Kaveri Engine

[pmaitra]

Kaveri is a good engine, the corrupt bloks out in MES probably have taken a huge kick back to consider the American engine. Even for asking a road contract people have to pay the CE at least 10% commission, that's the same as aiadmk going rate for road contract, 10% upfront in cash that is.

With so much corruption everyone from Russians to Pakistanis have lobbies inside our military. Kick backs are generally the norm. There is no reason LCA is not yet inducted except the international arms dealers have payed of the top. If it's open knowledge that the divisional CE takes 10% commission to award works and everyone in the MES knows about it then getting kick backs from deals is no big deal. Russians pay well and that's why we buy more MKIs.

Kaveri won't be allowed to see the light of day, if this was China they would have strapped it on by now and Climed it to be better than f-104.

Good to see you posting after a long hiatus.

I don't think GE F-404 needed kickbacks to be considered for the LCA. It is indeed a capable turbine, and did serve LCA well, if the recent demonstration in Bahrain is any indication. We need to worry about kickbacks when we have something as good as the GE F-404 and despite that, GE F-404 is picked.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Good to see you posting after a long hiatus.

I don't think GE F-404 needed kickbacks to be considered for the LCA. It is indeed a capable turbine, and did serve LCA well, if the recent demonstration in Bahrain is any indication. We need to worry about kickbacks when we have something as good as the GE F-404 and despite that, GE F-404 is picked.

Thanks...

I did not say the F404 was not considered because of corruption, kaveri was not ready by then. However many programs including kaveri are troubled because of kick backs to military to consider them. The black listing of companies is not a new parctice but there is deliberate attempt to consider foreign imports over Indian ones because of the corruption issue.

 

[ajaynehra3944]

Guyzz do we have any latest news about kaveri???I am eagerly waiting for it to be our fighter aircrafts...

 

[G10]

Well kaveri is dead. But we will have some spinoffs from that project. Wait wait till we die.

 

[BON PLAN]

HAL which initiated Improved Tejas MK-1A project has promised first flight by 2017

Whaou ! Seeing the past of HAL promises, it's hard to believe.

 

[BON PLAN]

Kaveri was designed for Tejas with dimensions to fit into the aircraft, now with further weight reduction in MK1A and some tweak in the engine. I think we can put one in Tejas and test. Jags and Mirage have lesser thrust engines so a lesser powered Tejas can be envisaged for a different roles?

YES and NO.
Jaguar has two 3.2 tons engine.
but
Mirage 2000 has 9.7 tons engine.

 

[warrior monk]

Guyzz do we have any latest news about kaveri???I am eagerly waiting for it to be our fighter aircrafts...

I don't think it will be used without fourth generation nickel based single crystal blade super alloy austenitic nickel rich g matrix with Ni3Al while we have achieved only 1st generation SCB till 2010 don't know now . It has a low MBTO as it has not yet shown to have been operated for a significant period of time if I take a guess it has an MBTO of less than 150 hrs . So until you get your fundamentals correct the Engine will be in trouble , we essentially under estimated the development of material science .

Well kaveri is dead. But we will have some spinoffs from that project. Wait wait till we die.

Well how did it die ??

 

[Screambowl]

In the future we should aim to replace all American engines with Indian LBP tubofan completely , no more buying

only if we succeed to convince our military that it's good.

 

[sasum]

YES and NO.
Jaguar has two 3.2 tons engine.
but
Mirage 2000 has 9.7 tons engine.

I think alongwith overweight, underpower is the issue with Kaveri. With after burner it achieved a meagre 80Kn thrust, while a fully loaded Tejas with drop-tank requires 110Kn. Tweaks alone can not do it. May have to reconfigure from core.
Btw, I am curious, passenger Jets have their engines hung from pylons under their wings. Since this space is taken up by missile-pods in Fighter planes, engine(s) is integrated with the fuselage at the tail. Now if the engine is hung below the tail, off-the-shelf engines of required power and/ or weight can be tried out with different Airframes to achieve optimal power-to-weight ratio. Views of knowledgeable members please.

 

[warrior monk]

only if we succeed to convince our military that it's good.

