Kaveri Engine

[Vijyes]

Crystal structure obstructs proper reaction mate.

If you dissolve it in extremely powerful acid, like aqua regia, it will dissolve. Then you will have to separate them by weight. If you are planning to just melt, bad dreams. Melting is not possible for separation of alloy components.

 

[no smoking]

DRDO head said that kaveri is working fine. We have prototypes and they are doing good but they makes more noise and we do not know why. We need a consultency to see whether there is any problem or not?

That is wired statement!
DRDO claims the engine is generating MORE noise not big noise, it means that they must have a standard noise level coming from the original design and now the noise is obviously higher than the designed level. There must be a series of calculations with the specific formulas and parameters to lead them to that target. In other words, they have tools and math model to find the reason if there is variance. But now, DRDO tells us that they can't find why in the past 6 years since the engine was claimed successful on flying test bed, it makes you wonder how did they get their designed noise level in early stage.

Ok, I admit, sometimes, there is indeed some problems you can't explain. But not in this case, just keep this in mind: they designed this engine from scratch, they should know every detail of this engine.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Can you provide source of this, I hope you have it ..

DRDO head said that kaveri is working fine. We have prototypes and they are doing good but they makes more noise and we do not know why. We need a consultency to see whether there is any problem or not?

 

[delbruky]

The complexity of Femto Second Laser Machining required for single crystal alloys (used in blades) is mind boggling, very few labs in the US and Germany have this capability. Here is an article citation
<http://www.tms.org/superalloys/10.7449/2004/superalloys_2004_687_696.pdf>
The reason of slow pace of development even on KET even after Parrikar took charge is because India lacks this machining technique.
if anyone here has real interest in super-alloys and machining technology please take time to review this article.
I am certain there isn't any lab in India that has this kind of precesion machining.

"FEMTOSECOND LASER MICROMACHINING OF SINGLE-CRYSTAL SUPERALLOYS
Q. Feng1, Y. N. Picard1, H. Liu2, S. M. Yalisove1, G. Mourou2 and T. M. Pollock1
1University of Michigan, Department of Materials Science and Engineering, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
2University of Michigan, Center for Ultrafast Optical Science, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Keywords: Femtosecond laser, Laser drilling, Superalloy, Single crystal, Thermal barrier coatings (TBC)"

 

[delbruky]

The complexity of Femto Second Laser Machining required for single crystal alloys (used in blades) is mind boggling, very few labs in the US and Germany have this capability. Here is an article citation
<http://www.tms.org/superalloys/10.7449/2004/superalloys_2004_687_696.pdf>
The reason of slow pace of development even on KET even after Parrikar took charge is because India lacks this machining technique.
if anyone here has real interest in super-alloys and machining technology please take time to review this article.
I am certain there isn't any lab in India that has this kind of precesion machining.

"FEMTOSECOND LASER MICROMACHINING OF SINGLE-CRYSTAL SUPERALLOYS
Q. Feng1, Y. N. Picard1, H. Liu2, S. M. Yalisove1, G. Mourou2 and T. M. Pollock1
1University of Michigan, Department of Materials Science and Engineering, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
2University of Michigan, Center for Ultrafast Optical Science, Ann Arbor, MI 48109
Keywords: Femtosecond laser, Laser drilling, Superalloy, Single crystal, Thermal barrier coatings (TBC)"

I'll be surprised if Fengs and Lius working in these labs haven't passed prop info on super alloys to their comrades in the CPP?

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Can you provide source of this, I hope you have it ..

Please read the interview of non other than DRDO head Christopher.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

That is wired statement!
DRDO claims the engine is generating MORE noise not big noise, it means that they must have a standard noise level coming from the original design and now the noise is obviously higher than the designed level. There must be a series of calculations with the specific formulas and parameters to lead them to that target. In other words, they have tools and math model to find the reason if there is variance. But now, DRDO tells us that they can't find why in the past 6 years since the engine was claimed successful on flying test bed, it makes you wonder how did they get their designed noise level in early stage.

Ok, I admit, sometimes, there is indeed some problems you can't explain. But not in this case, just keep this in mind: they designed this engine from scratch, they should know every detail of this engine.

I am not here to guess anything. I am just quoting S. Christopher.

