Kaveri Engine

[Armand2REP]

May I know which engineering team was killed by what engine accident? Can you please provide your source?

I just wonder how the engine can kill MOST OF THE ENGINEERING TEAM, does the Chinese ask their engineer to fly the J-11 equip with WS-10 prototype?

Chinese sensors have long scrubbed it off of Weibo but it was 2015 during static tests the WS-15 exploded sending shrapnel in every direction. Many of the leading engineers were killed and set the programme back several years.

 

[IndianHawk]

There is no learning from Safran or any other engine manufacturer. The technology you need is not transferable because it is material sciences. If you do not have the materials to make those high temp blades you are never going to develop the engines you need and you can't ToT it because it is a strategic technology no company is allowed to give. The offer from Safran is that they will build the hot section and you can build your engine on top of that. That is the best offer any engine maker can give because they aren't allowed to do more.

It's a good offer for now. I would prefer french engine over American if we can't mature our own I'm time for AMCA.

Regarding material science we have made progress last I checked we have invested into cutting edge processes and can already make blades better than once used in al31 for su30. It might take few more years to reach western level of expertise but we are moving very fast in that direction.

Previously I doubted Indian efforts in engine tech as dreams never matched with fundamental technologies and fundings but now I see tech barriers are being breached . I believe DRDO will deliver 110kn amca by 2035.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

Race is getting hot and hot because of our huge consumption we can strike a better deal. 3-4k engine will be required by india by 2050.

(assembly line = the same work we are doing with AL-31 engines.)

 

[Chinmoy]

Race is getting hot and hot because of our huge consumption we can strike a better deal. 3-4k engine will be required by india by 2050.

(assembly line = the same work we are doing with AL-31 engines.)

There is one more contender in the race.

But overall the JV by Safran would be fruitful for both in my belief.

 

[IndianHawk]

Here is some old discussion regarding engine blade and problems and our tech status.
Credit :: BRF forum discussion.


And funfact is GTRE has core working OK, and has had trouble with LP Compressor and AB system mainly. So I dont see the point in replacing core. What we shud hv gotten from French is SCB. Not the ToT but blades supplied to our design. And help in AB system design.
JayS · Yesterday, 10:46 PM

JayS
I never have seen no reference to SCBs in Kaveri so far, apart from SCBs from DMRL. Kaveri has had DS blades. We do not have technology so far, for TBC coating and laser hole drilling. For that the blades are sent abroad. I cant think why France wouldnt want to mfg scb stock blades for us and supply.
JayS · 12:12 AM



JayS
The process that Russians ToTed is less advanced than even what DMRL has developed. What we were lacking was TBC and laser drilling. Recently we have seen TBC related tender from DMRL, IIRC, indicating some definite progress there.
JayS · 12:15 AM

#JaiShriRam Ramana
France had a close call with DT demanding India buy American for 114. India refused and bought S400. So France owes India one.




JayS
Interestingly HAL's HTSE1200 also have SCB in them. Question is how is HAL making them, or is it Snecma which is supplying them..? Its highly likely that HAL is getting Shakti SCB from Snecma and usi g them in HTSE. I would be surprized to see HAL making those SCB on their own based on Russian ToT. Its definitely a possibility and would be a pleasant surprize if its the case.
JayS· 12:25 AM

JayS
GTRE folks say its ready. Scecma has audited and says its ready for limited flight testing.
JayS· 12:27 AM





JayS
There is a plane for couple of FT campaigns on larger FTB, most likely IL76. I think a tender was out for first one. But my memory is bit hazy on this. The discussion must be there in Kaberi thread. Or Indranil might remember.
JayS· 12:30 AM



#JaiShriRam Ramana
Indranil and your article on MWF and comparison to Grippen being read in high places.
#JaiShriRam Ramana · 12:55 AM

JayS
Good too know. If it makes some. Impression where it matters,nothing like it.
JayS · 1:40 AM

No Jay, I meant the SCBs were almost ready from our labs and it was only a question of jigs. I don't recollect any news after that we made to make the prototype (k9?).

The failure was with the existing blade.. and we were working on the SCB (drdo pub i recollect). BTW, isn't DS the first step to single crystals? The process used by russkies for the AL fps is different? Or we never got this tech from them?

