Kaveri Engine

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
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Few dollars ? At that time in the 90‘s ruskies were bankrupt. Boris begged us to help sustain their industry by buying significant amounts of Su30s without which the factory would have closed. Its not a few dollars like you say. Any other nation would have atleast attempted to fleece them to try and get the tech. We could have said - no tot, no deal and walked out. They would have been forced to close their factories. We could simply have turned to buy more jags and mirages if ruskies had refused.
 

Karthi

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3D Model of Test Rig Engine Rotor System with an Exploded Dual ERSFD.jpg



3D Model of Test Rig Engine Rotor System with an Exploded Dual Elastic Ring Squeeze Film Damper for small gas turbine engines.(CSIR NAL study)

Elastic Ring Squeeze film damper (ERSFD)
is current interest of study. The damping effect occurs on ERSFD when a structure moves in close proximity to another surface, in effect with alternately stretching and squeezing incompressible fluid that may be present in the space between the moving structures. Reynolds published the squeeze film effect in his study on lubrication. This effect was an important lubricating film together with the wedge effect.


The squeezed fluid can act as a mass, spring and damper, having a significant effect on the dynamics of the oscillating structures. The primary goal of a fluid film damping system is to limit the vibration of a given structure by dissipating the energy to the fluid within the cavity.
 

Chinmoy

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Few dollars ? At that time in the 90‘s ruskies were bankrupt. Boris begged us to help sustain their industry by buying significant amounts of Su30s without which the factory would have closed. Its not a few dollars like you say. Any other nation would have atleast attempted to fleece them to try and get the tech. We could have said - no tot, no deal and walked out. They would have been forced to close their factories. We could simply have turned to buy more jags and mirages if ruskies had refused.
Yeah and we were selling our reserve gold to sustain our economy.
Remember that Sukhoi plant was in danger, not the Lyulka-Saturn. Moreover their economy was in tatters during the whole 90s. Do you think we didn't tried for Brahmos engine tech in 92? Plamja-M got shut down, but we didn't got the tech even after controlling 50.5% share in Brahmos corp.
Do you think Chinese didn't tried for the same engine tech. They had a bigger Su-27 fleet even before we had opted for Su-30.

Engine tech is a Trump card & the most valuable knowledge a nation possess. No one is going to sell it to you for any amount. Order 1 plane and get the engine tech. The future prospect of the seller is finished. Order 500 planes, but held on the engine tech. The buyer would be dependent on you for life. Basic math.
 

Kchontha

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Single use in its lifetime small turbofan for cruise missile is still not yet perfected, forget k9/10.
 

no smoking

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We do have the know how of the engine. Problem with us had been the metallurgy part. No amount of ToT or reverse engineering could help us on that. Look at reverse engineering champs China.
No, Chinese engine was suffering from lots of problem, metallurgy is only a small part of them, and the easiest part to fix. Both China and Soviet had once changed their design to accomodate the inferior metal part when the new material was not delayed.
 

Chinmoy

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It can't sustain thrust at 81Kn. We do not know if it can sustain at 75Kn.
It can sustain the dry thrust of 52 kn, but not the wet thrust. So as of now IAF is only contemplating for use in UAV & UCAV in its current form.
 

proud_indian

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It can sustain the dry thrust of 52 kn, but not the wet thrust. So as of now IAF is only contemplating for use in UAV & UCAV in its current form.
What could be the other applications of the dry variant of Kaveri engine in future? Can it be modified to use it with any transport aircraft?
 

WolfPack86

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Former Naval Chief Backs development of Kaveri engine successor, Says killing it was a blunder

Admiral Arun Prakash Retd tells Shiv Aroor well known defence correspondent that the killing Kaveri engine program was the biggest blunder by India and its right time for India to again start work on successor of the program or forever we will be depended on foreign engine manufactures for our jet engine requirements to the power of Indigenous fighter jets in near future. He also stressed that advancement in engine technology will be difficult to cover for India if we delay in the development of jet engines as the world over the development of new engine tech is underway. Citing Chinese example, Prakash said that the Chinese WS-10 engine has been under development forever and yet Chinese have not given up on the jet engine since they know that they need to continue perfecting the jet engine technology and have produced 300 engines of WS-10 in Mark 2 and Mark 3 to power J10 and J11 jets even though it’s still not perfect. Prakash also backed testing of the Kaveri engine in current configuration for airborne testbed even with deficient thrust so that in the future variant of the engine this can be corrected. Prakash also backed the development of various engines from ships, tanks, and cruise missiles to be made in India for Indian made systems.
 

