Kaveri Engine

[Javelin_Sam]

Kaveri AB was roadmap ended the day LCA MK1 and 2 got married to GE 404 and 414. Kaveri-AB ended up being project where they can work out the issues - learn how to resolve, prove metallurgy and other technologies. The dry Kaveri (non AB version) - is something that will go in UCAV. I think more than anything GTRE right now needs a Flying Engine Test Bed. They need to test their engines, and refine it thoroughly.

If it had come to a stage where it needs to do a flight test, they would've already took it to Russia. Last information is that it had creep, screech issues and unstable combustion, resulting in unstable thrust. No further news whether those were resolved and the ground tests in India were successful

 

[AnantS]

If it had come to a stage where it needs to do a flight test, they would've already took it to Russia. Last information is that it had creep, screech issues and unstable combustion, resulting in unstable thrust. No further news whether those were resolved and the ground tests in India were successful

See in your para itself you stated the need of Flying engine test bed. Ok think this way - you are assigned to write a RTOS or 4G/5G Stack s/w- but only once a blue moon you are allowed to run it on actual Test Bed which is with a third party. Running every time actually costs you money - hence you can only do that once every blue moon. Moreover you were not provided all the development IDE's yet, So you had to develop them inhouse - resultingly your development environment was not as development friendly as in corps. So do you think - will you be able to deliver your product on time or product shall be issue free from Day 1?

 

[Javelin_Sam]

See in your para itself you stated the need of Flying engine test bed. Ok think this way - you are assigned to write a RTOS or 4G/5G Stack s/w- but only once a blue moon you are allowed to run it on actual Test Bed which is with a third party. Running every time actually costs you money - hence you can only do that once every blue moon. Moreover you were not provided all the development IDE's yet, So you had to develop them inhouse - resultingly your development environment was not as development friendly as in corps. So do you think - will you be able to deliver your product on time or product shall be issue free from Day 1?

The need of a flying test bed is valid. But the issues that plagued the last flight tests, whats the progress on that? One doesn't need to go to flight test again to have the answer to this. For GTRE, going to Russian test facility is easier any day rather than waiting for babus and GoI in New Delhi to get a domestic flying test bed. Even Suffren who GTRE consulted recently zeroed in on the same issues plaguing Kaveri and proposed their core as alternative. This was around 2-3 years ago. So the issue is still there and it will definitely crop up in ground runs. Do not know the progress in last 2 years. Some handles were reporting about a dry thrust version for Ghatak. Not sure

 

[AnantS]

The need of a flying test bed is valid. But the issues that plagued the last flight tests, whats the progress on that? One doesn't need to go to flight test again to have the answer to this. For GTRE, going to Russian test facility is easier any day rather than waiting for babus and GoI in New Delhi to get a domestic flying test bed. Even Suffren who GTRE consulted recently zeroed in on the same issues plaguing Kaveri and proposed their core as alternative. This was around 2-3 years ago. So the issue is still there and it will definitely crop up in ground runs. Do not know the progress in last 2 years. Some handles were reporting about a dry thrust version for Ghatak. Not sure

Again you haven't understood the example. If you have a test bed - you can at least churn out a flyable engine with not so desirable characteristics. That gives you confidence and morale boost like anything. This would have paved way to other engines like a Heli Turbine or Turboprop. Look at china -heck its using a Mig 21 engine in its one of the new diamond wing UAV. Some problems take a lot of time - and it takes experience and patience to resolve them. One needs to leverage what has been achieved.

 

[Flying Dagger]

Kaveri already had After Burner. Thats why it has wet Thrust figure.

Actually that part is the tricky one... We couldn't successfully develop the afterburner .

I'm not denying that, but when some one says that muricans will share their tech, then its definitely a scam

How do you think Korea became such a powerhouse in manufacturing.

So, what should we do then??
Kill 110KN engine project in favour of screwdrivergiri??

Please do not say that we can do both of the them simultaneously, we cannot, the reason is simple, neither our babooz nor jernails nor netas will show any interest towards an indigenous development because the screwdrivered one will full fill our demand, just like how Kaveri AB version is abandoned after F404

That's your take, no one else said that 110 kn engine development needs to be abandoned. This is about producing engines in India which we are already buying from GE for Tejas and AMCA.

 

[johnj]

That's your take, no one else said that 110 kn engine development needs to be abandoned. This is about producing engines in India which we are already buying from GE for Tejas and AMCA.

India already buying 99 ge414 engines under make in india, first batch comes from ge usa directly and rest manufactured in india.
GE F414 Engines Selected to Power India Light Combat Aircraft Program

October 1, 2010 -- India's Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) has selected 99 F414 GE fighter jet engines to power the Mk II version of the Tejas Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) for the Indian Air Force.

GE Aviation will supply the initial batch of F414-GE-INS6 engines and the rest will be manufactured in India under transfer of technology arrangement."

GE won the deal against ej200.
South korea manufactures both ge404 & ge414.
These deal is not related to amca 110kn jv.
India also manufacturing russian engines for fighter jets.

 

[AnantS]

Actually that part is the tricky one... We couldn't successfully develop the afterburner .

I thought screech issues were resolved as per interactions which @jik60 had with officials during aero india, iirc.

 

[no smoking]

How do you think Korea became such a powerhouse in manufacturing.

By having over 23,000 Amercian soldiers deploying in Korean land and putting Korean forces under American generals' command.
In other words, Americans have full control of all these shared technologies even in Korea.

 

[Flying Dagger]

By having over 23,000 Amercian soldiers deploying in Korean land and putting Korean forces under American generals' command.
In other words, Americans have full control of all these shared technologies even in Korea.

Those soldiers are there to provide them cover and protection from dirty regimes like NK and China. It's called alliance.

The same people who saved China from Japanese.

