Kaveri Engine

[Bhurki]

HAL HTFE-25 seems to be perfect fit for Jaguar.

You do know 25 in 'htfe 25' stands for 25 kn?What makes you so confident that an engine that the manufacturer itself says is for trainer jets will power a 'striker' jet?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

You do know 25 in 'htfe 25' stands for 25 kn?What makes you so confident that an engine that the manufacturer itself says is for trainer jets will power a 'striker' jet?

HAL is asking for funds to make a reheat version of HTFE-25.

 

[Bhurki]

HAL is asking for funds to make a reheat version of HTFE-25.

So, until they get funds, then do r&d to integrate afterburner and testing, not to mention aircraft integration, the entire jaguar fleet is supposed to be just obsolete?

Re engining requirement has been present since 2008 when average airframe life was over 50% of technical life.

Considering it takes 3-4 years to operationalize that engine, the entire fleet will have less than a decade of airframe life left. What man, in his right mind, would allow the cost of re engining at that point?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

So, until they get funds, then do r&d to integrate afterburner and testing, not to mention aircraft integration, the entire jaguar fleet is supposed to be just obsolete?

Re engining requirement has been present since 2008 when average airframe life was over 50% of technical life.

Considering it takes 3-4 years to operationalize that engine, the entire fleet will have less than a decade of airframe life left. What man, in his right mind, would allow the cost of re engining at that point?

Generating engine is a capability itself countries like Russia US UK have tons of different engines with different types of usability.
this guy is saying that if government allows then HTFE-25 can be also equipped with after burner. That's it. Updating it with American engine is also equally pathetic.
I agree with you IAF and it's plans lack future vision they have come to point when induction rate is pathetic and decommission is fast.

Anyways jaguar is a obsolete machine.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

HAL HTFE-25 seems to be perfect fit for Jaguar.

Sorry, I meant HAL HTFE-40. That would be a good engine option for the Jaguar

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

Generating engine is a capability itself countries like Russia US UK have tons of different engines with different types of usability.
this guy is saying that if government allows then HTFE-25 can be also equipped with after burner. That's it. Updating it with American engine is also equally pathetic.
I agree with you IAF and it's plans lack future vision they have come to point when induction rate is pathetic and decommission is fast.

Anyways jaguar is a obsolete machine.

Jaguar might be obselete but can perform its role as a bomb truck once the enemy air defences are supressed. Also it serves a deep nuclear strike platform for the IAF

 

[Bhurki]

Jaguar might be obselete but can perform its role as a bomb truck once the enemy air defences are supressed. Also it serves a deep nuclear strike platform for the IAF

Again,
It has only 6 tons of thrust. Completely fueled it will stand close to 12 tons. It probably can't carry anymore than 2 tons of armament for safe flight at this point.

This is what the pilots say about it -
'Jaguar’s current engines are so underpowered that the fighter only gets airborne because the earth is round – and its curvature makes the ground drop away beneath the moving aircraft.'

 

[Assassin 2.0]

IAF to add clause on local engines for AMCA fighters
The assessment within the Indian establishment is that engine technologies needed for future aircraft are available with nations like France, UK and the US. The Indian side is also keen not to repeat a deficiency in the Chinese weapons development...
By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Jan 08, 2020, 11.32 PM IST

BCCL
Representative Image
NEW DELHI: The air force is likely to insist on a clause for development of an indigenous aero engine when it clears a multi-billion dollar programme to go ahead with the next generation Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA) by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The fighters – expected to take to the skies by 2026 as per current projects – are being planned to substitute costly imports of combat aircraft in the future, with the air force keen that a home grown engine be developed for true self dependence.
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Sources said that while the first two squadrons of the AMCA will be powered by a variant of American origin GE 414 engine, the project will be clearing in the coming months on the condition that a parallel process be initiated by DRDO to develop a aero engine plant with foreign collaboration. “A clear path towards developing our own aero engine is essential and should be done along the AMCA programme which is being supported. If needed, foreign collaboration from western nations that have advanced technologies can be sought,” senior officials told ET.
The assessment within the Indian establishment is that engine technologies needed for future aircraft are available with nations like France, UK and the US while traditional ally Russia has lagged behind in the field. The Indian side is also keen not to repeat a deficiency in the Chinese weapons development programme where the lack of a reliable aero engine programme is seen as an impediment.
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As reported by ET, the DRDO has carried out preliminary designs for the AMCA and is confident that it will be in a position to roll out the first test fighter within five years of the project receiving the next stage of financial sanction that is pegged around $ 1billion. The air force has put its weight behind the project as well, along with the Light Combat Aircraft. In comments preceding the air force day, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria had said that “on the fifth generation (requirement), the AMCA has been given a go ahead and we have given it our whole support and are putting in our energies there” and that no imports were planned in the foreseeable future.
Plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal have not taken off, even though presentations have been made by the French side on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India. Similarly, a plan to share jet engine technology under the US-India Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) has been suspended last year after little progress was made by the two sides after detailed discussions.

