did, Kaveri wouldn't have blade cracking. MKI ToT includes fabs, fasteners and general maintenance technology. Basically everything needed to build the frame and keep the engines running until overhaul. Rafale deal includes all that as well as AESA and SCB tech.
The MKI program had nothing to do with LCA. GTRE will not get funds if they tried copy pasting AL-31's SCBs. They wanted to do it alone. Anyway if they did want to use AL-31 technology on the Kaveri then they would have wanted ToT back in 1989 when the Kaveri program started, not after it was delinked from LCA.

Rafale deal ToT won't even come close to MKI's "Deep" ToT. It is not expected to anyway and this was mentioned by IAF officials. A 60% ToT is expected on radar from Thales, but it is supposedly too much according to all except Russia and Sweden(Italy). This info was released in 2009.

On the other hand the Americans will be extremely stingy on ToT.
 

Armand2REP

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They did transfer Single crystal blades a long time ago.
If they did then the tech would have been used in Kaveri.

The MKI program had nothing to do with LCA. GTRE will not get funds if they tried copy pasting AL-31's SCBs. They wanted to do it alone. Anyway if they did want to use AL-31 technology on the Kaveri then they would have wanted ToT back in 1989 when the Kaveri program started, not after it was delinked from LCA.
It isn't a matter of copy/paste. It is a production technology that is applicable across many spectrums. You either have the tech or you don't. Clearly they never got it from Russia.

Rafale deal ToT won't even come close to MKI's "Deep" ToT. It is not expected to anyway and this was mentioned by IAF officials. A 60% ToT is expected on radar from Thales, but it is supposedly too much according to all except Russia and Sweden(Italy). This info was released in 2009.
How much ToT did India get from NIIP? :laugh:

On the other hand the Americans will be extremely stingy on ToT.
How much ToT did India get for P8I or C-17? :rofl:
 

p2prada

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If they did then the tech would have been used in Kaveri.
It isn't a matter of copy/paste. It is a production technology that is applicable across many spectrums. You either have the tech or you don't. Clearly they never got it from Russia.
Armand, I thought you knew how economics and IP works. Do I have to teach it to you? It is clear you have no idea how intellectual property rights work. You are also not aware that engine ToT for MKI was transferred well after Kaveri was already developed and already failed. I think it was in 2005 or 2006.

No, we do not reverse engineer. I am pretty sure you already know that. We reverse engineer some things, but not something as complex as SCBs and such.

The AL-31 is a massive engine, re-engineering the SCBs to fit into Kaveri will not be easy. Other than that even though there was ToT, the tools used to make the SCB are AL-31 specific and cannot be reproduced for our own R&D either. It will take a long time and anyway the engine was already obsolete by 2007 because of the 117S. So, it made more sense to go for a JV for a more modern engine and be on par with the west rather than get stuck 10 years behind Russia.

If the choice was between the 80s design AL-31F or the M88-3(maybe something more advanced as mentioned by IAF), any monkey will tell you the latter is the better option.

AL-31FP SCB was transferred and even the German ambassador knows. It is open source info.

How much ToT did India get from NIIP? :laugh:
Everything. The Bars was exclusively made for India. Pretty much an Indian funded radar, like the K-100. I have no reason to believe ToT will be denied in such circumstances.

During MRCA, Phazatron did say they have no issues with the RFP for ToT of the radar, all other competitors had issues though.

The Russians even allowed us to modify the airframe by ourselves for Brahmos.

How much ToT did India get for P8I or C-17? :rofl:
Those were FMS purchases for only a few units. If we purchased hundreds like USAF or USN does, then we would have asked for a ToT agreement included. There is no economic sense in buying 10 or 20 transports and then asking for ToT by paying another $2Billion, especially when half the stuff on it has been stripped off due to some agreement or the other.

That's why we have a JV with Russia for medium transport aircraft.

The Israelis had no issues transferring everything related to ground based AESA radars back in 2002.

French and Americans are lacking in the ToT department. French ToT will be seen after we know what is to be transferred in radar, other electronics and engines.
 

Sridhar

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India will not Refloat MMRCA Tender : Official
Published August 25, 2012 | By admin

SOURCE: IDRW NEWS NETWORK

Reacting to the Recent Media reports in Russia Media that India might Re-float MMRCA Tender , a Senior Serving Air force official told idrw.org that " There has been no ill-regulatories that has been found in selection Process of the L1 Bidder and winner of the Tender and there is no question of re-tender "

Adding fuel to the fire to the recent Russian media reports was when German minister claimed MMRCA tender is still not a closed chapter . leading to speculation in the defence circle , but one sources close to idrw.org have told us that talks are progressing well with French aircraft manufacturer Dassault and contract will be signed within next six months period and MOD and IAF are in same page on this matter .

Another reputed source told idrw.org that "There has been no backdoor level talks going on with any losing competitor " and went on to remind us that Russian offer of Mig-35 had failed in Technical evaluation level and failed miserably to be even considered as an option if talks with Dassault fails for any reason. next choice will be European EADS ( Eurofighter ) but we are not talking to them on this matter yet .

Dassault already completed talks with possible Indian suppliers to meet the offset requirements set by the GOI, and after the contract is signed Indian air force will be sending batches of fighter Pilots to France for Training and many of the pilots will come from Mirage 2000H squadron fleet to reduce conversion training Period . if contract is signed accordingly then the first Rafale is expected in end of 2014 .

India will not Refloat MMRCA Tender : Official | idrw.org
 

p2prada

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Russian offer of Mig-35 had failed in Technical evaluation level and failed miserably to be even considered as an option...

:pound:
 

Kunal Biswas

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Russian offer of Mig-35 had failed in Technical evaluation level and failed miserably to be even considered as an option...
MOD or even IAF official wouldn't use such words, Journalist words to be precious..
 

A chauhan

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These delays forces me to smell corruption through bribe and 'commission' in all this :( after all UPA govt has a reputation.
 

agentperry

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I dont think Russia has given crystal bade technology.
your guess is no match to available facts all over the internet and press release. su-30mki are made from raw material within india. russia provided everything to domesticate su-30mki
 

agentperry

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If they did then the tech would have been used in Kaveri.



It isn't a matter of copy/paste. It is a production technology that is applicable across many spectrums. You either have the tech or you don't. Clearly they never got it from Russia.



How much ToT did India get from NIIP? :laugh:



How much ToT did India get for P8I or C-17? :rofl:
i would like to reply to it by smply saying that indian HAL manufacture dornier and honeywell engine on license that too from scratch. they possess technology. its with them but still nothing like copy of honeywell or of dornier is in india.
similarly the case is with su-30mki crystal blade technology.
they can copy or not is left over to them. they shold copy or not is still not the question. do they have plans or not is again not in my knowledge but i do have some examples to assert that it wont happen.
 

Rahul92

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Well employment aside i want french to develop most of these because they can be inducted more fast
 

Drsomnath999

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Nation Shield journal , August 2012:


COURTESY: OLYBRIOUS
THANK U FOR THE INFO MATE
 
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p2prada

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TOT was a sticky point with the US planes now French turned around won't
give TOT why this is not a sticky point now??
The article with the Russian commentator could very well have been false. The German commentator only said the deal is still on because the contract has not yet been signed. Nothing much to read there. Media is sensationalizing petty information.
 

just4nikhilesh

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i think finaly we go for mig 35 and this time russian offer 50 mill per and prove that they are our good friend
 

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