Know Your 'Rafale'

Drsomnath999

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FROM AIR & COSMOS MAGAZINE MAR 2012


Who could work with Dassault ?
Air & Cosmos , march 9

To fulfill the conditions of the MoD in matter of offsets, Dassault Aviation will not only work with large state firms like HALand Bharat Electronics, the champion of Indian radars. The MoD wants also to promote the industrial private sector. Its agency for offsets, the Dofa, has referenced fifty players capable of producing equipment or systems for the Indian Rafale. These include Bharat Heavy Electricals, a diversified group which manufactures flight simulators and avionics, Larsen & Toubro (sensors, radars ...), Samtel (cockpit equipment, navigation), the latter being a partner of Thales for renovation of the Indian Mirage 2000 through a JV. There are also Alpha-ITL Electro Optics and Memory Electronics, which manufactures optronic equipment, or groups not necessarily specialists in matter of defense, like Reliance (who just signed an agreement with Dassault), Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Power. The latter has created a division in combat systems and data link. Without forgetting ECIL, which manufactures joysticks and black boxes, or Precision Electronics, specialist in cabling.
In contrast, the Dofa list has few industrial specialized in aerostructures: there is Aurora Integrated Systems and Infra Polytec. Logically, this area is the prerogative of HAL.
Captured and google translated from A&C 2303, page 13


Indian Rafale: how Dassault is preparing:
Air & Cosmos , March 9

The manufacturer has six to eight months to prove it can meet the requirements of the Indian authorities in matter of offsets and technology transfers. A short delay , especially as the local industry has still many gaps to fill.

There was contained joy, last January 31, when the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has announced the selection of the Rafale to equip the Indian Air Force with 126 multimission fighters. The famous MMRCA contract. But the next day, gravity took over at St. Cloud, headquarters of Dassault Aviation. And for good reason. If the manufacturer of the Rafale and its partners Thales and Safran, want to sign a contract in good and due form, they must prove that they can transfer to the Indian industry 50% of this contract, which would amount between 12 and 15 billion dollars according to various estimations. So, 6 to 7 billion in offsets and technology transfer to find before next fall! This is a record, commensurate to the contract. Only the first 18 Rafale will be built in France. The following 108 should be built by the Indian aeronautic's national champion, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), a state corporation. Dassault must not miss the boat. "It's a big reference for French industry and for us, it will represent about 20 million euros in turnover by plane, "emphasizes Jean-Paul Herteman, CEO of Safran, during the presentation of the results of the group, last February 23.

The Indians landed at Dassault.

But the Indians are in a hurry. The MoD announced its intention to sign a definitive contract eight months after the annoucement around September-October. " Since the beginning of February, Indians have sent their best staff in St. Cloud, dozens of brilliant graduates to form working groups with Dassault teams "said a source familiar with the matter. On the French manufacturer side, it is logically Eric Trappier, Dassault director for international affairs, the man of all the negotiations when it comes to export the Rafale , which took things in hand, in conjunction with the technical direction and the management of industrial affairs.
Concurrently, an ad hoc committee will coordinate and centralize the Franco-Indian work , including members like Jean-Marc Gasparini, head of the Rafale program, and representatives of Thales and Safran. On the Indian side, HAL will be the main interlocutor of Dassault.
Naturally, the idea is not to formalize all the offset volume in the smallest details. It would be an impossible mission in such a short time. In this preliminary phase, HAL and Dassault will list all the fields, module per module, where technology transfers are possible, and will establish priorities and a timetable. Then they will give everything a value [price] and sign partnerships with Indian companies. The aircraft and its 30,000 main components will be dissected to identify transferable parts, subassemblies and equipment : from elements of the fuselage to the landing gear, through pipes or embedded systems.
There is plenty to do , the French fighter aircraft contains for example 25 kilometers of cabling and 300,000 rivets! The goal, in a first step, is to define compensation directly related to the Rafale program. Indirect offsets will come later. Concurrently, Dassault will turn on its supply chain: probably not all of the 500 concerned companies, but rather the 250 to 300 most important . "We have not yet been approached by Dassault, but we expect it. This is to Dassault to conduct these first discussions," said Francois Bertrand, president of the board of Latecoere, which manufactures the high back part of the Rafale.

Engineering processes.

Similarly, the manufacturer of St. Cloud will value all the industrial operations hidden but no less strategic in manufacturing an airplane: Process engineering, CAD, referentials of methods ... Finally, and this is not the smallest task to do for the working groups, they will set the price of licenses to be paid by Indian companies selected to have the right to manufacture a particular equipment. On the side of New Delhi, an actor will play an important role: The Defence Offset Facilitation Agency (DOFA). Created in 2006, this organization ,depending of the MoD, plays the role of interface between military, Indian industrialists and foreign suppliers.
[...]








