Kaveri Engine

[no smoking]

• Firstly, I did not make it up, it was all over Weibo until the censors scrubbed it.

Really? Such a big news was not even picked up by any reliable west blog or online news but you? Or are you suggesting that Chinese censors also cover western internet community?

Secondly, it is basic knowledge China has the worst safety record on Earth.

Whether China has the worst safety record on Earth is another topical, it doesn't prove your story. It is a simple physical fact -- people can't put up with the noise and shake of the testing turbofan engine within a closed space.

Thirdly, even Western engines explode. It is no doubt going to be more deadly when an experimental Chinese engine does it.

Again, the so called engine explosion we saw is not engine itslef but the fuel tank. There is not fuel tank besides the testing turbofan engine. Learn some basic knowledge.

Finally, the fact you are still using Russian turbofans tells the story.

Again, using Russian engine only tells us that WS-15 is not ready yet, it doesn't prove that most of Chinese engineers were killed by WS-15.

All these only prove one thing: you just pull this story from your back side.

 

[ersakthivel]

MY thoughs on kaveri jv in


#kaverijetengine

#SafranGtreKaveriJetEngine

hashtags

 

[ersakthivel]

If we have perfected LZ-YSZ coatings fr TBC

then there should be no issues with core , other than multi pass laser hole drilling ,

Then why there is no PIB release , notifying these milestones? or GTRE press conferences to say the same,

WHat happened to the reports of Safran saying kaveri is flight worthy, after auditing it?

why they cant get a mig29 to replace one engine with Kaveri & flight test it?

Or atleast put it on Tejas PV to do high speed taxi trials on the runway??

Then why FRench JV is sought with safran.?

mystifying developments

Are there any other technical issues still to be resolved?

 

[Assassin 2.0]

I think something big is going to happen with Kaveri engine.

 

[Flying Dagger]

This is doing rounds for years but nothing concrete came out. Oh man disgusting state of affairs I really doubt they will be able to bring an engine for AMCA in its lifetime by this snail pace.

I think something big is going to happen with Kaveri engine.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

This is doing rounds for years but nothing concrete came out. Oh man disgusting state of affairs I really doubt they will be able to bring an engine for AMCA in its lifetime by this snail pace.

Previous years there was congress in power. Seeing spirit of IAF and armed forces and government for indigenous development this time it looks like they are serious.

In recent rajya sabha tv episode experts were saying development and getting technology for jet engine is not a joke government should not cry for some billion and should push forward for development.

 

[HariPrasad-1]

#France makes move to revive Kaveri Jet Engine Project

.

France has made fresh efforts to revive plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal, with a briefing for the project made to defence minister Rajnath Singh during his visit this week.

A detailed presentation on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India was given to the minister who had gone for the handing over ceremony of the Rafale fighter jets. French engine manufacturer Safran, which makes the engines and electronics for the Rafale fighters, pitched its proposal for the co-development of the Kaveri engine for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program.

According to sources, the French side emphasised that India was the only country to which such advanced technology transfer was being offered and that the country would achieve ‘sovereignty’ on aero engine tech.

The French side also pledged to transfer more work for the production of the M 88 engine that powers its fighter jets to India if orders for more of the combat aircraft are received. “If India orders 36 more Rafale jets, more engine parts would be made in India to meet offset conditions,” sources aware of the briefing said.

As reported by ET, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology fell through after the Indian side found the pricing prohibitive.

Talks hit a roadblock after it emerged that only a part of the offsets — just over Euro 250 million — could be utilised for the projects and that Defence Research and Development Organisation would have had to provide the remaining Euro 500 million.

The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets are likely to be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric. India also has a plan for a next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) but it is still in the design phase.

Estimates shows that for a fleet of 200 LCAs, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of Euro 25 billion over the lifecycle of the planes.
.https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

We have made many such strategic mistakes in the past by avoiding attractive offers of joint venture or technology transfer. I hope that we will not repeat such stupid mistakes once again and accept the offer of the Franc. Bloody we can produce 25 billion dollars of goods at home by spending 1 billion dollar for the joint development

 

[Armand2REP]

I think something big is going to happen with Kaveri engine.

MoD just doesn't want to give that amount of offset credit for Safran to do this project. Safran wants $1 billion in credits and MoD only wants to provide $250m, Safran came back willing to only accept $250m offset but MoD would need to pay $500 million. MoD has not come back with a counter offer.

 

[Chinmoy]

MoD just doesn't want to give that amount of offset credit for Safran to do this project. Safran wants $1 billion in credits and MoD only wants to provide $250m, Safran came back willing to only accept $250m offset but MoD would need to pay $500 million. MoD has not come back with a counter offer.

Factually incorrect. In 2017 it has been decided that a investment of $1Bn would be made on Kaveri project. DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelize the offset from Rafale deal. It means under the contract Safran has to invest 50% of the deal i.e. $500mn in Kaveri.
Everything went well till 2018 till when Safran has already invested 250mn in the project. After that they stopped it and asked DRDO to invest the rest 250mn, i.e, 750mn, which DRDO eventually declined and the project gone cold.