Anyway, I think we were close yp get the 90* bends with SCB (I need tp refer the pub) or something. I vaguely remember zirconium reference..hence the question.
2:43 AM

JayS
DMRL has 2nd Gen SCB. But they can make the stock material. From there to finished blade need two critical. Tech we didnt have, TBC and Laser driling for cooli g holes. Midhani was in process of dev those tech. This is way back in 2017.recently there was a tender for TBC machine setup.
JayS · 5:46 AM

JayS
Russian tech is a bit tedious one, per a DMRL scientist. Western method is better and DMRL has followed the western approach. Also IIRC, Al31 HPT blades have single pass internal cooli g channels. While western scb have multipass. Even DMRL blades are multipass.
JayS · 5:48 AM



JayS
We have couple of small jet engines, PTAE7, Manik which are good for drones. Companies like Poerjet, Kalyani are making micro jets. HTFE25 is there. Kaveri is too tfta for drones.
JayS· 6:17 AM

At IITB, we have now new propulsion lab for SCB research

 

[IndianHawk]

Here is some old discussion regarding engine blade and problems and our tech status.
Credit :: BRF forum discussion.


And funfact is GTRE has core working OK, and has had trouble with LP Compressor and AB system mainly. So I dont see the point in replacing core. What we shud hv gotten from French is SCB. Not the ToT but blades supplied to our design. And help in AB system design.
JayS · Yesterday, 10:46 PM

JayS
I never have seen no reference to SCBs in Kaveri so far, apart from SCBs from DMRL. Kaveri has had DS blades. We do not have technology so far, for TBC coating and laser hole drilling. For that the blades are sent abroad. I cant think why France wouldnt want to mfg scb stock blades for us and supply.
JayS · 12:12 AM



JayS
The process that Russians ToTed is less advanced than even what DMRL has developed. What we were lacking was TBC and laser drilling. Recently we have seen TBC related tender from DMRL, IIRC, indicating some definite progress there.
JayS · 12:15 AM

#JaiShriRam Ramana
France had a close call with DT demanding India buy American for 114. India refused and bought S400. So France owes India one.




JayS
Interestingly HAL's HTSE1200 also have SCB in them. Question is how is HAL making them, or is it Snecma which is supplying them..? Its highly likely that HAL is getting Shakti SCB from Snecma and usi g them in HTSE. I would be surprized to see HAL making those SCB on their own based on Russian ToT. Its definitely a possibility and would be a pleasant surprize if its the case.
JayS· 12:25 AM

JayS
GTRE folks say its ready. Scecma has audited and says its ready for limited flight testing.
JayS· 12:27 AM





JayS
There is a plane for couple of FT campaigns on larger FTB, most likely IL76. I think a tender was out for first one. But my memory is bit hazy on this. The discussion must be there in Kaberi thread. Or Indranil might remember.
JayS· 12:30 AM



#JaiShriRam Ramana
Indranil and your article on MWF and comparison to Grippen being read in high places.
#JaiShriRam Ramana · 12:55 AM

JayS
Good too know. If it makes some. Impression where it matters,nothing like it.
JayS · 1:40 AM

No Jay, I meant the SCBs were almost ready from our labs and it was only a question of jigs. I don't recollect any news after that we made to make the prototype (k9?).

The failure was with the existing blade.. and we were working on the SCB (drdo pub i recollect). BTW, isn't DS the first step to single crystals? The process used by russkies for the AL fps is different? Or we never got this tech from them?

Anyway, I think we were close yp get the 90* bends with SCB (I need tp refer the pub) or something. I vaguely remember zirconium reference..hence the question.
2:43 AM

JayS
DMRL has 2nd Gen SCB. But they can make the stock material. From there to finished blade need two critical. Tech we didnt have, TBC and Laser driling for cooli g holes. Midhani was in process of dev those tech. This is way back in 2017.recently there was a tender for TBC machine setup.
JayS · 5:46 AM

JayS
Russian tech is a bit tedious one, per a DMRL scientist. Western method is better and DMRL has followed the western approach. Also IIRC, Al31 HPT blades have single pass internal cooli g channels. While western scb have multipass. Even DMRL blades are multipass.
JayS · 5:48 AM



JayS
We have couple of small jet engines, PTAE7, Manik which are good for drones. Companies like Poerjet, Kalyani are making micro jets. HTFE25 is there. Kaveri is too tfta for drones.
JayS· 6:17 AM

At IITB, we have now new propulsion lab for SCB research

Above post makes certain things clear.
A) we don't need m88 core . Kaveri core is fine . We need help in LP compressor and AB sanction.