Chinmoy

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What could be the other applications of the dry variant of Kaveri engine in future? Can it be modified to use it with any transport aircraft?
Being a LBP engine, it would not be economical for transport aircraft. Although work is on to make a Marine Gas Turbine engine out of it. But as of now, we could only say that it is for UAVs only. For that too, work needs to be done on that.
 

no smoking

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Citing Chinese example, Prakash said that the Chinese WS-10 engine has been under development forever and yet Chinese have not given up on the jet engine since they know that they need to continue perfecting the jet engine technology and have produced 300 engines of WS-10 in Mark 2 and Mark 3 to power J10 and J11 jets even though it’s still not perfect. Prakash also backed testing of the Kaveri engine in current configuration for airborne testbed even with deficient thrust so that in the future variant of the engine this can be corrected.
That is a wrong example. When Chinese started putting the WS-10A engine on J-11B, the engine already meet the major parameter targets: the thrust, the weight, temperature, etc, etc. So there was no significant design change in the future. In the following years, the focus was the reliability, quality issues which can only be found and fixed in the production. That is the same issue for everyone's first turbofan engine. After 10 years of usage, PLAAF is finally confident enough about WS-10's reliability, the latest J-10 with single WS-10 is the proof.

In the case of Kaveri engine, however, the issue is different. The engine is suffering from both thrust and weight. It is very likely that the engine will need a major design modification in the future. If you start the airborne test now, all the parameters you get today will have to be tested again once the design modification is done.
 

Karthi

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GTX-35VS_Kaveri.jpg


Public-Private consortium can develop a Jet engine in 7 years: Baba Kalyani.

Baba Kalyani, Managing Director of Bharat Forge in an interview with Nitin Gokhale for BharatShakti.in has said that it’s his dream to develop an indigenous jet engine for the air force. he also said that the Public-Private consortium of 5-6 companies who have experience and technology to develop a jet engine can come together to develop an afterburning turbofan engine in 7 years. Bharat Forge is already manufacturing performance parts and components for many aero-engine manufacturers like Rolls Royce and the company has gained tremendous experience in Metallurgy but a Public-Private consortium can help develop an engine at a much faster rate added Kalyani.

A few days back Admiral Arun Prakash Retd backed project to develop successor of Kaveri engine for upcoming fighter jets. with India working on four fighter jet programs, Chorus has been growing to start the development of a new jet engine project soon for which DRDO is already assembling a team to look into with private players as per DRDO Chief’s interview earlier this year.

Idrw.org
 

Karthi

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53732628-2110060245696130-8753078499536797696-n.jpg


IIT-Madras and General Electric tie-up to build a next-gen combustor for small aircraft and helicopter engines.

IIT Madras and General Electric India Technology Centre (GEITC) are jointly developing a 3D printed combustor aimed at reducing weight and improving fuel efficiency in small aircraft and helicopter engines. Both organisations are designing the combustor – the burner in a gas turbine engine, with nearly one-tenth of the parts as compared to traditional engines.

The Rs 7.24 crore Uchhatar Avishkar Yojana (UAY) project is being carried out by the aerospace department at the Institute and is being funded by the government of India (75%) and GEITC (25%). “The fabricated combustor has only four parts whereas the same combustor, with conventional manufacturing, will have at least thirty parts,” said Prof SR Chakravarthy, Faculty In-charge, National Centre for Combustion Research – NCCRD at IIT Madras.

“The primary objective of this project is to reduce the length of the combustor, which will reduce its weight. It also reduces the fuel consumption of the engine,” he said. The engine could also be used in power generation. In larger aircraft, it could be used as part of an auxiliary power unit (APU), as well as for distributed/decentralised power generation as in backup gensets, or in remote locations, or along with hybrid solar/wind smart grid solutions.

While there have been several improved combustors designs recently, this project aims to further improve these metrics with a design that uses additive manufacturing technology and non-intrusive laser diagnostics. The project team has successfully completed testing three 8-cup full annular combustor configurations. The results show the feasibility of 30% reduction in length of a conventional rich burn combustor.

Currently, the team is focussing on the optical diagnostics experiments where laser diagnostics tools are being used to understand the flow physics inside the combustor. These results will help optimize the performance and to probe any further possibilities of length reduction, the professor said. The size and weight of the engine would be the same depending upon how the combustor is designed to fit into the rest of the engine. The weight savings, however, will be on the raw material of fabrication in additive manufacturing. This could lead to a substantial drop in weight, as much as 50% when compared to conventional combustors.

Further, Dr Chakravarthy said the additive manufacturing of the combustors which were tested for this project were outsourced to Indian suppliers. These suppliers, he said, were now capable of adapting additive techniques for geometries as complex as combustor domes and liner, which in turn would help in developing the country’s additive manufacturing infrastructure. A special feature of this project is that it marks the first time that a 3D printed full annular combustor was tested at actual turbine conditions in India. The lab, which is housed in the National Centre for Combustion Research and Development (NCCRD) at IIT-M also boasts of being the first in India to have a high pressure optically accessible combustor test rig and state of the art laser diagnostics tools under one roof.

