Know Your 'Rafale'

[lcatejas]

Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender
The Hindu : News / International : Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender

Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender
Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender - India News - IBNLive

Hope the govt. not in mood to wait for another decade...

 

[arya]

yes we can play with nation like a ball

and when china will attack on us we will hide our face ??

 

[sob]

Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender
The Hindu : News / International : Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender

Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender
Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender - India News - IBNLive

What is St.Anthony upto. We will be the laughing stock of the whole world. We can't take a decision for an aircraft in 15 years. Come on Raksha Mantri get on with your job.

 

[vishwaprasad]

I think there is nothing to worry about. This russian deputy director has habit of talking BS. I remember the same person had some 2-3 months back said that India will cancel Rafale deal due to high price and Indian economy is in trouble so they wont be able to afford euro birds and MIG-35 will enter back in competition. I am not able to find that source right now but will definitely try.

How this russian deputy director knows that India and France have failed to reach the agreement? jealousy at its best nothing else. India will go ahead with Rafale deal.

 

[p2prada]

Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender
The Hindu : News / International : Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender

Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender
Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender - India News - IBNLive

These things happen always. Not a big deal. Rafale deal will continue crossing all hurdles and the IAF will ensure it does.

 

[Zebra]

Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender
The Hindu : News / International : Russia hopes India will refloat MMRCA tender

Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender
Russia hints India could refloat MMRCA tender - India News - IBNLive

very good then.

I am for........ SH+ Gripen E/F C1.

 

[devil510]

very good then.

I am for........ SH+ Gripen E/F C1.

i think Gripen is equal to Tejas we should go for Eurofighter or Rafael don't even think about Russians and American in this deal.
Americans are expensive and remember their checks we have gotten our navy disrespected already i don't trust Russian tech completely with mig21 crash rates and everything

 

[Ganesh2691]

$10bn Rafale deal not final yet: German leader

NEW DELHI: While not making any noise about India's decision to prefer the French Rafale fighter over Eurofighter Typhoon, Germany is still trying to negotiate with India for the over $10 billion medium-range multi-role combat aircraft (MMRCA) deal. Germany is one of the key nations behind the European consortium which has designed the Typhoon.

The deputy chief of the ruling CDU-led coalition's parliamentary committee in Bundestag (lower house of Parliament) for foreign and defence affairs, Andreas Schockenhoff, told TOI on Wednesday that the last word had not yet been heard on the MMRCA deal.

India and France are currently having "exclusive" talks over pricing and other issues for the 126-aircraft deal and the defence ministry maintains that there is no question of reviewing the decision to enter into negotiations with Rafale manufacturer Dassault Aviation.

"There have been discussions between German and Indian officials and I can say that this is not a closed book yet,'' said Schockenoff, a close aide of Chancellor Angela Merkel, who is in India on a four-day visit.

"As far as I know, there is not yet a commercial order committed by the Indian government. The Eurofighter manufacturers are working again on the offer and this is a subject of negotiations between the European consortium and the Indian government,'' he added.

Schockenhoff met senior defence ministry officials, including minister of state for defence Pallam Raju, but said he had not raised the issue during his visit to India.

Interestingly, the comments by Schockenhoff come close on the heels of remarks by a Russian government spokesperson who said India was likely to refloat the tender as negotiations between India and France had failed. Russia's MiG-35 fighter jet too was part of the bid but lost in the preliminary stages.

Unlike as in the UK, another country associated with the Eurofighter where the reaction to India's decision bordered on the wild, the initial reaction in Germany was restrained. The government did say though that exclusive talks don't necessarily lead to actual sale.

The Eurofighter was said to have lost out to Rafale because of cost and expensive maintenance issues and also because of Rafale's similarities to the French Mirage 2000 fighters being used by the IAF.

$10bn Rafale deal not final yet: German leader - The Times of India

 

[Drsomnath999]

What French nuclear missile for 2035?

The subject is sensitive, and the slightest disclosure generally arouses the ire of the Directorate General of Armaments (DGA). However, a recent report by the Defence Committee of the Senate on the future of the French nuclear forces some elements official book about the studies underway to replace the ramjet missile ASMP-A, developed by MBDA and carried by the Mirage 2000N and Rafale B Strategic Air Forces (SAF) and the Rafale M naval nuclear force (Fanu).

The document states that two lines of research are pursued in parallel by ONERA and MBDA. The first is a "ramjet missile which will double the current performance of the ASMP-A", which is currently being studied under a PEA called Camosis. The document adds that this project builds on the work already done by ONERA under the research program in March. This was a study of a cell called "lenticular", with a ramjet Mach 4/5 powered by a fuel high density boron, and needed to increase the cruising speed and altitude maximum of the craft relative to a missile ASMP class.

Artist's concept of Mars, after a presentation of the ONERA



The other line of research, report senators, provides a super ramjet supersonic missile, studied under the PEA Prometheus, "with flight test demonstrator LEA in 2014-2015," added the parliamentarians. This project would quadruple the current performance of the ASMP-A, with a maximum speed of about Mach 7 or Mach 8.
These two research programs are driven by the DGA Horus management unit in charge of missile projects air-ground nuclear, "special transport" but also strategic communications. As such, the Senate report also reveals that the current system Syderec System (Last Resort), recently relocated to Avord, to be replaced by 2020.
The senators added that to ensure the overall coherence of the French deterrent, the architecture of the successor of the ASMP-A should be decided in 2016, for possible commissioning in 2035. To date, approximately 10% of upstream research in the nuclear field are devoted to air-to-ground, against 40% for ballistic missiles and for both SSBNs and nuclear propulsion.