B) we are trying to match western standards of jet engine. DMRL has developed tech level better than what Russia offered with su30 tot.

C) we lacked in tbc and laser drilling but in recent years a lot of funding has gone into those tech with tenders out for cutting edge Machinery.

Now put things into perspective.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

............................................

 

[IndianHawk]

Race is getting hot and hot because of our huge consumption we can strike a better deal. 3-4k engine will be required by india by 2050.

(assembly line = the same work we are doing with AL-31 engines.)

We have two requirements
A) 110+ kn engine for AMCA and mwf( upgrade)
This could be a joint project with France or direct assembly of ge enhanced engine.
B ) revive Kaveri to replace all lca mk/mk1a. This needs to be Indian solution completely with some foreign help

Whoever shall meet those two requirement will win the engine race.

 

[IndianHawk]

TKMB TKMB..................

This is Kaveri engine thread Turks have no business in engine tech.

 

[Assassin 2.0]

This is Kaveri engine thread Turks have no business in engine tech.

Mistakenly posted here. ................

 

[amit19]

Here is some old discussion regarding engine blade and problems and our tech status.
Credit :: BRF forum discussion.


And funfact is GTRE has core working OK, and has had trouble with LP Compressor and AB system mainly. So I dont see the point in replacing core. What we shud hv gotten from French is SCB. Not the ToT but blades supplied to our design. And help in AB system design.
JayS · Yesterday, 10:46 PM

JayS
I never have seen no reference to SCBs in Kaveri so far, apart from SCBs from DMRL. Kaveri has had DS blades. We do not have technology so far, for TBC coating and laser hole drilling. For that the blades are sent abroad. I cant think why France wouldnt want to mfg scb stock blades for us and supply.
JayS · 12:12 AM



JayS
The process that Russians ToTed is less advanced than even what DMRL has developed. What we were lacking was TBC and laser drilling. Recently we have seen TBC related tender from DMRL, IIRC, indicating some definite progress there.
JayS · 12:15 AM

#JaiShriRam Ramana
France had a close call with DT demanding India buy American for 114. India refused and bought S400. So France owes India one.




JayS
Interestingly HAL's HTSE1200 also have SCB in them. Question is how is HAL making them, or is it Snecma which is supplying them..? Its highly likely that HAL is getting Shakti SCB from Snecma and usi g them in HTSE. I would be surprized to see HAL making those SCB on their own based on Russian ToT. Its definitely a possibility and would be a pleasant surprize if its the case.
JayS· 12:25 AM

JayS
GTRE folks say its ready. Scecma has audited and says its ready for limited flight testing.
JayS· 12:27 AM





JayS
There is a plane for couple of FT campaigns on larger FTB, most likely IL76. I think a tender was out for first one. But my memory is bit hazy on this. The discussion must be there in Kaberi thread. Or Indranil might remember.
JayS· 12:30 AM



#JaiShriRam Ramana
Indranil and your article on MWF and comparison to Grippen being read in high places.
#JaiShriRam Ramana · 12:55 AM

JayS
Good too know. If it makes some. Impression where it matters,nothing like it.
JayS · 1:40 AM

No Jay, I meant the SCBs were almost ready from our labs and it was only a question of jigs. I don't recollect any news after that we made to make the prototype (k9?).

The failure was with the existing blade.. and we were working on the SCB (drdo pub i recollect). BTW, isn't DS the first step to single crystals? The process used by russkies for the AL fps is different? Or we never got this tech from them?