IIT-M has an IP rights share with GEITC and expects GEITC to immediately use this in their product. Going forward, Dr Chakravarthy said that if GEITC is not absorbing the technology, for whatever reason, they have the first right of refusal after a lock-in period for IIT-M to commercialise the IP. Commercialization will be in the form of licensing to similar such engine houses as GEITC or to a start-up to develop a product that could be incubated by IIT-M itself.
 

Assassin 2.0

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IIT-Madras and General Electric tie-up to build a next-gen combustor for small aircraft and helicopter engines


Published June 21, 2020 | By admin SOURCE: ET IIT Madras and General Electric India Technology Centre (GEITC) are jointly developing a 3D printed combustor aimed at reducing weight and improving fuel efficiency in small aircraft and helicopter engines. Both organisations are designing the combustor – the burner in a gas turbine engine, with nearly one-tenth of the parts as compared to traditional engines. The Rs 7.24 crore Uchhatar Avishkar Yojana (UAY) project is being carried out by the aerospace department at the Institute and is being funded by the government of India (75%) and GEITC (25%). “The fabricated combustor has only four parts whereas the same combustor, with conventional manufacturing, will have at least thirty parts,” said Prof SR Chakravarthy, Faculty In-charge, National Centre for Combustion Research – NCCRD at IIT Madras. “The primary objective of this project is to reduce the length of the combustor, which will reduce its weight. It also reduces the fuel consumption of the engine,” he said. The engine could also be used in power generation. In larger aircraft, it could be used as part of an auxiliary power unit (APU), as well as for distributed/decentralised power generation as in backup gensets, or in remote locations, or along with hybrid solar/wind smart grid solutions. While there have been several improved combustors designs recently, this project aims to further improve these metrics with a design that uses additive manufacturing technology and non-intrusive laser diagnostics. The project team has successfully completed testing three 8-cup full annular combustor configurations. The results show the feasibility of 30% reduction in length of a conventional rich burn combustor. Currently, the team is focussing on the optical diagnostics experiments where laser diagnostics tools are being used to understand the flow physics inside the combustor. These results will help optimize the performance and to probe any further possibilities of length reduction, the professor said. The size and weight of the engine would be the same depending upon how the combustor is designed to fit into the rest of the engine. The weight savings, however, will be on the raw material of fabrication in additive manufacturing. This could lead to a substantial drop in weight, as much as 50% when compared to conventional combustors. Further, Dr Chakravarthy said the additive manufacturing of the combustors which were tested for this project were outsourced to Indian suppliers. These suppliers, he said, were now capable of adapting additive techniques for geometries as complex as combustor domes and liner, which in turn would help in developing the country’s additive manufacturing infrastructure. A special feature of this project is that it marks the first time that a 3D printed full annular combustor was tested at actual turbine conditions in India. The lab, which is housed in the National Centre for Combustion Research and Development (NCCRD) at IIT-M also boasts of being the first in India to have a high pressure optically accessible combustor test rig and state of the art laser diagnostics tools under one roof. IIT-M has an IP rights share with GEITC and expects GEITC to immediately use this in their product. Going forward, Dr Chakravarthy said that if GEITC is not absorbing the technology, for whatever reason, they have the first right of refusal after a lock-in period for IIT-M to commercialise the IP. Commercialization will be in the form of licensing to similar such engine houses as GEITC or to a start-up to develop a product that could be incubated by IIT-M itself
 

Flying Dagger

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While Our Babu's and Gov is busy in dilly dallying around a turbofan engine and investment in it. China has been increasingly spending and trying to grab a Ukraine based engine manufacturer and other arms manufacturing companies. While there is No Indian bid to overtake it . Reliance's Anil Ambani was trying to build up partnership with Ukraine The Rafale fiasco, media glare and the company's financial condition have stalled it.

I wonder what is stopping India from getting stakes in Ukraine based companies who are manufacturer of arms. Ukraine isn't in a strong position financially and we can takeover many of their firms benefitting both parties.
 

Karthi

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While Our Babu's and Gov is busy in dilly dallying around a turbofan engine and investment in it. China has been increasingly spending and trying to grab a Ukraine based engine manufacturer and other arms manufacturing companies. While there is No Indian bid to overtake it . Reliance's Anil Ambani was trying to build up partnership with Ukraine The Rafale fiasco, media glare and the company's financial condition have stalled it.

I wonder what is stopping India from getting stakes in Ukraine based companies who are manufacturer of arms. Ukraine isn't in a strong position financially and we can takeover many of their firms benefitting both parties.
No then how will they get Money from lobbies
 

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