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[devil510]

Can we drop HAL and select some private companies like TATA, Mahindra etc ?

private players are not always good idea or completely good idea

 

[Armand2REP]

Talks on only with French company Dassault Aviation for 126 Rafale aircraft: Government

NEW DELHI: The Defence Ministry today said it was talking only to the French Dassault Aviation for procuring 126 Rafale aircraft under a multi-billion dollar tender.

"We are not talking to anyone except Dassault Aviation whose Rafale aircraft has been selected as the lowest bidder in the multi-billion dollar contract," Defence Ministry sources said here.

The Ministry was responding to reported claims made by German and Russian officials that India was discussing the contract with them and there was a possibility of the project being retendered.

There have been questions earlier after which Defence Minister A K Antony decided to review the process to determine the lowest bidder in the deal bagged by French Rafale after defeating European Eurofighter.

Defence Ministry has also resumed the process of negotiating the price of the 126 aircraft with French Dassault Aviation after it was halted briefly following objections from former MP Mysura Reddy.

Talks on only with French company Dassault Aviation for 126 Rafale aircraft: Government - Economic Times

 

[Drsomnath999]

well the russians & germans are unnecessary creating confusion & panic in media to sully the result of this MMRCA deal .

 

[vishwaprasad]

i think Gripen is equal to Tejas we should go for Eurofighter or Rafael don't even think about Russians and American in this deal.
Americans are expensive and remember their checks we have gotten our navy disrespected already i don't trust Russian tech completely with mig21 crash rates and everything

My friend no offense to our own industry but Gripen will actually own Tejas if both goes to war against each other TODAY

 

[Drsomnath999]

Because of the technological complexity of the fighter, the majority of the workload in the production of 126 fighter jets to India should be provided by French companies.
Negotiations continue to go well between teams Dassault Aviation and the Department of Defense Indian to reach an agreement.
The two partners have not yet converted into a commercial contract and the selection of the Rafale French manufacturer took place in February as the exclusive partner for the acquisition of 126 fighters. Dassault Aviation, is reassuring on the progress of negotiations, highlighting the complexity technical, commercial, legal negotiations of this type.
Moreover, little industrial filter sharing between the two countries. Only certainty: 18 aircraft will be assembled in the factory Dassault Merignac, Gironde and the remaining 108 in India . However, sources indicate that the French division of labor remain very much in favor of French, even believing that they would keep well over 50% of the associated production of the early years of the future contract. And not on the whole partnership, as it had been previously written in this article.
That would be good news for the supply chain of a Franco-French Rafale: the manufacturer does indeed appeal almost exclusively to French companies for the production of its combat aircraft. In total, 500 companies participating countries mobilizing about 7,000 jobs.

THE OBSTACLE OF TECHNOLOGICAL COMPLEXITY
Several factors could explain this division favorable to French industrialists while the original tender issued by New Delhi included industrial offsets amounting to 50% of the contract value as well as technology transfer.

First, as for commercial aircraft of type Boeing or Airbus , assembling a fighter is only a modest fraction of the value of the unit, about 15% according to some experts.

Second Indian companies are far from mastering the technology to produce complex electronic equipment Rafale. Their contribution could therefore be quite limited at first, and organize around elements of the fuselage, the wings, the canopy ... Especially as technology transfer will be gradual. Rather than a comprehensive agreement on all the apparatus, the cooperation will by signing multiple licensing agreements for each aircraft equipment. As to produce sub-critical assemblies of the device as the radar antenna active electronics of Thales , the mastery of these skills appears remote.

Third, by joining with France and military aircraft manufacturer, the Indian government would seek to benefit from expertise to reorganize its military aircraft industry.
Discussion points between the Indian and French partners is no lack. What augur yet long months of negotiations before signing the final contract.

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well french would definitely want to produce more jets from their own land to create more jobs

 

[blank_quest]

first of all India should start manufacturing electronic components itself .. we don't even have a decent electronic manufacturing Industry..

 

[Armand2REP]

It is the same as it was for MKI. At least half of HALs assembly will be knock-down kits. Considering the complexity of components, even more will have to be made in France.

 

[SajeevJino]

well french would definitely want to produce more jets from their own land to create more jobs

In India mostly 90% of them educated...Our governments aim is to be Let in India everyone being educated and they will achieved this goal ...

But no one says We will provide job for Every educated peoples....Atleast half a peoples..no

Still trying for Job..
Voice from my feel..

 

[p2prada]

Nevertheless this is not an official statement. It is just somebody's opinion.

It all depends on what kind of contract HAL, IAF and Dassault reach. Engine and airframe aren't the big problem here. The GTRE-Snecma JV will ensure the entire engine is made in India. Airframe with all the so called Robotics won't be as complex as these guys are trying to convey.

Thales would be a different ballgame. Maybe Indian electronics companies can look at the bigger picture and start investing more in order to move French electronics base to India for IAF Rafales.

But all of this can only be done over a few years and not overnight. So, the French industry can be expected to fulfill part of the contract beyond the initial 18 numbers.

Armand, the MKI contract was for a different need and for different times. The same numbers logic may not apply here.

 

[Drsomnath999]

It is the same as it was for MKI. At least half of HALs assembly will be knock-down kits. Considering the complexity of components, even more will have to be made in France.

well very premature to say anything like that as MKI .but complete ToT is a must for MMRCA deal ,lets see how india absorbs those ToT & what amount of ToT would french give to India .

but the major headache for india is can HAL manage so much workload & deliver in time.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

funny how terms always change after the deal is sealed.