Kaveri Engine

[Anupu]

Kaveri was designed for Tejas with dimensions to fit into the aircraft, now with further weight reduction in MK1A and some tweak in the engine. I think we can put one in Tejas and test. Jags and Mirage have lesser thrust engines so a lesser powered Tejas can be envisaged for a different roles?

Both are not the jets for the future, Kaveri project has ended, let's look at Ghatak, seems promising.

 

[Panjab47]

But where India’s procurement contracts are concerned, there’s always and inevitably a foul-up, the downside. There’s one in the FGFA agreement as well. The wondrously incomprehensible and myopic aspect of this deal is the rejection by IAF-MOD of Moscow’s extraordinarily generous offer to have its Saturn jet engine design bureau (that resulted from the merging of the Lyulka and Tumansky design bureaus) jointly with Indian counterpart (GTRE) develop a powerful new era jet power plant — something no other country will deliver on and, despite promises, certainly not the technology hyper-protective US. But, as reported elsewhere, India will instead buy the Saturn AL-41 engines whole to power the Indian-modified FGFAs! It fits in with IAF-MOD thinking of keeping India forever tied to the apron strings of foreign vendors

http://bharatkarnad.com/2016/02/04/fgfa-deal-by-feb-end-why-rafale-is-going-nowhere-fast/

 

[sasum]

Both are not the jets for the future, Kaveri project has ended, let's look at Ghatak, seems promising.

Ghatak is a 52Kn dry derivative of Kaveri, primarily planned for the under-developement UCAV called AURA. It is not for any combat plane. Engines for UCAVs are usually less powerful than Fighter Jets.
http://www.americanbazaaronline.com...dia-to-make-indigenous-stealth-combat-drones/

 

[warrior monk]

Kaveri was designed for Tejas with dimensions to fit into the aircraft, now with further weight reduction in MK1A and some tweak in the engine. I think we can put one in Tejas and test. Jags and Mirage have lesser thrust engines so a lesser powered Tejas can be envisaged for a different roles?

No it cannot be used because it is showing some problems

1 ) Afterburner tests at CIAM tests at full reheat condition sea level showed acoustic instability in one of tangential mode with frequency in the range 3500-3600 Hz.

2)Don't know if the compressor blade speed is in transonic or in super sonic most engines have super sonic compressor blade engine.

3) You don't use a new engine in a new aircraft so Kaveri I think will not be used for Tejas.

 

[warrior monk]

Both are not the jets for the future, Kaveri project has ended, let's look at Ghatak, seems promising.

No Kaveri has not ended its development has only been divorced from Tejas's development . India will spend 80000 Crs on engines in the next 15 years why should we stop our program

 

[Anupu]

No Kaveri has not ended its development has only been divorced from Tejas's development . India will spend 80000 Crs on engines in the next 15 years why should we stop our program

I thought it has; can you give me a reference.... I am just asking for my knowledge

 

[sasum]

I thought it has; can you give me a reference.... I am just asking for my knowledge

Please read SR-91's post in Defence[dot]pk. Link couldn't be copied.
http://**********/threads/follow-on...400-million-await-ccs-clearance.392709/page-2
Kaveri project has been split in 2 . One is K-9, which GTRE will pursue independently in association with HAL. Other is K-10 for which French Major, Snecma is partnering. K-10 will retain Kaveri Core (Kabni).

 

[Chinmoy]

But where India’s procurement contracts are concerned, there’s always and inevitably a foul-up, the downside. There’s one in the FGFA agreement as well. The wondrously incomprehensible and myopic aspect of this deal is the rejection by IAF-MOD of Moscow’s extraordinarily generous offer to have its Saturn jet engine design bureau (that resulted from the merging of the Lyulka and Tumansky design bureaus) jointly with Indian counterpart (GTRE) develop a powerful new era jet power plant — something no other country will deliver on and, despite promises, certainly not the technology hyper-protective US. But, as reported elsewhere, India will instead buy the Saturn AL-41 engines whole to power the Indian-modified FGFAs! It fits in with IAF-MOD thinking of keeping India forever tied to the apron strings of foreign vendors

http://bharatkarnad.com/2016/02/04/fgfa-deal-by-feb-end-why-rafale-is-going-nowhere-fast/

One of the problem which had plagued FGFA JD from day one with IAF and GoI is work share. Russia definitely wanted to develop the PAK-FA jointly with India, but were reluctant to share the work load as per Indian demand. Means India could definitely work on its designing, but key aspect of the designs would always be out of bound for India. I think this is one of the aspect which led to fall out on the engine designing along with myopic sight and stupidity of top brass.