 

[TPFscopes]

French Safran Roped In For Sorting Last Minute 'Noisy' Hiccup.

As of the latest report it has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials is the reason for which the French Assistance was requested. This had all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile.

Detailed analysis over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance.

According to LiveFist, the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification.

On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.

The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines.

Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manak mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.

There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy.

 

[SanjeevM]

Is it possible to involve one more engine manufacturer in parallel to Snecma? It will make sure that Snecma delivers. Also do we have expertise in private corporate sector through their foreign collaboration partners to look at the engine in parallel? I hope if enquiries are sent to private sector, they may come up with something.

 

[TPFscopes]

Is it possible to involve one more engine manufacturer in parallel to Snecma? It will make sure that Snecma delivers. Also do we have expertise in private corporate sector through their foreign collaboration partners to look at the engine in parallel? I hope if enquiries are sent to private sector, they may come up with something.

GTRE is the public player who is in the parallel run.

 

[SanjeevM]

GTRE is the public player who is in the parallel run.

How about L&T, Mahindra, Reliance etc with their foreign partners?

 

[TPFscopes]

How about L&T, Mahindra, Reliance etc with their foreign partners?

Most of the JVs are not producing a whole system. either they are producing components or assembling the Systems.

 

[SanjeevM]

Most of the JVs are not producing a whole system. either they are producing components or assembling the Systems.

If we tell corporates that we need to make maverick ready, can they explore from their sources if they can contribute?

 

[TPFscopes]

If we tell corporates that we need to make maverick ready, can they explore from their sources if they can contribute?

Due to the present Government's positive approach, private players also show some enthusiastic move in many fields.

Private partnership in Defence will show some fruitful results in long run

 

[WolfPack86]

As you've read in recent Livefist reports, an important official update on India's Ghatak stealth UCAV programme & Kaveri 'dry' engine.
https://twitter.com/livefist?lang=en

 

[zebra7]

There is two engine programme running in parallel with section of third one in Jan 2017 . First with the help of snacma of 88/57 kn with blisk and second generation scb with engine intended to fly in Tejas in 2018 . Second one is based on k8 , which gtre is running on its own to master core , they reportedly solve all problems of vibration etc etc but have no blisk and scb . Third one is k10 sectioned in 2017 for 110 kn engine for amca will have Indian scb , blisk , wide cord blade etc etc .

Why stuck with Blisk and SCB, which is just a part of the engine. The root problem is the metallurgy which is used in the Core of the engine, where GTRE is lagging. No one is saying that India don't have SCB, infact there was the picture of the SCB blade produced by the DMRL on the public domain also, but of which Generation ??? SCB is the latest trend/tech introduced in 80's but the earlier generation from 1-3 don't have any advantage over the Brisk. Don't be jignostic, there is no SCB yet, and using Blisk does not makes Kaveri inferior. When we says their is Vibration problem, that means the Kaveri engine have Acquosition Vibration problem at certain speed of the 13th order, which will tends to through away the Blisk and all rotating assemblies. And Scnerma of france will only give you the advice to the GTRE, and will not give you any tech. or rare metal alloy composition. There is now two program running one is K9+ and K10. K9+ is the improvement of the Kaveri and will be used in LCA trainer, UAVs, Naval application's etc. K10 is the next variant of the Kaveri and a tech. demonstrator for the futuristic uses and after its complition, the Kaveri engine of highter rating 100+ KN will be made on its tech. AMCA is the project of ADA, and the engine selection is yet to be made. Infact IAF haven't given its ASQR to the ADA, and without it, the thrust required is not known, and the one who makes this like of speculation is not living in the reality.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

jingoism : extreme patriotism, especially in the form of aggressive or warlike foreign policy.
"the popular jingoism that swept the lower–middle classes"
synonyms: extreme patriotism, blind patriotism, chauvinism, extreme nationalism, flag-waving, excessive loyalty to one's country, xenophobia;More

=================

Whatever is your view can be put in civil manner without calling names let it be jingo or anything else, Keep away terrorist forum behavior till terrorist forum ..

Carry on ..

Don't be jignostic,

 

[HariPrasad-1]

Can you provide source of this, I hope you have it ..

Please find here with the source you had asked for.