 

[cyclops]

Plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal have not taken off, even though presentations have been made by the French side on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India. Similarly, a plan to share jet engine technology under the US-India Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) has been suspended last year after little progress was made by the two sides after detailed discussions.

.................................................................................

 

[Chinmoy]

IAF to add clause on local engines for AMCA fighters
The assessment within the Indian establishment is that engine technologies needed for future aircraft are available with nations like France, UK and the US. The Indian side is also keen not to repeat a deficiency in the Chinese weapons development...
By Manu Pubby, ET Bureau | Jan 08, 2020, 11.32 PM IST

BCCL
Representative Image
NEW DELHI: The air force is likely to insist on a clause for development of an indigenous aero engine when it clears a multi-billion dollar programme to go ahead with the next generation Advanced Multirole Combat Aircraft (AMCA) by the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO).
The fighters – expected to take to the skies by 2026 as per current projects – are being planned to substitute costly imports of combat aircraft in the future, with the air force keen that a home grown engine be developed for true self dependence.
ADVERTISEMENT

ET Prime
UNDER THE LENS
The CEO's pay cheque is under scrutiny
Sources said that while the first two squadrons of the AMCA will be powered by a variant of American origin GE 414 engine, the project will be clearing in the coming months on the condition that a parallel process be initiated by DRDO to develop a aero engine plant with foreign collaboration. “A clear path towards developing our own aero engine is essential and should be done along the AMCA programme which is being supported. If needed, foreign collaboration from western nations that have advanced technologies can be sought,” senior officials told ET.
The assessment within the Indian establishment is that engine technologies needed for future aircraft are available with nations like France, UK and the US while traditional ally Russia has lagged behind in the field. The Indian side is also keen not to repeat a deficiency in the Chinese weapons development programme where the lack of a reliable aero engine programme is seen as an impediment.
ADVERTISEMENT

As reported by ET, the DRDO has carried out preliminary designs for the AMCA and is confident that it will be in a position to roll out the first test fighter within five years of the project receiving the next stage of financial sanction that is pegged around $ 1billion. The air force has put its weight behind the project as well, along with the Light Combat Aircraft. In comments preceding the air force day, Air Chief Marshal RKS Bhadauria had said that “on the fifth generation (requirement), the AMCA has been given a go ahead and we have given it our whole support and are putting in our energies there” and that no imports were planned in the foreseeable future.
Plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal have not taken off, even though presentations have been made by the French side on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India. Similarly, a plan to share jet engine technology under the US-India Defense Technology and Trade Initiative (DTTI) has been suspended last year after little progress was made by the two sides after detailed discussions.

When Vishnu Som said that first flight of AMCA would be in 2040, he was not wrong it seems.

 

[Defcon 1]

When Vishnu Som said that first flight of AMCA would be in 2040, he was not wrong it seems.

First flight of AMCA will be with F414 engine. Neverthless, I have full confidence that DRDO will still manage to push AMCA first flight date to 2040.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I think AMCA will be able to fly between 2030-2035. With GE engines after 2025 their will be big boost in R&D budget.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

China still struggling to develop new military turbofan engines
A regulator stock exchange filing by the Hebei subsidiary of China’s Central Iron & Steel Research (CISRI) has disclosed the production numbers of military engines for the next decade.



Data provided by Hebei Cisri Dekai Technology Co. Ltd. shows a maximum of only five WS-15 and WS-19 engines each year from 2020 till 2026. The WS-15 will power the J-20 stealth fighter while the WS-19 is being develop for the FC-31 fighter.



The WS-18 engine is running into trouble with development half suspended as the company research into new materials. The WS-18 is designed for the H-6K bomber and Y-20 airlifter.



Another alternative engine for the Y-20, the WS-20 will also enter limited production starting from 2024.



The WS-10, which powers the J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16 fighters is having a successful production run. The company sees gradual increase in annual production numbers starting from 320 engines in 2020 till 450 engines by 2026.



The PLA is expected to induct a large number of Z-20 utility helicopters into service in the next decade as demands for the WZ-10 turboshaft engine is being increased from 65 for 2020 till 205 engines each year by 2026.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

India should also setup multiple teams to develop multiple engines just like what Chinese are doing. We should also push at least some effort to develop heavy airliner engines and for strategic bombers.