Anyway, I think we were close yp get the 90* bends with SCB (I need tp refer the pub) or something. I vaguely remember zirconium reference..hence the question.
2:43 AM

JayS
DMRL has 2nd Gen SCB. But they can make the stock material. From there to finished blade need two critical. Tech we didnt have, TBC and Laser driling for cooli g holes. Midhani was in process of dev those tech. This is way back in 2017.recently there was a tender for TBC machine setup.
JayS · 5:46 AM

JayS
Russian tech is a bit tedious one, per a DMRL scientist. Western method is better and DMRL has followed the western approach. Also IIRC, Al31 HPT blades have single pass internal cooli g channels. While western scb have multipass. Even DMRL blades are multipass.
JayS · 5:48 AM



JayS
We have couple of small jet engines, PTAE7, Manik which are good for drones. Companies like Poerjet, Kalyani are making micro jets. HTFE25 is there. Kaveri is too tfta for drones.
JayS· 6:17 AM

At IITB, we have now new propulsion lab for SCB research

sharing chatter summery from sf forum by Vistol Jockey about Kaveri and other engine projects ... 01-Aug-2018

<>
Kaveri

> The data sheet i posted very much supports the posts of Aashish when he stated that Safran has concluded that Kaveri can hit above 75KN dry and 110Kn wet thrust with modification to core. The present core is capable of withstanding temp upto about 1450*C and to hit 76KN we need a core which can withstand 1650*C temp. third generation SCBs should be able to hit these values and to go beyound we will need ceramics core.

> Kaveri engine in its present form is nearly as sophisticated as M88-2 engine with 60/90 thrust rating. Kaveri is derated by about 13% and weighs about 1050 kgs with a length of 3.9m and a fan dia of under 75cms. the 60/90 Kn version of M88 weighs about 998 kgs with a length of 3.6m and a fan dia meter of nearly 80cms. with such a small inlet dia kaveri has an air flow of 78kgs/sec while M88-2 has 72kgs/sec and Kaveri is more fuel efficient compared to M88-2 0.78kgs vs 0.8kgs SFC in favour of kaveri and Kaveri is variable cycle.

> The problem of afterburner of Kaveri were resolved by extending it further by about 40 cms for gas flow stabilisation. That removed that strange sound when afterburner was lit up. Next step is to increase the pressure ratio to 30 from present 21. Even with a modest 27 ratio, this engine will outperform Ej200 and M88 by large margins in terms of thrust and efficiency. EJ2XX third gen engine is supposed to hit a dry thrust of 78KN while kaveri can do it in its present form with very little help from Safran.

> The present problems of kaveri have been resolved completely in house by GTRE. Safran has only done the audit to certify it. Anykind of tech help from Safran is yet to come. GTRE is now very confident of scaling up or down the engine size for a fixed core but it has no expertise in scaling up or down the core to suit thrust requirements and this is the field they have asked safran for help.

>
The present Kaveri engine is called K8 and being refined to K9 status with Safran help as first stage of JV or offsets. The number after K is the thrust value in 10s of KNs which means that K8=80KN total thrust.
I read a statement recently that GTRE has asked Safran to concentrate on K8 to make it K9 and as second stage go for K10.
Kaveri K10 is what Kaveri in its present state _will_ become. It will be used as *the second engine for MK1A and mainline engine for MK2*. AMCA will have Project Ganga Engine with 125KN thrust.
Every aircraft uses up 2-3 engines in its lifetime so when the present F404 engines come up for replacement, the replacement second engine might be K10. One engine means about 2000hrs of life. This means about 10-12 yrs of flying for an aircraft.
The present engine is under powered for tejas. K10 will be best. Please keep in mind the hot and high conditions typical to India.

</>

 

[IndianHawk]

Kaveri K10 is what Kaveri in its present state _will_ become. It will be used as *the second engine for MK1A and mainline engine for MK2*. AMCA will have Project Ganga Engine with 125KN thrust.
Every aircraft uses up 2-3 engines in its lifetime so when the present F404 engines come up for replacement, the replacement second engine might be K10. One engine means about 2000hrs of life. This means about 10-12 yrs of flying for an aircraft.
The present engine is under powered for tejas. K10 will be best. Please keep in mind the hot and high conditions typical to India.

This seems better description of the direction we are headed.
So k10 will ultimately power mwf with 100-110 kn thrust which is the maximum potential of Kaveri design.

And Ganga engine ( new program ) will target 125 kn for AMCA. This also means that AMCA will be much heavier than previously envisioned.
Near to 30 ton mtow as opposed to 25 ton earlier proposed hence need for a completely new engine.

Also with recent progress in TBC / laser drilling we should be near the third gen SCB tech!!

Or alternatively third gen SCB can directly be imported from France as suggested by jays in my previous post .

All in all there is a strong probability of indegenios / semi indegenios engine which are free from USA tech and sanctions.

