Kaveri Engine

MonaLazy

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i wanna know how much secrecy is there for this technology (Jet Engine) and how much are we exposed ourselves in terms of noncompatibility
A lot, more than nuclear technology. It is closely guarded & in the hands of just a few nations- who refuse to share it with others. US doesn't share it's bleeding edge with its most allied allies.

As for our exposure- we are naked.

This should help explain the challenge:
 

Covfefe

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When the sums involved in both JVs are about the same ~$6B, & RR was quite open and upfront with full IP transfer to India. They have a fantastic track record in cutting edge engine technology- right upto EJ200 and even Tempest engines (to the extent that Japanese are leaning on RR for some help). Then why are we not sealing the deal there?



What more can we expect the Britons to offer?

On the subject of future sanctions- i think both French and Brits are equally hairy.
Maybe the GoI trying to utilise some of the Safran's offset obligations into the engine JV. That way GoI saves some bucks upfront.
 

MonaLazy

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Maybe the GoI trying to utilise some of the Safran's offset obligations into the engine JV. That way GoI saves some bucks upfront.
Aren't we running through that money for French consultation with dry Kaveri for Ghatak?

Also, even if 100% of those offsets are used for 110kN jet engine- they amount to $0.83B (₹6300 cr) which is huge but not enough for that effort. But a distinct possibility, yes.

CS-Rafal-Oct8-2_Large_0-x1000.jpg


But then again, we can't go 20% of the way with Safran and not know who the partner for rest 80% of the program will be. Whoever it is will be there from start to end. So a little unlikely from that point of view. Whoever is chosen will be announced with a lot of fanfare i imagine - so the whole world knows
 
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Kalkioftoday

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Because that engine will power fcas
No. FCAS is a heavyweight fighter and for that they'll develop a F119 class engine with german and spanish engine maker. FCAS isn't entirely french program and they don't have all the say in it. Germany and Spain won't use an aircraft with an engine in whose development their own engine makers won't be a part of it even though they are spending 10s of billions of dollars.
 

MonaLazy

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Most probably we are going for a adaptive cycle engine with France
Isn't that skipping one generation of performance in between? When are we going to move from Kaveri (~F404) to 414 to EPE class? Isn't that all we need all the way upto AMCA & TEDBF? Scope creep is a good way to kill a program. For the French also it will be their first outing with ADVENT engines.

Also if you could comment why are we not committing to RR deal? Don't they already offer everything we need?
 

BrigadierRPS

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FCAS engine was supposed to be jointly made by MTU and Safran. But they had some disagreement regarding stakes. MTU is nowhere near to Safran
No. FCAS is a heavyweight fighter and for that they'll develop a F119 class engine with german and spanish engine maker. FCAS isn't entirely french program and they don't have all the say in it. Germany and Spain won't use an aircraft with an engine in whose development their own engine makers won't be a part of it even though they are spending 10s of billions of dollars.
 

MonaLazy

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No. FCAS is a heavyweight fighter and for that they'll develop a F119 class engine with german and spanish engine maker.
They are unable to come to an agreement- Germany wants full access to all the research while the other two want IP protection


 

Haldilal

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i wonder how much know to basic IAF officers have regarding the so called future tech ( 6th generation ) and how much they are keen on getting themselves upgraded in real time situation
Ya'll Nibbiars getting 5 th generation is challenging and you are talking about 6 th generation?.
 

MonaLazy

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So after the settling of sandstorm, it seems Safran will actually be helping develop a Heli engine rather than Low Bypass Turbofan.

https://idrw.org/safran-hal-to-jointly-make-new-engine-for-imrh-program/
If it is a turboshaft then who is the private entity going to be? & why private? if it is about tech transfer for Aneto-1 turboshaft then why not pick HAL who has been making Ardiden 1H1 Shakti all these years under licence?

If it is variable cycle turbojet then maybe L&T who is part of the SPV for AMCA or Ambani who is the tech partner for Rafale in India could be the strategic partner.

Finally this is such a huge event either way- whether helicopter or jet engine - why not give out precise details of the JV? Even the French company name is hidden. Who is India trying to signal/pressurize by such a vague statement with no clarity even two days after. That means they deliberately intended it to be vague.

More questions than answers.

Could it be both? & We end up putting both our turboshaft and turbofan eggs in the French basket?

Report: In addition to jet engine for AMCA, France's Safran also in talks with HAL for joint development of a turboshaft engine for HAL IMRH helicopters, which will eventually replace IAF Mi-17s.

 

Covfefe

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If it is a turboshaft then who is the private entity going to be? & why private? if it is about tech transfer for Aneto-1 turboshaft then why not pick HAL who has been making Ardiden 1H1 Shakti all these years under licence?

If it is variable cycle turbojet then maybe L&T who is part of the SPV for AMCA or Ambani who is the tech partner for Rafale in India could be the strategic partner.

Finally this is such a huge event either way- whether helicopter or jet engine - why not give out precise details of the JV? Even the French company name is hidden. Who is India trying to signal/pressurize by such a vague statement with no clarity even two days after. That means they deliberately intended it to be vague.

More questions than answers.
Some end moment bargains b/w RR and Safran maybe before they announce the jet engine partner in Aero India 2022?
 

MonaLazy

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Some end moment bargains b/w RR and Safran maybe before they announce the jet engine partner in Aero India 2022?
AI is once every two years, next it will be in 2023, but your argument is totally plausible. It is a smart strategy to play these jet engine majors against each other for the best deal.
 

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