 

[BON PLAN]

India already buying 99 ge414 engines under make in india, first batch comes from ge usa directly and rest manufactured in india.

Whay is the level of manufacture? Assembly of CKD kits? Some parts production? Full parts production?

 

[BON PLAN]

What is the guarantee that the 110KN partner .. will not leave us with screwdrivers.

All is to fine fine definied in the contract. It's as simple as that.
When HAL wanted to much from Dassault for MMRCA 1, no deal was inked. In the contrary if you ask too few you will have few.

 

[johnj]

Whay is the level of manufacture? Assembly of CKD kits? Some parts production? Full parts production?

Initially around 70% and goes upto 85% according to GE, rest unknown. South Korea also manufacturing GE engines for fighter jets. I think level of manufacturing is similar to al31.

 

[Corvus Splendens]

Whay is the level of manufacture? Assembly of CKD kits? Some parts production? Full parts production?

I suspect the core will come from America, rest will be made here with locally sourced materials.

 

[BON PLAN]

I suspect the core will come from America, rest will be made here with locally sourced materials.

Probably. The hot core is the main sub system of an engine, with the more skill and know how. It is the crown jewel of the engine.

When SNECMA and GE decided to built together the CFM56, the US government requested the hot core coming from F101 engine) to be made fully in USA, and cold part for the french.

 

[blackleaf]

The 110kn jv will take time to come to fruition. Maybe more than 10 years. In the mean time we can manufacture the GE engines that will be used in the Tejas line and AMCA.
Having some of the engine manufactured in India is better than nothing and it will help with servicing and shore up the supply chain.

 

[no smoking]

Those soldiers are there to provide them cover and protection from dirty regimes like NK and China. It's called alliance.

The same people who saved China from Japanese.

American's protection doesn't come for free.
These American soldiers are there to protect Koreans, but more importantly, there are there to protect American national interest. If Koreans attempt to do anything with these American shared technologies, which are not fit American interest, these American soldiers are there to stop them.
For example, if a Korean company decides that they should sell some products with American technologies to China or Russia, even though it is legal under Korean law, the American army can simply wipe out the factory or kill the company leader in an "accident", and Korean police has no right to charge any American soldier who is responsible for this "accident".

 

[Flying Dagger]

American's protection doesn't come for free.
These American soldiers are there to protect Koreans, but more importantly, there are there to protect American national interest. If Koreans attempt to do anything with these American shared technologies, which are not fit American interest, these American soldiers are there to stop them.
For example, if a Korean company decides that they should sell some products with American technologies to China or Russia, even though it is legal under Korean law, the American army can simply wipe out the factory or kill the company leader in an "accident", and Korean police has no right to charge any American soldier who is responsible for this "accident".

1. They aren't Communist and aren't going to do Tiananmen Square on their own people atleast.

2. American companies and government themselves have enabled china to this position both economically and in technology. If they were really like Mao or Chinese like you said there would have no china in the first place.

3. If a Rogue company or person is interested in enabling a communist china regime to gain access to some critical military technology then it is legit for American soldiers to take action against it for the interest of whole human kind as china is literally definition of an evil communist regime.

4. They haven't yet punished China for Chinese Corona so, that tells how silly your point was.


And we are talking about relationship of India and America. If they have decided to build , produce and do tech transfer for GE engine tech to India and its approved we appreciate that decision.

 

[blackleaf]

American's protection doesn't come for free.
These American soldiers are there to protect Koreans, but more importantly, there are there to protect American national interest. If Koreans attempt to do anything with these American shared technologies, which are not fit American interest, these American soldiers are there to stop them.
For example, if a Korean company decides that they should sell some products with American technologies to China or Russia, even though it is legal under Korean law, the American army can simply wipe out the factory or kill the company leader in an "accident", and Korean police has no right to charge any American soldier who is responsible for this "accident".

Without America South Korea would not exist and all South Koreans would have been living under the North Korean regime after WW2. America spent billions of dollars and lost thousands of men protecting South Korea during the Korean war.
Any South Korean can look across the border at the standard of living in North Korea and see how much they owe to the Americans.

 

[NutCracker]

What are the chances of Dry Kaveri being used for initial HLFT-42 and then moving to Wet variant ?
No updates since long time, last we heard Kaveri being tested in Russia

 

[no smoking]

1. They aren't Communist and aren't going to do Tiananmen Square on their own people atleast.

They are not communism country doesn't mean American will trust them with American top technologies.

2. American companies and government themselves have enabled china to this position both economically and in technology. If they were really like Mao or Chinese like you said there would have no china in the first place.

Really?
First of all, US investment had been lagging behind everyone else in the Chinese market, cars, electronics, jet plane, you name it. Americans have been reluctant to invest until Chinese got the similar technologies/production line from someone else or by herself.
Secondly, what top technologies have Americans given Chinese? None!

3. If a Rogue company or person is interested in enabling a communist china regime to gain access to some critical military technology then it is legit for American soldiers to take action against it for the interest of whole human kind as china is literally definition of an evil communist regime.

That is funny, who gave American soldiers to do these kind of terrorism activities outside US jurisdiction, in her ally's land?

4. They haven't yet punished China for Chinese Corona so, that tells how silly your point was.

Or they just can't because they don't have any solid evidence to support their claim. Just like they did with Iraq's mass destruction weapon?

And we are talking about relationship of India and America. If they have decided to build , produce and do tech transfer for GE engine tech to India and its approved we appreciate that decision.

That is why I am telling you that you won't get the leve of tech transfering of GE engine tech that you want!
Because: 1. India is not a country controlled by US (i.e. South Korea or Japan);
2. India won't be able to pay the price of such tech transfer.
The only possibility is when India develops her own jet engine, US will consider to sell their similar technologies to India.