Kaveri Engine

[IndianHawk]

It's high time we take engines seriously .
Lack of indigenous engine is the biggest roadblock of modern industrialization of nation.

all engine development should be given national priority and be directly funded and monitored by PM on mission mode. And that includes all engines ( aero engine turbofan / turboshaft , engine for tanks and trucks and engine for missiles . )

 

[Akula]

It's high time we take engines seriously .
Lack of indigenous engine is the biggest roadblock of modern industrialization of nation.

all engine development should be given national priority and be directly funded and monitored by PM on mission mode. And that includes all engines ( aero engine turbofan / turboshaft , engine for tanks and trucks and engine for missiles . )

Plus marine engines for Navy's ships.

 

[IndianHawk]

Plus marine engines for Navy's ships.

Yes all kinds of engines. All basic engine labs , test beds etc must be under it. Sort of like integrated missile development program which delivered pritvi Agni etc .

They must also transfer know how to private sector to help develop indeginious electric engine for automobiles so that future foreign dependence is avoided in private sector too.

 

[captscooby81]

Just asking

If american put sanctions on India for S-400 purchase will that also stop supply/sale of Defence equipment to us ?

Like what will happen to Tejas if America puts ban on sale of GE F404/414 Engines on the basis of sanction ?

I think its time we pay the money safran is asking for rectifying Kaveri and just move ahead .

If democrats come back to power relationship between India and US won't be any comfortable ones

 

[patriots]

Just asking

If american put sanctions on India for S-400 purchase will that also stop supply/sale of Defence equipment to us ?

Like what will happen to Tejas if America puts ban on sale of GE F404/414 Engines on the basis of sanction ?

I think its time we pay the money safran is asking for rectifying Kaveri and just move ahead .

If democrats come back to power relationship between India and US won't be any comfortable ones

If USA put sanctions .....

Then it will be a boon for Indin defence..
Lch will be ordered in large no
And drdo may be forced to pay Safran ..to revive Kaveri
Bdw Safran is demanding more

 

[Bhurki]

Like what will happen to Tejas if America puts ban on sale of GE F404/414 Engines on the basis of sanction ?

Atleast for the next decade , the entire Indian mfg line for aircraft will be f*cked.

I see people saying it'll be a good thing that indigenous engine prog will be boosted, but it wont exactly be usable from get go.
Neither will be snecma engines since complete redesign will be required to accomo those engines.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

If US blocks sales and maintenance of GE engine then with several modification we will be forced to Use AL-31FN or updated M-88.

 

[Bhurki]

If US blocks sales and maintenance of GE engine then with several modification we will be forced to Use AL-31F or updated M-88.

Both of these engines are in different classes as compared to F404/414.
There's literally no way you can modify a jet to be powered by such different sizes.
If you hope to employ these engines, it needs to be set within the design phase of an aircraft.

 

[IndianHawk]

Just asking

If american put sanctions on India for S-400 purchase will that also stop supply/sale of Defence equipment to us ?

Like what will happen to Tejas if America puts ban on sale of GE F404/414 Engines on the basis of sanction ?

I think its time we pay the money safran is asking for rectifying Kaveri and just move ahead .

If democrats come back to power relationship between India and US won't be any comfortable ones

It will screw up few years of production schedule while we either revive Kaveri fast or directly use m88 for mwf/amca mk1.

But for USA it will screw up any future military sales to india . That will be a loss of billions and billions . Democrats nor republicans can afford such a loss of export and influence.

 

[IndianHawk]

Both of these engines are in different classes as compared to F404/414.
There's literally no way you can modify a jet to be powered by such different sizes.
If you hope to employ these engines, it needs to be set within the design phase of an aircraft.

Al41 is different. M88 and f404/414 are quite similar in dimensions. In fact rafale prototype used f404 before graduating to m88.

Only problem with using m88 is that it will provide lower thrust then f414 and of course a lot of testing will add 3-4 years delay.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Both of these engines are in different classes as compared to F404/414.
There's literally no way you can modify a jet to be powered by such different sizes.
If you hope to employ these engines, it needs to be set within the design phase of an aircraft.