COURTESY: OLYBRIUS
THANK U MATE FOR INFO & MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR TRANSLATION :lol:
 

Drsomnath999

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FROM AIR & COSMOS MAGAZINE MAR 2012


Who could work with Dassault ?
Air & Cosmos , march 9

To fulfill the conditions of the MoD in matter of offsets, Dassault Aviation will not only work with large state firms like HALand Bharat Electronics, the champion of Indian radars. The MoD wants also to promote the industrial private sector. Its agency for offsets, the Dofa, has referenced fifty players capable of producing equipment or systems for the Indian Rafale. These include Bharat Heavy Electricals, a diversified group which manufactures flight simulators and avionics, Larsen & Toubro (sensors, radars ...), Samtel (cockpit equipment, navigation), the latter being a partner of Thales for renovation of the Indian Mirage 2000 through a JV. There are also Alpha-ITL Electro Optics and Memory Electronics, which manufactures optronic equipment, or groups not necessarily specialists in matter of defense, like Reliance (who just signed an agreement with Dassault), Mahindra & Mahindra and Tata Power. The latter has created a division in combat systems and data link. Without forgetting ECIL, which manufactures joysticks and black boxes, or Precision Electronics, specialist in cabling.
In contrast, the Dofa list has few industrial specialized in aerostructures: there is Aurora Integrated Systems and Infra Polytec. Logically, this area is the prerogative of HAL.
Captured and google translated from A&C 2303, page 13


Indian Rafale: how Dassault is preparing:
Air & Cosmos , March 9

The manufacturer has six to eight months to prove it can meet the requirements of the Indian authorities in matter of offsets and technology transfers. A short delay , especially as the local industry has still many gaps to fill.

There was contained joy, last January 31, when the Indian Ministry of Defence (MoD) has announced the selection of the Rafale to equip the Indian Air Force with 126 multimission fighters. The famous MMRCA contract. But the next day, gravity took over at St. Cloud, headquarters of Dassault Aviation. And for good reason. If the manufacturer of the Rafale and its partners Thales and Safran, want to sign a contract in good and due form, they must prove that they can transfer to the Indian industry 50% of this contract, which would amount between 12 and 15 billion dollars according to various estimations. So, 6 to 7 billion in offsets and technology transfer to find before next fall! This is a record, commensurate to the contract. Only the first 18 Rafale will be built in France. The following 108 should be built by the Indian aeronautic's national champion, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL), a state corporation. Dassault must not miss the boat. "It's a big reference for French industry and for us, it will represent about 20 million euros in turnover by plane, "emphasizes Jean-Paul Herteman, CEO of Safran, during the presentation of the results of the group, last February 23.

The Indians landed at Dassault.

But the Indians are in a hurry. The MoD announced its intention to sign a definitive contract eight months after the annoucement around September-October. " Since the beginning of February, Indians have sent their best staff in St. Cloud, dozens of brilliant graduates to form working groups with Dassault teams "said a source familiar with the matter. On the French manufacturer side, it is logically Eric Trappier, Dassault director for international affairs, the man of all the negotiations when it comes to export the Rafale , which took things in hand, in conjunction with the technical direction and the management of industrial affairs.
Concurrently, an ad hoc committee will coordinate and centralize the Franco-Indian work , including members like Jean-Marc Gasparini, head of the Rafale program, and representatives of Thales and Safran. On the Indian side, HAL will be the main interlocutor of Dassault.
Naturally, the idea is not to formalize all the offset volume in the smallest details. It would be an impossible mission in such a short time. In this preliminary phase, HAL and Dassault will list all the fields, module per module, where technology transfers are possible, and will establish priorities and a timetable. Then they will give everything a value [price] and sign partnerships with Indian companies. The aircraft and its 30,000 main components will be dissected to identify transferable parts, subassemblies and equipment : from elements of the fuselage to the landing gear, through pipes or embedded systems.
There is plenty to do , the French fighter aircraft contains for example 25 kilometers of cabling and 300,000 rivets! The goal, in a first step, is to define compensation directly related to the Rafale program. Indirect offsets will come later. Concurrently, Dassault will turn on its supply chain: probably not all of the 500 concerned companies, but rather the 250 to 300 most important . "We have not yet been approached by Dassault, but we expect it. This is to Dassault to conduct these first discussions," said Francois Bertrand, president of the board of Latecoere, which manufactures the high back part of the Rafale.

Engineering processes.

Similarly, the manufacturer of St. Cloud will value all the industrial operations hidden but no less strategic in manufacturing an airplane: Process engineering, CAD, referentials of methods ... Finally, and this is not the smallest task to do for the working groups, they will set the price of licenses to be paid by Indian companies selected to have the right to manufacture a particular equipment. On the side of New Delhi, an actor will play an important role: The Defence Offset Facilitation Agency (DOFA). Created in 2006, this organization ,depending of the MoD, plays the role of interface between military, Indian industrialists and foreign suppliers.
[...]








COURTESY: OLYBRIUS
THANK U MATE FOR INFO & MOST IMPORTANTLY FOR TRANSLATION
:lol:
 

Neil

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Eurofighter's price lowered to win India contract?