 

[IndianHawk]

[

The present core is capable of withstanding temp upto about 1450*C and to hit 76KN we need a core which can withstand 1650*C temp.

This is where recent developments come into play.
Post credit Maitya at BRF.


2) Lanthanum Zirconate (LZ), has much higher thermal and phase stability - close to 2000deg C.
It also has lower thermal conductivity and sintering tendency compared to YSZ.
(Thermal Conductivity - 2 W/m/K of YSZ vs 1.56 W/m/K of LZ)

3) LZ is also less oxygen transparent than YSZ, providing better bond coat oxidation resistance and minimises the growth of TGO (Thermaly Grown Oxide layer) - Wiki has good details about TGO and it's impact on TBC.

4) LZ has lower coefficient of thermal expansion compared to YSZ - so it can not be applied directly on the NiCrAlY bond coat. Therefore LZ is applied as a top coat material over YSZ forming a bilayer TBC. Furthermore LZ has good chemical compatibility with YSZ, making them a very good candidate for bilayer top coat applications.

5) Nano-structured TBCs often exhibit excellent performance compared with conventional TBCs such as adhesive strength, thermal shock resistance, thermal insulation, corrosion resistance and so on.
Furthermore nano-structured bi-layer is also expected to reflect certain amount of radiations (std phyzziks says wavelength of the reflected light is directly proportional to the particle diameter) thus providing a more effective TBC. So for reflecting heat in the near IR spectrum, TBC micro-particles needs to be of the order of 1-3 μm.

6) In India Nano-structured high purity grade YSZ and LZ are prepared from beach sand containing monazite and zircon following wet chemical route i.e. co-precipitation method.

7) DRDO has tested air-plasma sprayed TBC comprising of NiCrAlY bond coat (of 50 μm thickness), YSZ top coat (thickness 100 μm) and LZ top-most coat (thickness 50 μm) on to cast Ni-base super alloy substrates. The total maximum thickness was kept well below 250 μm.

8 ) DRDO has already assembled and validated the bi-layer YSZ-LZ coated flaps in an aero-engine for test cases involving rapid thermal transients, supersonic flow of combustion products, vibratory loads of about 4 ‘g’, sustained 1,000 h equivalent of engine operation and more than 30,000 nozzle actuations.

 

[IndianHawk]

Also another aspect is advances in TBC ... recently we have seen reports of Indian Rare Earths Limited developing bi-layer TBC of Lanthanum Zirconate (LZ) over Yttrium Stabilized Zirconia (YSZ).
A bilayer top-coat consisting of Lanthanum Zirconate (LZ) over 8YSZ applied over "traditional" bond coat of say NiCrAlY enhances the temperature capability of the coating by >100deg.
So basically this advanced TBC if successfully applied to Kaveri's DS casted HPT turbine blades will easily bring the TeT to mid-1500deg C regime.

And if (and when) DMRL graduates to SC casted blades (and vanes), of the already developed DMS4 material, the absolute cutting edge TeT regimes of 1600+ deg C, becomes well within reach.

 

[amit19]

some more details abt Safran proposal ...

 

[no smoking]

Chinese sensors have long scrubbed it off of Weibo but it was 2015 during static tests the WS-15 exploded sending shrapnel in every direction. Many of the leading engineers were killed and set the programme back several years.

Oh, again, you made up that story, didn't you?
Firstly, WS-15 is a jet engine, not a rocket engine. Unless you put a fuel tank along with the test engine (only fanboy will do that), the jet engine in the test can smoke, can burn, can spit parts, can break down, but DON'T EXPLODE;
Secondly, it is basically safety knowledge: no one standing around the testing engine. They always clear the whole site before running the engine;
Thirdly, it is possible that someone (as stupid as you) like to stand in the room with testing engine. But whole team? Come one, what are they doing there? They need to monitor the test in the control room.

 

[Prashant12]

France makes move to revive Kaveri jet engine project


NEW DELHI: France has made fresh efforts to revive plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal, with a briefing for the project made to defence minister Rajnath Singh during his visit this week.

A detailed presentation on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India was given to the minister who had gone for the handing over ceremony of the Rafale fighter jets. French engine manufacturer Safran, which makes the engines and electronics for the Rafale fighters, pitched its proposal for the co-development of the Kaveri engine for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program.

