Kaveri Engine

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
4,134
Likes
839
Country flag
Is India's 110kn turbofan engine for amca be a verson of item 30? Just a naive thought....
India's 110kn turbofan engine is supposedly developed based on Kaveri, a 3rd generation engine while item 30 is a genuine 4th generation engine.
 

Kchontha

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
610
Likes
781
Country flag
India's 110kn turbofan engine is supposedly developed based on Kaveri, a 3rd generation engine while item 30 is a genuine 4th generation engine.
Any other specification other than 110 kn of India's turbofan engine like thrust to weight ratio, engine dimension, material to be used etc etc...
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
160
Likes
275
Country flag
Why can't Kaveri K9 not be used in our naval twin engine fighter? Rafale uses M88 with max of 75KN and our Kaveri being fadec can be software tuned to a max of 75KN. It has a problem with sustaining high thrust at 81KN anyway. We could have a medium weight naval fighter. Why no thought is provided for those?
 

Ujjain

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 19, 2019
Messages
152
Likes
391
Country flag
Why can't Kaveri K9 not be used in our naval twin engine fighter? Rafale uses M88 with max of 75KN and our Kaveri being fadec can be software tuned to a max of 75KN. It has a problem with sustaining high thrust at 81KN anyway. We could have a medium weight naval fighter. Why no thought is provided for those?
You are right, but weight of M88 is 900Kg and that of Kaveri is close to 1250Kg. But still I think that we can give it a try, atleast from shore based platform and later when proven can be stationed on AC. Atleast get some data for further improvements and research.
 

no smoking

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 14, 2009
Messages
4,134
Likes
839
Country flag
Why can't Kaveri K9 not be used in our naval twin engine fighter? Rafale uses M88 with max of 75KN and our Kaveri being fadec can be software tuned to a max of 75KN. It has a problem with sustaining high thrust at 81KN anyway. We could have a medium weight naval fighter. Why no thought is provided for those?
Because you can't put a new engine on a naval fighter before it accumulated enough data and experiences in land based fighter, the ocean environment put far bigger challenge to jet engine than the land.
 

airtel

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 25, 2015
Messages
3,142
Likes
6,836
Country flag
India's 110kn turbofan engine is supposedly developed based on Kaveri, a 3rd generation engine while item 30 is a genuine 4th generation engine.
India's 110 kn is not developed yet how can you say that it is a 3rd gen engine ?
Kindly describe other specification of this engine like dry weight , thrust to weight ratio , turbine inlet temperature , length , diameter etc.
 

Rajaraja Chola

Regular Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2016
Messages
160
Likes
275
Country flag
Because you can't put a new engine on a naval fighter before it accumulated enough data and experiences in land based fighter, the ocean environment put far bigger challenge to jet engine than the land.
Rafale M was manufactured first and then Air Force variant of Rafale. So in this case M88 was first tested on Rafale M if I am right. Wiki says the same info.
It's not much, but without testing we will never know.
 

Bajirao

Regular Member
Joined
May 3, 2019
Messages
154
Likes
233
Country flag
India's 110kn turbofan engine is supposedly developed based on Kaveri, a 3rd generation engine while item 30 is a genuine 4th generation engine.
If india devolops it's own 110 kn engine,it will be a clean sheet design...drdo boss himself stated in an interview that drdo moved forward from kaveri,they now see the kaveri project as a tech. demonstrater..
 

Kchontha

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
610
Likes
781
Country flag
Rafale M was manufactured first and then Air Force variant of Rafale. So in this case M88 was first tested on Rafale M if I am right. Wiki says the same info.
It's not much, but without testing we will never know.
For testing turbofan engine like kaberi we need a flying testbed aircraft, without testing its flight-worthyness and maturity on the same for sufficient data collection and analysis you can't just put an engine on a new aircraft. In india if crashes occured in a developing aircraft then whole program would be in jeopardy.
 

Karthi

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2018
Messages
1,063
Likes
4,805
Country flag
Why can't Kaveri K9 not be used in our naval twin engine fighter? Rafale uses M88 with max of 75KN and our Kaveri being fadec can be software tuned to a max of 75KN. It has a problem with sustaining high thrust at 81KN anyway. We could have a medium weight naval fighter. Why no thought is provided for those?

The engine should be reliable , Kaveris performance is very unstable .
 

Kchontha

Regular Member
Joined
May 29, 2017
Messages
610
Likes
781
Country flag
Dry verson of kaberi to power ucav is developing, when matured it will provide the basis for a new engine development. At the same time India should perfect high end matallurgy for engine manufacturing.
 

lcafanboy

Senior Member
Joined
Mar 24, 2013
Messages
3,498
Likes
11,771
Country flag
GTRE's INTEGRATED FATIGUE LIFE COUNTER

Provides a solution for continuous monitoring of fatigue and creep life consumption of critical engine parts.