 

[power_monger]

Where did safran invest 250 million dollars ?I think it was still in discussion only. Safran had spent only 5 million on audit of Kaveri engine.

 

[Armand2REP]

Factually incorrect. In 2017 it has been decided that a investment of $1Bn would be made on Kaveri project. DRDO has been given a virtual carte blanche to channelize the offset from Rafale deal. It means under the contract Safran has to invest 50% of the deal i.e. $500mn in Kaveri.
Everything went well till 2018 till when Safran has already invested 250mn in the project. After that they stopped it and asked DRDO to invest the rest 250mn, i.e, 750mn, which DRDO eventually declined and the project gone cold.

The process never got that far as an initial $250m investment would mean a contract had been signed. MoD would not reneg on a contract with Safran. It never got past negotiation and feasibility stage. Safran values the job at $1 billion worth of offsets or $750 million cash. Safran offered something in between, MoD still didn't like the offer. Offset credits are not worth cash at face value.

 

[Filtercoffee]

We should go with GE to uprate Kaveri, as the Kaveri is going to be used to replace or complement 404/414 on the Indigenous projects for HAL. It is a waste of time in calling for another vendor when the only one which is really helping, testing and maintaining which is GE, is ready to do it. We would never use them if there was a 'clause'. Again 'khichadi' mentality is on every official's horizon.

 

[amit19]

We should go with GE to uprate Kaveri

what is this man.

We are on the right track of Safran DRDO Kaveri project. Things are closing up to cross finish line. A little hurdler to cross. Am sure NaMo Doval and company will make it.

missing Parrikar ji though.

 

[Armand2REP]

We would never use them if there was a 'clause'.

By the very fact of ordering them you agreed to their ITAR controls. If India does one thing out of line of US foreign policy they can cancel export licenses on a whim.

 

[Filtercoffee]

By the very fact of ordering them you agreed to their ITAR controls. If India does one thing out of line of US foreign policy they can cancel export licenses on a whim.

No I have only observed and stated what is posted by some participants, It was observed that it wont be a problem by me, it is an opinion that it is what they are doing with the engines and later once the GTX 35VS is up-rated, with its future Marks cleared with 110 KN thrust with only GE helping us and not any other vendor. For me It will be read by you, that they are not controlling and I thought that they wont interfere, I wishfully thought it may be and I was really hoping it is, but if you say they will, then I will believe you due to greater knowledge know by you as you are a veteran member.

 

[Chinmoy]

The process never got that far as an initial $250m investment would mean a contract had been signed. MoD would not reneg on a contract with Safran. It never got past negotiation and feasibility stage. Safran values the job at $1 billion worth of offsets or $750 million cash. Safran offered something in between, MoD still didn't like the offer. Offset credits are not worth cash at face value.

The project study case was completed from where Safran decided that they cant invest more then $250mn on the project and asked DRDO to invest the rest.

I would not blame Safran on this because what DRDO wanted is a complete new engine instead of the Safranised Kaveri which was on board.

 

[sayareakd]

I don't know much into engines, except that is most important part, we need to crack it fast, we need to put tons of money into this, plus put best brains in the country to work it out, then we need to make 5-6g super cruise engine from it.

If you want to take on 2 front war, be on the curve on cutting edge technology in coming decades, this is what you need to do.

 

[Holy Triad]

Well, in recent months @delhidefence has gone into the issue of precisely where India stands at the moment with respect to jet engine development. Significant progress has been made in some areas such as TBC etc. I'll return with a set of articles on this issue.


If our labs mastered the "art of thermal coating" then we should focus on funding our local labs rather than waiting for the goras to the rescue...

It may take few extra years,but on the plus side we will not be hemorrhaging money to a foreign country

 

[power_monger]

The project study case was completed from where Safran decided that they cant invest more then $250mn on the project and asked DRDO to invest the rest.

I would not blame Safran on this because what DRDO wanted is a complete new engine instead of the Safranised Kaveri which was on board.

DRDO did not want safranised Kaveri. Long back when DRDO put this offer of snecma core on Kaveri engine, air force had rejected it asking gtre to indigenize it.

What DRDO wanted now to help rectifying Kaveri engine. It was never about replacing snecma core into Kaveri. In fact extending core is not easy and its effort is almost like a new engine .

Anyways safran is struggling to fullfil 580 million euro offset amount. Let them figure it out if they don't want to value offset credit as cash value. It's their headache .

Although I wouldn't go far climbing that Kaveri engine is ready, there are enough news going around that we are almost there probably couple of years. They are walking the last mile. That was one of the primary reason why safran who had studied and audited Kaveri engine , has offered us co development of new engine.

I still think safran deal will be no starter as DRDO will demand tot of hot section of engine this time . The saga will run for some time till the steam goes off.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Jet engine technology is a must.....................

I say pay any price to get it. Chinese have spend billions and billions of $ to develop this technology.