What about AL-31FN?

J-10A is powered by a single Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine giving a maximum static thrust of 12,500 kgf (123 kN).[23] The AL-31FN is based on the AL-31F which was designed for a twin engine aircraft such as the Su-27, to fit the smaller J-10 the engine parts have been moved and re-designed to fit the smaller engine bay in the J-10.

 

[IndianHawk]

What about AL-31FN?

J-10A is powered by a single Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine giving a maximum static thrust of 12,500 kgf (123 kN).[23] The AL-31FN is based on the AL-31F which was designed for a twin engine aircraft such as the Su-27, to fit the smaller J-10 the engine parts have been moved and re-designed to fit the smaller engine bay in the J-10.

Al31 won't do dimensions are different. J10 was designed for those dimensions.

Similar engine to f414/404 size are m88 / Kaveri and probably ej200.

 

[Bhurki]

What about AL-31FN?

J-10A is powered by a single Russian Lyulka-Saturn AL-31FN turbofan engine giving a maximum static thrust of 12,500 kgf (123 kN).[23] The AL-31FN is based on the AL-31F which was designed for a twin engine aircraft such as the Su-27, to fit the smaller J-10 the engine parts have been moved and re-designed to fit the smaller engine bay in the J-10.

IAF doesn't have the J10, does it?
I thought you were expecting tejas to fly with either Al31 or M88, thats what i answered for.

 

[Bhurki]

Only problem with using m88 is that it will provide lower thrust then f414 and of course a lot of testing will add 3-4 years delay.

You answered yourselves...............

 

[IndianHawk]

• Length: 353.8 cm (139.3 in)
• Diameter: 69.6 cm (27.4 in)
• Dry weight: 897 kg (1,978 lb)

Above are m88 dimensions. Thust is 50kn dry 75kn wet.

Below are f414 stats

• Length: 154 in (391 cm)
• Diameter: 35 in (89 cm)
• Dry weight: 2,445 lb (1,110 kg) max weight

Thrust is 58 kn dry 98 kn wet.

So m88 is bit smaller but thrusts is too low. Even Kaveri can match that thrust.

Now look at ej200

• Length: 398.7 cm (157.0 in)
• Diameter: 73.7 cm (29.0 in)
• Dry weight: 990 kg (2,180 lb)

Thrust is 60kn dry 90kn wet.

So ej200 is better compromise unless an upgraded m88 is provided or Kaveri manages 90 kn + somehow.

 

[IndianHawk]

You answered yourselves...............

Yes but it will be necessary if USA pulls the plug. Not much options there .

 

[Bhurki]

But for USA it will screw up any future military sales to india . That will be a loss of billions and billions . Democrats nor republicans can afford such a loss of export and influence.

Not to be disrespectful and all. But US has way more leverage on India than vice versa.
I mean, India is still importing items like M777 which are not exactly cutting edge and even shells like excalibur etc, not to mention K9 thunder which is based on US
M109 which is decades old.
I lot of work is required before MIC can become independent.

 

[Bhurki]

So m88 is bit smaller

A bit smaller ?!?!
Dude, look at those specs.
Those are huge differences.

Its tough even to upgrade F404 jets to F414 and those 2 are basically the thing, except for an extra 2.5 inches and a spool fan.
Let alone entirely different classes of engines.

 

[IndianHawk]

Not to be disrespectful and all. But US has way more leverage on India than vice versa.
I mean, India is still importing items like M777 which are not exactly cutting edge and even shells like excalibur etc, not to mention K9 thunder which is based on US
M109 which is decades old.
I lot of work is required before MIC can become independent.

I was saying if USA stops f414 to india it will create distrust. We won't be buying anymore USA equipment as we won't be able to trust USA with delivery and support.

USA will lose arms sell to Russia/ France etc .

 

[IndianHawk]

A bit smaller ?!?!
Dude, look at those specs.
Those are huge differences.

Smaller engine can be accommodated in place of large engine not vice versa. It also weights less.

French successfully replaced f404 with m88 for rafale. It's doable.