Kaveri Engine

[Truthsoldier]

Considering our dependency on engine technology and huge market wouldn't it be prudent for DRDO to share kaveri tech to 3-4 big private players at low cost, for them to develop variants. Maybe we ll get much needed breakthrough

 

[NutCracker]

Considering our dependency on engine technology and huge market wouldn't it be prudent for DRDO to share kaveri tech to 3-4 big private players at low cost, for them to develop variants. Maybe we ll get much needed breakthrough

No one has balls and capital to spend.. period

 

[Tridev123]

Considering our dependency on engine technology and huge market wouldn't it be prudent for DRDO to share kaveri tech to 3-4 big private players at low cost, for them to develop variants. Maybe we ll get much needed breakthrough

That is not an bad suggestion.
By concentrating almost all of Indian gas turbine research(jet engine) and development in only one institution GTRE we are following a myopic strategy.
If GTRE fails, the nation fails.

There is no doubt in acknowledging that GTRE has done a lot of work in jet engine technologies. But it now needs to act as a big brother and help promote R&D on high performance turbofan engine in other institutions also.

Including in the private sector. Finance should not be a huge problem. The Government can provide subsidy and tax breaks to sweeten the deal. An special scheme can be created by large public sector banks to provide loans at heavily concessional rates to such companies which agree to join the National Turbofan Engine Development Mission. But obviously everyone cannot be chosen. Only large companies with experience in engineering and which have a good track record and sound management team should be downselected. They should be assured of large orders if they indeed succeed in developing an flight worthy jet engine.

The task is not easy It will be a marathon effort and not an 100 metres sprint. But at least the chances of success improve.

Maybe in a decade, if we have 3 to 4 teams working(a couple of government/public sector institutions and a couple of private companies) simultaneously on the task of designing and developing an high thrust jet engine, we might just get lucky and achieve a breakthrough.

 

[Arpuster]

That is not an bad suggestion.
By concentrating almost all of Indian gas turbine research(jet engine) and development in only one institution GTRE we are following a myopic strategy.
If GTRE fails, the nation fails.

There is no doubt in acknowledging that GTRE has done a lot of work in jet engine technologies. But it now needs to act as a big brother and help promote R&D on high performance turbofan engine in other institutions also.

Including in the private sector. Finance should not be a huge problem. The Government can provide subsidy and tax breaks to sweeten the deal. An special scheme can be created by large public sector banks to provide loans at heavily concessional rates to such companies which agree to join the National Turbofan Engine Development Mission. But obviously everyone cannot be chosen. Only large companies with experience in engineering and which have a good track record and sound management team should be downselected. They should be assured of large orders if they indeed succeed in developing an flight worthy jet engine.

The task is not easy It will be a marathon effort and not an 100 metres sprint. But at least the chances of success improve.

Maybe in a decade, if we have 3 to 4 teams working(a couple of government/public sector institutions and a couple of private companies) simultaneously on the task of designing and developing an high thrust jet engine, we might just get lucky and achieve a breakthrough.

That is not an bad suggestion.
By concentrating almost all of Indian gas turbine research(jet engine) and development in only one institution GTRE we are following a myopic strategy.
If GTRE fails, the nation fails.

There is no doubt in acknowledging that GTRE has done a lot of work in jet engine technologies. But it now needs to act as a big brother and help promote R&D on high performance turbofan engine in other institutions also.

Including in the private sector. Finance should not be a huge problem. The Government can provide subsidy and tax breaks to sweeten the deal. An special scheme can be created by large public sector banks to provide loans at heavily concessional rates to such companies which agree to join the National Turbofan Engine Development Mission. But obviously everyone cannot be chosen. Only large companies with experience in engineering and which have a good track record and sound management team should be downselected. They should be assured of large orders if they indeed succeed in developing an flight worthy jet engine.

The task is not easy It will be a marathon effort and not an 100 metres sprint. But at least the chances of success improve.

Maybe in a decade, if we have 3 to 4 teams working(a couple of government/public sector institutions and a couple of private companies) simultaneously on the task of designing and developing an high thrust jet engine, we might just get lucky and achieve a breakthrough.

GTRE isnt the only one. There is also AERDC in HAL which is involved in R&D of aero engines since decades. Moreover, many educational institutions does R&D on jet engines.

 

[BON PLAN]

Considering our dependency on engine technology and huge market wouldn't it be prudent for DRDO to share kaveri tech to 3-4 big private players at low cost, for them to develop variants. Maybe we ll get much needed breakthrough

You need a huge R&D financial and technical capacity to deal with engine technology.
SAFRAN is among the smallest able do deal with, despite its 80000 employees and 25€ billions of turnover. => not easy to find these private players.

 

[karn]

You need a huge R&D financial and technical capacity to deal with engine technology.
SAFRAN is among the smallest able do deal with, despite its 80000 employees and 25€ billions of turnover. => not easy to find these private players.

Probably not the engine itself..But secondary uses .. Things like converting it into a marine engine or creating a turbo prop version. Long back they were creating a version for the railways.

 

[BON PLAN]

Probably not the engine itself..But secondary uses .. Things like converting it into a marine engine or creating a turbo prop version. Long back they were creating a version for the railways.

Good idea. Or as a gas turbine for supplying electricity.