Indian Kaveri Turbofan’s Last Mile Problem: A Mystery Noise
Shiv Aroor Mar 09 2017 10 00 am

Decayed performance at high altitude, insufficient thrust, excessive weight. Some of the problems the DRDO has reported on its Kaveri turbofan engine, a project in development for nearly three decades. It has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials has all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile. Detailed analyses over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance. What Livefist can confirm is that the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification. Apart from the noise in the high throttle spectrum, scientists have also been grappling with a flicker, indicating inconsistent combustion or fuel transmission, when the afterburners is engaged.

On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.

The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines. Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manik mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.

Follow
Livefist @livefist
VIDEO: India's @DRDO_India Kaveri jet engine at#AeroIndia2017. Now in revival mode with a tech infusion from@SAFRAN Snecma.

11:18 AM - 15 Feb 2017

• https://twitter.com/intent/tweet?in_reply_to=831741941767344129
  
• 
  5454 Retweets
  
• 
  7676 likes

There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy. Those implications, at any rate, would be clearer only once the Kaveri proves itself at every level of performance and envelope. It’s useful to break down the state of play with the new Kaveri in the projected mix.

LCA Mk.1/1A: Currently powered by GE 404. Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri, with first integration aimed for by 2020.

Rafale: Powered by twin Snecma M88 turbofans.

LCA Mk.2: Two of eight GE F414-INS6 turbofan engines were delivered last month to keep the programme rolling. The future of the Mk.2, though, remains uncertain. If the modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri can be uprated enough to meet Mk.2 demands, it could change things. For the moment, this doesn’t appear to be on the cards.

IAF Single-Engine Fighter: Either the GE F414 (on the Gripen E) or the GE F110/Pratt&Whitney F100 (on the F-16).

Indian Navy Multirole Carrier Fighter: A toss-up, effectively, between the Snecma M88 and GE F414.

AMCA: Intended to be powered by modified DRDO/Snecma Kaveri in twin engine configuration. But this remains in the air for the moment. There are other suitors, notably Boeing’s aggressive pitch that pushes the enhanced GE F414 supercruise capable engine for the AMCA, an engine family that Boeing’s Super Hornet shares with the Saab Gripen E.

GHATAK UCAV: DRDO/Snecma Kaveri modified for non-reheat stealth operations. The Government is clear at this stage that it doesn’t want a foreign powerplant on the sensitive programme.


https://www.livefistdefence.com/wp-...le-problem-a-mystery-noise.html/index.html.gz

 

[HariPrasad-1]

French Safran Roped In For Sorting Last Minute 'Noisy' Hiccup.

As of the latest report it has now emerged that an unexpected ‘noise’ during high power trials is the reason for which the French Assistance was requested. This had all but stalled the programme in what the team believes is its last mile.

Detailed analysis over the last two years have failed to narrow down the nature of cause of the noise, and scientists are also unable to tell if the noise is an influence aerodynamic performance.

According to LiveFist, the phenomenon is only the latest in a series of complications that have bedeviled the Kaveri. The noise the five engines specimens make in high throttle regimes is a key issue being placed before France’s Snecma for the remaining path to certification.

On Jan 3 this year, the Safran Group created and advertised for the new position of Director for the Kaveri engine programme.

The good news for the programme is that the DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelise offsets from the Indian Rafale deal to resurrect the Kaveri. Snecma, a partner in the Rafale programme, builds the Rafale’s twin M88 turbofan engines.

Under the terms of the partnership finalised late last year, Snecma is working to modify, certify and integrate the Kaveri on a Light Combat Aircraft airframe before 2020. A later phase in the partnership will involve modifications on the Kaveri for a twin configuration on India’s AMCA fifth generation fighter concept and an altered non-reheat version for the Ghatak UCAV. It is not clear if the Snecma partnership will stretch to the concept Manak mini-turbofan being developed for UAVs and cruise missiles. One of the Kaveri specimens was on display at the recent Aero India show.

There are important implications of the Snecma-DRDO partnership on the Kaveri engine. A Kaveri engine sporting potential commonality with the Snecma M88 could be compelling factor in how India chooses its next fighter jets, both for the Indian Air Force and Indian Navy.

Articles are silent in Power that engine generates. I hope they mignt have reached 60 KN dry and 90 KN wet.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Ok, seems true.

carry on ...

=====================================