Know Your 'Rafale'

[asianobserve]

Pragmatism if paired with a clear cut strategic objective, like what Deng exhibited, is the best way to go.

Emotionalism and constant resort to historical biasis on the ither hand is the opposite.

 

[Trololo]

Staggered purchase of the Rafale is the best solution for the MRFA. Order another 36 for now. 3 years later another 36. For offsets indigenise the critical parts and spares, and get knowhow on EW, Sensor Fusion, etc.

 

[IndianHawk]

But what I notice from Indiam defence establishment is an ingrained bias against American weapons, and American military in general. This is perhaps understandable since the current crop of Indian defence officials were indoctrinated under the old Soviet relationship.

Lmao usa imposed sactions on india in 1998 was that the fault of soviets??

USA supplied aim120 and f16 to pakistan in 2010s and india shouldn't be biased??

Pakistan openly used f16 against India after balakot strike Indian recovered wreckage of dodged aim 120 missile. All of this was clear violation of usa - pakistan agreement that f16 won't be used against India. Yet usa hasn't done anything about it. Seems to be usa wants pakistan as a proxy against India.

But yes the Soviet are making india biased nothing to do with enormous stupidity of usa.

 

[Covfefe]

But what I notice from Indiam defence establishment is an ingrained bias against American weapons, and American military in general. This is perhaps understandable since the current crop of Indian defence officials were indoctrinated under the old Soviet relationship.

Nobody trusts the US in matters of defence other than the Anglo-Saxons due to the dubious nature of the American deep-state. They have had a clearly stated India-Pakistan hyphenated policy, in which Pakistan which was their "non NATO ally in fighting terror". What did they sell the Pakistanis F16 for? Fighting the Taliban air force? Purchases like fighter jets and warships are an easy dependence for 3-4 decades in terms of spares, support etc. I wouldn't blame the Indian establishment to be wary of the Americans given their track record. You never know when they pull out some xyz "report" out of their arse and blemish you thru their media outlets, and block the sales and support in a Congress run by deeply corrupt old men. Their hearts are bleeding for Uyghurs only now because China has presented itself as an active economic and military threat. China has never been any utopia of human rights and values, but why this response only now? Better to go ahead with Rafales(because Gripen sucks in WVR combat and Chinese Flankers would eat it alive; also it's a European clusterfuck you don't want to get into) and focus more on indigenous platforms.

This thread is for technical discussion on Rafale and a lot of people have made really good contribution. Please take up this India-US relations in the relevant thread

 

[pipebomb]

There is a need for Rafale, wheather its 36 or more and the window for signing this deal will be closed within 2022(after that election campaign starts). Given the current security scenario we are in it is incumbent on Modi ji to take a personal initiative like he took in 2016. There is no point in mrca nautanki. If we are going for a large order of Rafale then i see no reason to go for additional mkis & 29s. Large order probably call for domestic production of Rafale.

But most imp of all, IAF needs to support mk2 whole heartedly.

 

[BON PLAN]

As to Rafale, Pakistanis will already also operate (as mercenaries) it through UAE. They will have an intimate experience on the strengths and weaknesses of Rafale, no different than F-16, albeit without India having significant leverage on Rafale supply line...

You forget that Indian Rafale are fitted with some goodies specific to indian variant : wider band Spectra, wired decoy, some radar refinements, a new OSF....
And that Indian Rafale are on duty, when UAE ones are waited in 5 years at best.

 

[asianobserve]

You forget that Indian Rafale are fitted with some goodies specific to indian variant : wider band Spectra, wired decoy, some radar refinements, a new OSF....
And that Indian Rafale are on duty, when UAE ones are waited in 5 years at best.

The French are always so eager to sell Rafale that the marketing done to UAE was so complete as regards all its features.

 

[BON PLAN]

The French are always so eager to sell Rafale that the marketing done to UAE was so complete as regards all its features.

The US are not eager to sell their flying turkey 35 worldwide ?

 

[Super Flanker]

More than 100 Rafale sold this year ! incredible.

Good for you buddy! Good for the French to get this deal!

 

[Love Charger]

Good for you buddy! Good for the French to get this deal!

He is a above 50 years old mate .
You can't call him buddy , can you ?
Aur aaap young ho

 

[Super Flanker]

He is a above 50 years old mate .
You can't call him buddy , can you ?

Sorry sir.
I was not aware of that. From now onwards
I will call him Sir.

 

[BON PLAN]

Sorry sir.
I was not aware of that. From now onwards
I will call him Sir.

Sir BonPlan. So nice.

 

[Super Flanker]

Sir BonPlan. So nice.

monsieur bon Plan.... that's better now

 

[IndianHawk]

Sir BonPlan. So nice.

A knighted English spy for sure. Traitor to france !!! Bring out the guillotine...

 

[Love Charger]

Sir BonPlan. So nice.

You should not feel nice ,if you a patriotic French , unless you are a english spy .

 

[Jimih]

3 left

 

[Tshering22]

3 left

Hence, the French DM is coming in to ask Ninda Turtle, "So.... what do you want next after 36 Rafales?"

On a serious note, this would be a good opportunity to formalize 2+2 Format with France as well. There are a slew of defence deals that are expected to happen between us: P75i, transfer of nuclear technology for domestic manufacturing of more nuclear submarines, discussion about AMCA's engine in the future, French role in Indo-Pacific (possibly joint naval patrols with French subs). And probably something shadowy that Ajit Doval has in mind that we will never know.

My wishlist would be the Barracuda class subs and the behind-the-door confirmation that Safran becomes our engine partners for AMCA. RR, GE & P&W are too risky.

 

[BON PLAN]

You should not feel nice ,if you a patriotic French , unless you are a english spy .

I'm a patriotic french. The english flag on my avatar only come from my VPN.

 

[Jimih]

My wishlist would be the Barracuda class subs and the behind-the-door confirmation that Safran becomes our engine partners for AMCA. RR, GE & P&W are too risky.

Wish may come true

 

[Super Flanker]

Wish may come true

Hopefully it does. If we are going to Co-operate with any country in terms of Technology related to nuclear Submarines than I have bet on France or maybe Russia.