 

[no smoking]

Considering our dependency on engine technology and huge market wouldn't it be prudent for DRDO to share kaveri tech to 3-4 big private players at low cost, for them to develop variants. Maybe we ll get much needed breakthrough

You simply can't do it in short term because:
1. For any company, state owned or private owned, they need a great number of experts with special knowledge to handle the related R&D in multiple fronts - structural mechanics, hydrodynamic, micro-electronic, etc, etc, the private companies in civilian industries generally don't deal with. So, the first thing DRDO need to do is carrying out massive training and education program for those scientists and engineers in private company. Even so, these people will need at least 10-15 years to digest these knowledge before doing any meaningful work individually, to mention to do the work as a team.
2. Doing R&D requires a massive scale of supporting infrastructure, of which DRDO itself is still in the middle of building. So, who is going to pay for investment on these expensive equipment, which won't see any return in next 20 years.

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

What these Britshits are talking about ?????

 

[Vamsi]

What these Britshits are talking about ?????


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Another screwdrivergiri....don't take it serious at all.....

All Zooropeans are our enemies, so it is foolishness to expect them help us....they will dangle this carrot for 10 years & then sell us their engine with screwdrivergiri... that's it simple

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

Another screwdrivergiri....don't take it serious at all.....

All Zooropeans are our enemies, so it is foolishness to expect them help us....they will dangle this carrot for 10 years & then sell us their engine with screwdrivergiri... that's it simple

I am not and never will dont trust any gora out there.

I am the worst critique of the Goras offering Tech.

But these words were never heard before, better take these with pinch of salt :

This is not like other platforms where India would have to seek permissions to export either,” a UK delegation at the Aero India 2023 said.

“India will be the sixth nation to have this jet technology and it will be a sovereign Make-in-India capability,” Chalk said.

 

[Tridev123]

GTRE isnt the only one. There is also AERDC in HAL which is involved in R&D of aero engines since decades. Moreover, many educational institutions does R&D on jet engines.

Well, but the mandate given to GTRE was different from that given to the other organisations. Namely develop an high performance turbofan engine of 80 - 90 kn(wet thrust with afterburner) suitable for installation on planes like the Tejas LCA mk1.

The GOI investment in GTRE is the highest when compared to the other two organisations. Also the facilities at GTRE are better than the other two.

HAL is doing an credit worthy work with developing the STFE of 25 kn dry thrust suitable for trainers and UAV's. Hope they succeed soon.

I know many IIT's and the IISc(almost 100% sure) and probably a few other universities have an quite good aerospace engineering department and might be even conducting some research into some aspects of HP turbofan engines.

But I think it can be conceded that they certainly cannot claim mastery over the entire knowledge system pertaining to the design and development of high performance fighter engines which can used in contemporary fighter aircraft.

What GTRE has achieved and the technical base that they have created probably cannot be matched by any other organisation carrying out similar research in turbofan engine technology.

Inspite of all these praises for the GTRE, it still falls short when compared to the global jet engine manufacturers. Because it is an extremely complex technology.
But I believe an country like India which produced an Noble Prize winner in Physics(one of the few Asian origin winners at that time) many decades ago can succeed. It is not a question of IF but WHEN.

But one glaring lacuna is the complete absence of an indigenous Flying Test Bed. It is ridiculous to depend on another country to get our jet engines tested. By using places like Leh in Ladakh region for testing indigenous turbofan engines some amount of simulation of high altitude testing can be done. Ladakh is certainly at a much higher altitude compared to Bengaluru where the GTRE is located.

Not exactly an ideal alternative to actual testing on an aircraft(FTB) flying at high altitudes.

Since we presently cannot independently design and manufacture an Flying Test Bed, assistance should be sought from either Russia or the European countries. We need to procure an FTB at the earliest.

 

[Vamsi]

I am not and never will dont trust any gora out there.

I am the worst critique of the Goras offering Tech.

But these words were never heard before, better take these with pinch of salt :

This is not like other platforms where India would have to seek permissions to export either,” a UK delegation at the Aero India 2023 said.

“India will be the sixth nation to have this jet technology and it will be a sovereign Make-in-India capability,” Chalk said.

It's just a carrot..... believe that it's true ...then you are royally screwed

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

It's just a carrot..... believe that it's true ...then you are royally screwed

Saaaar,

This is what I am saying.

 

[Tridev123]

You need a huge R&D financial and technical capacity to deal with engine technology.
SAFRAN is among the smallest able do deal with, despite its 80000 employees and 25€ billions of turnover. => not easy to find these private players.

Mon ami, the French have been one of the few countries who have helped India on the technology front. Without ulterior motives.

Buy, pardon me if I get the impression that you are trying to scare us about the gigantic task to be accomplished if we seek to develop an fully indigenous high performance turbofan engine.

Some encouraging words and actual technical help on the ground will serve India better. I think that we can expect that from an friend.

 

[Vamsi]

 

[DeadCritic]

big milestone with decent dry thrust.


I hope someone at AeroIndia does an interview about it.
What things are improved? Did it manage to shred some weight as well(Heard it was 200kg overweight compared to GE404 for the same thrust output)?

 

[WarmongerLSK]

Quick question, do jets like Tejas use the engine at afterburner? If not do they mostly travel subsonic without afterburner and only go supersonic using afterburner.

 

[Ugra Bhairav]

Mere Bhai Aab aaya samajhme aap ko ???

Why Britshits are ready collaborate on Jet Engine Technology.

We just breached a Technology Barrier - We have a Jet engine "Core" which works PERFECTLY in class of GE-404.

Dry Kaveri generates 48.5Kn agst 48.9Kn of GE-404.

It is just matter of time we will reach there.

It is there LAST Decade in which they can fleech $$ from India.

Why Loose this LAST opportunity.

By the way what is the financial health of RR ????

 

[indiatester]

I forget what the wet thrust requirement was. 98kN?