Britain's BAE Systems is reported to be preparing a fresh bid which may include cutting down the prices for the world's biggest fighter jet order despite India's rejection of its Eurofighter Typhoon in favour of France's Dassault Rafale.

India chose the French fighter in January in a deal worth nearly 13 billion pounds, for 126 aircraft. India's decision had disappointed many in Britain, including Prime Minister David Cameron. In a report without mentioning the source of information, The Mail today said: "BAE believes that when India scrutinises the Rafale and assesses the French submission, it will realise the Eurofighter is a superior aircraft that will be cheaper overall".
"If the Indians are willing to look again at the Eurofighter and there are indications that is happening, a revised bid will be ready for them," it added.

"BAE has even come up with designs for a marine version of the Eurofighter in case the Indians want to fly it from aircraft carriers," the report said.

The report said that Ian King, BAE chief executive, had not ruled out reducing the price of the Typhoon.

"The Eurofighter, which is built in partnership with the German and Spanish arms of defence giant EADS and Italy's Finmeccanica, lost out because it was about 3.5 million pounds a plane more expensive than the Rafale", the report said.

"And the French, according to the Indians, offered better after-deals, including technology upgrades and the latest weaponry," it added.

There were earlier suggestions that Britain's aid to India was partly designed to help win the major contract, which has since been denied.



Eurofighter's price lowered to win India contract? | idrw.org


the great MMRCA game just gets stretched further....damn...!!
 

sob

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DRDO chief goes on a spin in the Gripen, what is happening on this deal. It is hight time, we should sew this deal close. The longer this deal is left hanging there will more incentive for mischief mongers to muddy the waters.
 

SPIEZ

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DRDO chief goes on a spin in the Gripen, what is happening on this deal. It is hight time, we should sew this deal close. The longer this deal is left hanging there will more incentive for mischief mongers to muddy the waters.
The longer the deal goes, there is little mischief that can occur.
We must first take into consideration all our needs,like development of our air crafts and technology, before buying such an aircraft. It's not like the Paks have a range of sophisticated air crafts that we can't defend and the Chinese we can with our existing fleet.
 

p2prada

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DRDO chief goes on a spin in the Gripen, what is happening on this deal. It is hight time, we should sew this deal close. The longer this deal is left hanging there will more incentive for mischief mongers to muddy the waters.
Sea Gripen is on offer for the IN deal of 72-80 aircraft. Maybe the DRDO chief was looking for tech partners for AMCA. Who knows?

Maybe it was just a ride.
 

Archer

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DRDO chief goes on a spin in the Gripen, what is happening on this deal. It is hight time, we should sew this deal close. The longer this deal is left hanging there will more incentive for mischief mongers to muddy the waters.
Arent we reading too much into a joyride? He goes to Sweden for a seminar and gets offered a ride in the Gripen, he takes it up. Big deal..happens all the time. Defence chiefs keep visiting different nations and getting rides in their frontline aircraft..
 

Archer

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It will be interesting to see Super 30s plus Rafale AESAs...with the AESA, the Rafale gets the performance of the current Sukhoi, whereas with the Super 30, the Sukhoi doubles its reach...a combination of Sukhois lighting up targets with nearer, smaller Rafales and LCAs doing the missile launches can be a very sneaky way to decide conflicts.
 

Drsomnath999

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Sagem Wins Contract for Mica Missile Infrared Seekers from MBDA
Sagem (Safran group) today signed a contract with MBDA to supply nearly 200 infrared seekers for Mica air-to-air missiles.

Developed and produced by Sagem, the Mica IR seeker is a key to the missile's operational effectiveness. Furthermore, the seeker also functions as a sensor providing tactical information to the flight crew, because of its high sensitivity, powerful imaging algorithms, bispectral imagery, automatic acquisition of all targets, ability to lock-on before or after firing, discrimination between targets and countermeasures.

Sagem produces Mica IR seekers in its Poitiers plant in France. The infrared system uses an array developed and produced by Sofradir, a jointly-owned company of Sagem and Thales
Sagem Wins Contract for Mica Missile Infrared Seekers from MBDA : Defense news
 

Armand2REP

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If Super 30 is getting Zhuk AE then its detection range decreases.
 

p2prada

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If Super 30 is getting Zhuk AE then its detection range decreases.
We don't really know. It could be Zhuk or NIIP. But why do you say that the range will decrease?

The Zhuk MFS radar is already more impressive than Bars and reaches Irbis when it comes to target tracked and engaged(30 and 6) as compared to Bars with 16 and 4. I am pretty sure the resolution is also smaller than Bars even though it is a PESA.

Zhuk MFS


The Zhuk A(AESA version) will come with 1500+ T/R modules and at double the peak power as the Zhuk MFS. According to IAF, the new radar is set to double everything that's on the Bars. So, that pretty much reaches Irbis's performance.

Is it that you are basing your opinion on the first prototype with 680 modules? That will only give performance to the level of a RBE-2 AA anyway, if they have done it right. Maybe the FGA-35 is more of an equivalent to RBE-2AA.
 

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