Well thats the issue isn't it low R and D budget . Well if we cancel the Rafale deal and transfer the 11 odd billion euros of the Rafale deal for AMCA and K-10 LBP turbofan we can get both of them ready by 2030 max with a little help from LM or Sukhoi .

No country in the world can develop a LBP turbofan matching Kaveri's data points in under 650 million dollars

Air Mass Flow : 78 kg/s
• Bypass Ratio : 0.16
• Pressure Ratio : 21.5
• TET: 1487 K – 1700 K
•Max.Dry Thrust: 52 kN
• Afterburner Thrust: 81 kN
• Thrust / Weight Ratio: 7.8
• Afterburner SFC: 2.03 kg/hr/kg

 

[warrior monk]

Kaveri spin off

old pic

The Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine for propelling Indian naval ships a two-stage free power turbine designed to translate the gas power into mechanical output to drive the ship propeller .

Salient Features
Output : 15 MW at ISA-SLS
Specific fuel consumption : 0.27 kg/kW-h at ISA-SLS
Fuel : Low sulphur high speed diesel
Power turbine speed : 5800 rpm
TET : 1560 K (max)

courtesy - GTRE

 

[sasum]

Kaveri spin off

old pic
View attachment 7897

The Kaveri Marine Gas Turbine for propelling Indian naval ships a two-stage free power turbine designed to translate the gas power into mechanical output to drive the ship propeller .

Salient Features
Output : 15 MW at ISA-SLS
Specific fuel consumption : 0.27 kg/kW-h at ISA-SLS
Fuel : Low sulphur high speed diesel
Power turbine speed : 5800 rpm
TET : 1560 K (max)

courtesy - GTRE

I think another variant of kmgt is being considered to power diesel-electric locomotive.

 

[garg_bharat]

I think no ship is yet fitted with kmgt. There must be some reason, likely reliability.

India is a big customer of ge marine turbines.

 

[garg_bharat]

Kaveri has not completed its development phase.

HAL is Kaveri fabricator and HAL's record in aero-engines is nothing to write home about.

I don't think it is just specs. It is much more deeper problem.

 

[sasum]

HAL is Kaveri fabricator and HAL's record in aero-engines is nothing to write home about.

HAL didn't do the prototype of Kaveri. GTRE, a DRDO lab did it. Kaveri kmgt is based on Kabni Core, without after-burner. This should not be an engineering challenge. But as you say, nothing has been heard since long. Everything may not be hunky dory.

 

[warrior monk]

I think another variant of kmgt is being considered to power diesel-electric locomotive.

Hybrid diesel electric locos will certainly be a challenge but I don't think they will use Kmgt I don't know whether they are working on something like it .

 

[sasum]

Hybrid diesel electric locos will certainly be a challenge but I don't think they will use Kmgt I don't know whether they are working on something like it .

It is a pretty old report. Now that Kaveri itself is in a bit of doldrums, we can't count on its spin-offs.
http://articles.economictimes.india.../28446695_1_kaveri-engine-kaveri-project-drdo

 

[garg_bharat]

HAL didn't do the prototype of Kaveri. GTRE, a DRDO lab did it. Kaveri kmgt is based on Kabni Core, without after-burner. This should not be an engineering challenge. But as you say, nothing has been heard since long. Everything may not be hunky dory.

Such engine can be fabricated only by a large scale industry. You need a wide variety of machines and tech expertise. GTRE may be a designer, not a fabricator. Big projects require huge amount of industrial support.

Now DRDO has realized that they need to involve private sector for fabrication if their projects have to succeed.

 

[garg_bharat]

Hybrid diesel electric locos will certainly be a challenge but I don't think they will use Kmgt I don't know whether they are working on something like it .

Using gas turbine on land is more difficult compared to sea or air. It is due to dust present in air near land surface.

I think KMGT is not installed on any ship so far. Likely it is reliability problem.

 

[sasum]

Such engine can be fabricated only by a large scale industry. You need a wide variety of machines and tech expertise. GTRE may be a designer, not a fabricator. Big projects require huge amount of industrial support.

GTRE fabricated Kaveri at its own facilities. DRDO labs are not starved of facilities or funds. Successive Govts. pampered them. Only, scientists & engineers are mediocre.