According to sources, the French side emphasised that India was the only country to which such advanced technology transfer was being offered and that the country would achieve ‘sovereignty’ on aero engine tech.

The French side also pledged to transfer more work for the production of the M 88 engine that powers its fighter jets to India if orders for more of the combat aircraft are received. “If India orders 36 more Rafale jets, more engine parts would be made in India to meet offset conditions,” sources aware of the briefing said.

As reported by ET, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology fell through after the Indian side found the pricing prohibitive. Talks hit a roadblock after it emerged that only a part of the offsets — just over Euro 250 million — could be utilised for the projects and that Defence Research and Development Organisation would have had to provide the remaining Euro 500 million.

The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets are likely to be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric. India also has a plan for a next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) but it is still in the design phase.

Estimates shows that for a fleet of 200 LCAs, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of Euro 25 billion over the lifecycle of the planes.

https://economictimes.indiatimes.co...i-jet-engine-project/articleshow/71532719.cms

 

[Armand2REP]

Oh, again, you made up that story, didn't you?
Firstly, WS-15 is a jet engine, not a rocket engine. Unless you put a fuel tank along with the test engine (only fanboy will do that), the jet engine in the test can smoke, can burn, can spit parts, can break down, but DON'T EXPLODE;
Secondly, it is basically safety knowledge: no one standing around the testing engine. They always clear the whole site before running the engine;
Thirdly, it is possible that someone (as stupid as you) like to stand in the room with testing engine. But whole team? Come one, what are they doing there? They need to monitor the test in the control room.

• Firstly, I did not make it up, it was all over Weibo until the censors scrubbed it.
• Secondly, it is basic knowledge China has the worst safety record on Earth.
• Thirdly, even Western engines explode. It is no doubt going to be more deadly when an experimental Chinese engine does it.
• Finally, the fact you are still using Russian turbofans tells the story.

 

[WolfPack86]

#France makes move to revive Kaveri Jet Engine Project

.

France has made fresh efforts to revive plans to develop the indigenous Kaveri fighter jet engine as part of the Rafale offsets deal, with a briefing for the project made to defence minister Rajnath Singh during his visit this week.

A detailed presentation on creating an aircraft engine ecosystem in India was given to the minister who had gone for the handing over ceremony of the Rafale fighter jets. French engine manufacturer Safran, which makes the engines and electronics for the Rafale fighters, pitched its proposal for the co-development of the Kaveri engine for the Indian Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) program.

According to sources, the French side emphasised that India was the only country to which such advanced technology transfer was being offered and that the country would achieve ‘sovereignty’ on aero engine tech.

The French side also pledged to transfer more work for the production of the M 88 engine that powers its fighter jets to India if orders for more of the combat aircraft are received. “If India orders 36 more Rafale jets, more engine parts would be made in India to meet offset conditions,” sources aware of the briefing said.

As reported by ET, plans to revive the indigenous Kaveri project with the help of French technology fell through after the Indian side found the pricing prohibitive.

Talks hit a roadblock after it emerged that only a part of the offsets — just over Euro 250 million — could be utilised for the projects and that Defence Research and Development Organisation would have had to provide the remaining Euro 500 million.

The upgraded Kaveri engine is not being considered for the next batch of 83 LCAs to be made in India and the jets are likely to be powered by engines supplied by US’ General Electric. India also has a plan for a next generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft (AMCA) but it is still in the design phase.

Estimates shows that for a fleet of 200 LCAs, the cost of engines alone would be in excess of Euro 25 billion over the lifecycle of the planes.
.https://www.facebook.com/pg/TeamAMCA/photos/?ref=page_internal

 

[Compersion]

1) We ought to not only focus on ToT of engine today - france would love to have a partner and strategic input from and for future engine development. have a deal not only for today engine but a improved version development and share in cost and resources on the same. today is not tomorrow. we bring a lot to the table also. france using brain power of bharat (which would be elsewhere)

2) GE engines had won a tender to supply with full ToT what happened to that ? will the discussions with france be in alignment with that? will russia come with a surprise at the last minute (like they always love to do).

frankly whatever it is we have to realize we are on our own - better we discover that with hard work it will help. ultimately france and whoever it is needs to allign with the thought that today bharat and future bharat. do they want to be on the right side - play it well.