Right pointing backhand indexLife consumption monitoring under
Black small squareLow Cycle Fatigue
Black small squareHigh Cycle Fatigue
Black small squareCreep
 

WolfPack86

Senior Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2015
Messages
7,226
Likes
9,233
Country flag
Need for Indigenous Jet engine grows louder as India now has 4 fighter jet program

India has given Clearance to start Country’s fourth active fighter jet project recently which too will be powered by American F-414 afterburning turbofan engine, making it India’s third jet to be powered by an American engine made by General Electric company. India’s Tejas Mk1A jets will be powered by F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines and Mk2 and TEDBF will be powered by F414-GE-INS6 engines. IAF and Indian Navy will be looking at 300+ Jets which will be powered by American engines and equipping nearly 40% of your fighter jet fleet from a single-source vendor is also gamble which can backfire on India if the country doesn’t work in developing alternative engines for this fleet. Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria in recent media interview urged DRDO to develop a local engine with a foreign vendor and is it likely Defence ministry too will agree to fast track successor to the Kaveri program soon even though previous talks with French and American engine tech giant have failed to conclude a joint venture proposal. Developing modern-day afterburning engines is not easy but Japan has shown the way by successfully developing the XF9-1 engine which will be used to power its 5th Generation fighter jet even though the plane is still in the drawing board. IAF has allowed DRDO to use F414-GE-INS6 engines on the first 40 AMCA Mk1 jets produced which again shows India’s dependence on American single-source vendor. India needs to start investing in the development of local engines soon so that technology is matured in the next 10-15 years and is ready to enter production for the AMCA fleet and later be used to replace engines from Tejas Mk1A, Mk2, and TEDBF fleet.
 

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
424
Likes
1,191
Country flag
Need for Indigenous Jet engine grows louder as India now has 4 fighter jet program

India has given Clearance to start Country’s fourth active fighter jet project recently which too will be powered by American F-414 afterburning turbofan engine, making it India’s third jet to be powered by an American engine made by General Electric company. India’s Tejas Mk1A jets will be powered by F404-GE-IN20 afterburning engines and Mk2 and TEDBF will be powered by F414-GE-INS6 engines. IAF and Indian Navy will be looking at 300+ Jets which will be powered by American engines and equipping nearly 40% of your fighter jet fleet from a single-source vendor is also gamble which can backfire on India if the country doesn’t work in developing alternative engines for this fleet. Air Chief Marshal R.K.S. Bhadauria in recent media interview urged DRDO to develop a local engine with a foreign vendor and is it likely Defence ministry too will agree to fast track successor to the Kaveri program soon even though previous talks with French and American engine tech giant have failed to conclude a joint venture proposal. Developing modern-day afterburning engines is not easy but Japan has shown the way by successfully developing the XF9-1 engine which will be used to power its 5th Generation fighter jet even though the plane is still in the drawing board. IAF has allowed DRDO to use F414-GE-INS6 engines on the first 40 AMCA Mk1 jets produced which again shows India’s dependence on American single-source vendor. India needs to start investing in the development of local engines soon so that technology is matured in the next 10-15 years and is ready to enter production for the AMCA fleet and later be used to replace engines from Tejas Mk1A, Mk2, and TEDBF fleet.
We have been manufacturing Sukhoi engines from so many years, not one initiative taken either by HAL or IAF or govt to start a project to inspect the Su30 engine and reverse engineer missing pieces of technology and incorporate it into Kaveri. Heck we had a golden opportunity when Boris Yeltsin had begged us to buy Sukhoi from the debt laden ex USSR to force them to ToT us the engine or no deal. Our politicians are such dumbasses that they don’t know how a simple deal should be done !
 

aerokan

Regular Member
Joined
Nov 20, 2011
Messages
953
Likes
634
Country flag
We have been manufacturing Sukhoi engines from so many years, not one initiative taken either by HAL or IAF or govt to start a project to inspect the Su30 engine and reverse engineer missing pieces of technology and incorporate it into Kaveri. Heck we had a golden opportunity when Boris Yeltsin had begged us to buy Sukhoi from the debt laden ex USSR to force them to ToT us the engine or no deal. Our politicians are such dumbasses that they don’t know how a simple deal should be done !
Even now the govt wants an assurance that they can complete the smaller engines when asked for a new engine approval. Guess we never learned from the Orpheous engine debacle or from the Kaveri program either.
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
5,168
Likes
7,997
Country flag
Why can't Kaveri K9 not be used in our naval twin engine fighter? Rafale uses M88 with max of 75KN and our Kaveri being fadec can be software tuned to a max of 75KN. It has a problem with sustaining high thrust at 81KN anyway. We could have a medium weight naval fighter. Why no thought is provided for those?
Because Kaveri can't sustain the thrust. A engine which can't sustain thrust is of no good.
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
5,168
Likes
7,997
Country flag
We have been manufacturing Sukhoi engines from so many years, not one initiative taken either by HAL or IAF or govt to start a project to inspect the Su30 engine and reverse engineer missing pieces of technology and incorporate it into Kaveri. Heck we had a golden opportunity when Boris Yeltsin had begged us to buy Sukhoi from the debt laden ex USSR to force them to ToT us the engine or no deal. Our politicians are such dumbasses that they don’t know how a simple deal should be done !
We do have the know how of the engine. Problem with us had been the metallurgy part. No amount of ToT or reverse engineering could help us on that. Look at reverse engineering champs China.
 

samsaptaka

तस्मात् उत्तिष्ठ कौन्तेय युद्धाय कृतनिष्चय
Regular Member
Joined
Aug 15, 2016
Messages
424
Likes
1,191
Country flag
We do have the know how of the engine. Problem with us had been the metallurgy part. No amount of ToT or reverse engineering could help us on that. Look at reverse engineering champs China.
Hence the need was to force them ruskies to part with the tech when concluding the deal ! But split milk as they say.....
 

Chinmoy

Senior Member
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
5,168
Likes
7,997
Country flag
Hence the need was to force them ruskies to part with the tech when concluding the deal ! But split milk as they say.....
You mean to say that force Russkies to give you metallurgical know how?
Something on which people invest billions of dollars & you think they would give that to you on a platter for few dollars?
 

Global Defence

New threads

Articles

Top