As far as Rafale is concerned, its more of a political weapon then a strategic one. The MOU had been signed long ago and after going through so much of testing and delay, if now India rejects it, India would loose its credibility in market because of some political blunder. So cutting down the original order of 126 to 36, that too in a Govt to Govt deal the current government is just trying to save face along with saving the billion dollars of tax payers money.

 

[kstriya]

Please read SR-91's post in Defence[dot]pk. Link couldn't be copied.
http://**********/threads/follow-on...400-million-await-ccs-clearance.392709/page-2
Kaveri project has been split in 2 . One is K-9, which GTRE will pursue independently in association with HAL. Other is K-10 for which French Major, Snecma is partnering. K-10 will retain Kaveri Core (Kabni).

If true its a great news, hope we will someday have K9 powering Tejas MK1a..

 

[warrior monk]

I thought it has; can you give me a reference.... I am just asking for my knowledge

Actually there have been technical conferences held by GTRE in which there were research papers presented for the future of LBTF (Low bypass turbo fan) Kaveri engine . Kaveri has been 95% successful but in military aviation only 100 % matters it would have been extremely foolish to abandon it. Most defense journalist misconstrued the news that Kaveri being not being used for Tejas as Kaveri project being cancelled which is not true.
There were insufficiency in our basic research during Kaveri's development which is being rectified now before the engine or the core can be tinkered.

 

[Gessler]

Before AURA, there will be a HALE UCAV of a more conventional design. Most likely to have a twin-jet engine layout, much like the Talarion or the EADS EuroMALE concept.

Most probably it could turn out to be a jet-powered version of Rustom-2. That said, the array of small turbofan engines currently emerging from local manufacturers hints at an upcoming boom in development of air-launched standoff missiles and munition-dispensers.

 

[A chauhan]

Giving up Kaveri program on not achieving remaining 5-7% performance would be like kicking Virat Kohli out of the T20 team for not hitting 100 only scoring 90+.

 

[Sukhpal]

Kaveri Engine is a technologically complex and vital system for the LCA as well as its future variants. It incorporates state-of-the-art technologies and provides the required thrust for indigenous competence in this critical area.

 

[inder]

It is good to hear that The Kaveri’s development is complete.

 

[sasum]

Kaveri's development complete? What are the details? Last heard GTRE was awaiting CCS clearance of ₹2652 crores for further development of Kaveri.

 

[Sukhpal]

Kaveri Engine is a technologically complex and vital system for the LCA as well as its future variants. It incorporates state-of-the-art technologies and provides the required thrust for indigenous competence in this critical area.


Sukhpal Khaira

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Kaveri is a good engine, the corrupt bloks out in MES probably have taken a huge kick back to consider the American engine. Even for asking a road contract people have to pay the CE at least 10% commission, that's the same as aiadmk going rate for road contract, 10% upfront in cash that is.

With so much corruption everyone from Russians to Pakistanis have lobbies inside our military. Kick backs are generally the norm. There is no reason LCA is not yet inducted except the international arms dealers have payed of the top. If it's open knowledge that the divisional CE takes 10% commission to award works and everyone in the MES knows about it then getting kick backs from deals is no big deal. Russians pay well and that's why we buy more MKIs.

Kaveri won't be allowed to see the light of day, if this was China they would have strapped it on by now and Climed it to be better than f-104.

 

[kstriya]

How India is keeping Kaveri engine alive in disguise

Published February 13, 2016


SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG/ IMAGE CREDIT : Anand SG



Last July Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on the floor of parliament informed Parliamentarians that Indian government has spent over 2,101 crores on the development of the indigenous Kaveri Engine but also earlier last year media reported that DRDO along with GTE had decided to wind up the Kaveri engine (GTX-35VS ) programme, signaling an end to a desi dream of equipping its own fighter jet with a home-grown power plant.

Same year GTRE officials on the sidelines of Bharatiya Vigyan Sammelan in Goa also had confirmed to me that Kaveri engine will no longer power LCA and more or less project was on the back-burner due to constant delays over the years and bad press which lead to official delinking of the project with LCA-Tejas programme which eventual lead to funds drying up .

last July Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) issued Tender seeking Expression of Interest (EOI) from reputed Indian private / public sector industries / organisations for manufacturing and assembly of 80 kN thrust class engine consisting about 20000 number of components and parts.