 

[Aniruddha Mulay]

India should also setup multiple teams to develop multiple engines just like what Chinese are doing. We should also push at least some effort to develop heavy airliner engines and for strategic bombers.

Atleast 2 R&D centres should be setup for engine development. Recently 5 new DRDO labs were setup, one of the new lab should be dedicated for engine development.
Similar to the ATV project, the Kaveri engine development should recieve adequate funds.
Pour in $10 billion and we will see the difference.

 

[Hari Sud]

China still struggling to develop new military turbofan engines
A regulator stock exchange filing by the Hebei subsidiary of China’s Central Iron & Steel Research (CISRI) has disclosed the production numbers of military engines for the next decade.



Data provided by Hebei Cisri Dekai Technology Co. Ltd. shows a maximum of only five WS-15 and WS-19 engines each year from 2020 till 2026. The WS-15 will power the J-20 stealth fighter while the WS-19 is being develop for the FC-31 fighter.



The WS-18 engine is running into trouble with development half suspended as the company research into new materials. The WS-18 is designed for the H-6K bomber and Y-20 airlifter.



Another alternative engine for the Y-20, the WS-20 will also enter limited production starting from 2024.



The WS-10, which powers the J-10, J-11, J-15, J-16 fighters is having a successful production run. The company sees gradual increase in annual production numbers starting from 320 engines in 2020 till 450 engines by 2026.



The PLA is expected to induct a large number of Z-20 utility helicopters into service in the next decade as demands for the WZ-10 turboshaft engine is being increased from 65 for 2020 till 205 engines each year by 2026.

Can we not become Chinese propaganda forum. They can publish all this in The People’s Daily and ot Global Times. This is India Defence Forum and should stay like that.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Can we not become Chinese propaganda forum. They can publish all this in The People’s Daily and ot Global Times. This is India Defence Forum and should stay like that.

This is not a propaganda Chinese and india both started jet engine approx at the same biggest concern from that development is for india only.

Many times i have seen articles from former IAF veterans claiming how Chinese development threatens india and sometimes claiming that we can actually take a lead against Chinese if we are able to build jet engine like kaveri which is upto western standards when completed .

I posted this Because i thought that just like Chinese we should also have multiple companies and programs working on different types of engines.

 

[Hari Sud]

This is not a propaganda Chinese and india both started jet engine approx at the same biggest concern from that development is for india only.

Many times i have seen articles from former IAF veterans claiming how Chinese development threatens india and sometimes claiming that we can actually take a lead against Chinese if we are able to build jet engine like kaveri which is upto western standards when completed .

I posted this Because i thought that just like Chinese we should also have multiple companies and programs working on different types of engines.

This is what propaganda is all about.i

 

[cyclops]

Atleast 2 R&D centres should be setup for engine development. Recently 5 new DRDO labs were setup, one of the new lab should be dedicated for engine development.
Similar to the ATV project, the Kaveri engine development should recieve adequate funds.
Pour in $10 billion and we will see the difference.

Absolutely, GTRE doesn't even have flying test beds to test the said powerplants.
Hell, they don't even have various types of ground based testing facilities.

Only a year or 2 back did I see DRDO float an international tender for building some high-altitude testing facility.

The fact that Kaveri even got to where it is within the $1 billion or so of funding from the centre is a miracle in itself.

IMO, 10th pass lawmakers shouldn't be allowed to control the budget of high tech clusters like GTRE.

Ye aloo pyaaz nahin kharid rahe ho, ke aabhi 80 rupiah jebb se nikaala aur aabhi ke aabhi low bypass turbofan plastic mein pack karke mill gayi, aur zyada daam dikhi toh gussa ho kar mooh utha kar nikal liye.

 

[Hari Sud]

Absolutely, GTRE doesn't even have flying test beds to test the said powerplants.
Hell, they don't even have various types of ground based testing facilities.

Only a year or 2 back did I see DRDO float an international tender for building some high-altitude testing facility.

The fact that Kaveri even got to where it is within the $1 billion or so of funding from the centre is a miracle in itself.

IMO, 10th pass lawmakers shouldn't be allowed to control the budget of high tech clusters like GTRE.

Ye aloo pyaaz nahin kharid rahe ho, ke aabhi 80 rupiah jebb se nikaala aur aabhi ke aabhi low bypass turbofan plastic mein pack karke mill gayi, aur zyada daam dikhi toh gussa ho kar mooh utha kar nikal liye.

$10 billion is too much. As the French wanted a billion to modify the core and rest for the work the Indian scientists can undertake.