Tender documents spoke of manufacturing and assembling of 80 kN thrust class engine prototypes (20 engines) over a period of 3-4 years. at that point of time, it was unclear why India was keeping Kaveri programme alive since IAF was not interested in Tejas MK-1 and was only considering buying only Tejas MK-2 which was to be equipped with higher-thrust GE engines with a 98kN thrust to meet its power requirements.

Revival of MK-1

But later in 2015 reports started emerging that Upgraded Tejas MK-1A will take to air equipped with New Aesa Radar of Israeli origin and will have 5 % reduction in drag due to design optimization and also will shed some weight to improve maneuverability and performance of the aircraft.

HAL which initiated Improved Tejas MK-1A project has promised first flight by 2017 and is working on improving serviceability of the aircraft by making changes to aircraft internally to reduce downtime and manhours while aircraft is in service. MK-1A will also get On-board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS), Upgraded Avionics and podded Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite along with In-flight refueling probe.

Revival of Kaveri?

GTRE was sanctioned Rs 300 crore to take up future projects and another additional sanction of Rs 700 crore is on its way to help realize these gen-next technologies while a separate fund was to be also sanctioned to the tune of 2,600 crores to take up new projects for unnamed projects.

With 100+ orders been now confirmed for Tejas MK-1A by Indian air force, it is pretty much obvious now why GTRE is allowed to work on development of 80Kn thrust class engine under different name which might eventually be used on Tejas MK-1A when aircraft is up for engine change since it is believed each aircraft requires nearly 3.5 engines throughout its operational history .

 

[kstriya]

How India is keeping Kaveri engine alive in disguise

Published February 13, 2016


SOURCE: Anand SG / FOR MY TAKE / IDRW.ORG/ IMAGE CREDIT : Anand SG



Last July Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar on the floor of parliament informed Parliamentarians that Indian government has spent over 2,101 crores on the development of the indigenous Kaveri Engine but also earlier last year media reported that DRDO along with GTE had decided to wind up the Kaveri engine (GTX-35VS ) programme, signaling an end to a desi dream of equipping its own fighter jet with a home-grown power plant.

Same year GTRE officials on the sidelines of Bharatiya Vigyan Sammelan in Goa also had confirmed to me that Kaveri engine will no longer power LCA and more or less project was on the back-burner due to constant delays over the years and bad press which lead to official delinking of the project with LCA-Tejas programme which eventual lead to funds drying up .

last July Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) issued Tender seeking Expression of Interest (EOI) from reputed Indian private / public sector industries / organisations for manufacturing and assembly of 80 kN thrust class engine consisting about 20000 number of components and parts.

Tender documents spoke of manufacturing and assembling of 80 kN thrust class engine prototypes (20 engines) over a period of 3-4 years. at that point of time, it was unclear why India was keeping Kaveri programme alive since IAF was not interested in Tejas MK-1 and was only considering buying only Tejas MK-2 which was to be equipped with higher-thrust GE engines with a 98kN thrust to meet its power requirements.

Revival of MK-1

But later in 2015 reports started emerging that Upgraded Tejas MK-1A will take to air equipped with New Aesa Radar of Israeli origin and will have 5 % reduction in drag due to design optimization and also will shed some weight to improve maneuverability and performance of the aircraft.

HAL which initiated Improved Tejas MK-1A project has promised first flight by 2017 and is working on improving serviceability of the aircraft by making changes to aircraft internally to reduce downtime and manhours while aircraft is in service. MK-1A will also get On-board Oxygen Generation System (OBOGS), Upgraded Avionics and podded Electronic Warfare (EW) Suite along with In-flight refueling probe.

Revival of Kaveri?

GTRE was sanctioned Rs 300 crore to take up future projects and another additional sanction of Rs 700 crore is on its way to help realize these gen-next technologies while a separate fund was to be also sanctioned to the tune of 2,600 crores to take up new projects for unnamed projects.

With 100+ orders been now confirmed for Tejas MK-1A by Indian air force, it is pretty much obvious now why GTRE is allowed to work on development of 80Kn thrust class engine under different name which might eventually be used on Tejas MK-1A when aircraft is up for engine change since it is believed each aircraft requires nearly 3.5 engines throughout its operational history .

At last this news makes sense...

 

[warrior monk]

In the future we should aim to replace all American engines with Indian LBP tubofan completely , no more buying