Kaveri Engine

[badguy2000]

why doesn't India build its own testing beds? such R&D infrastructures is key to the sustained development of aircraft R&D capacity.

 

[p2prada]

Building test beds from scratch isn't entirely viable for India considering the costs of setting up the infrastructure and that only for one engine. We can think about it only after 5 or 10 years.

The Russians make and test 2 or 3 different engines at a time so it is a decent investment for them and ROI is higher. We have a long way to go before we are able to do the same.

China has much higher needs and has a more capable industry. So, China can afford to have large test beds as well.

 

[thecoolone]

Price negotiations for JV for fighter engine in advanced stage

India's Defence Research and Development Organization (DRDO) expects to close price negotiations in a month for a joint venture (JV) with French engine maker Snecma to develop gas turbine engines that would power the Indian Air Force's light combat aircraft (LCA).

The move to partner Snecma follows DRDO's failure to develop sufficiently powerful engines on its own after spending Rs.2,880 crore over two decades on the project.

While Snecma will bring in critical technology for the hot engine core, DRDO's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) will work on the cold sections around it.

"GTRE will have 50% technology work-share and Snecma will have the other half. We will be closing price negotiations within a month," said Prahlada, chief controller, research and development, DRDO, who goes by one name.

GTRE will obtain complete know-how and intellectual property rights for the engine, Prahlada added. After the closure and approval from the cabinet committee on security, work will begin in three months and the engine will be designed and built in four years, another GTRE official said, requesting anonymity.

The Kaveri engine, developed by GTRE, is undergoing trials in Russia and is nowhere near developing the level of thrust needed to power the LCA. The Kaveri has a thrust of around 65 kilo newton (kN), while 90 kN or more is required to power the LCA for optimal performance. The engine is also much heavier than specified. Nonetheless, some of the technologies and components developed for the Kaveri will be used in the JV.

Because of the delay in developing the Kaveri, India opted for American GE-404 engines. The current Mk-I LCAs are flying with the GE-404 IN20, although even these do not meet original requirement specifications for levels of thrust for the LCA. In October, DRDO selected the more powerful GE-414 as the alternative engine for LCA Mk-II.

Prahlada declined to reveal the estimated cost of the Snecma-GTRE project, but said the new engine will be comparable in pricing and performance to the GE-414. DRDO plans to replace the GE engines on the LCA Mk-I with the Snecma-GTRE engine. "We have plans to fit the engine on all platforms, including the proposed advanced medium combat aircraft and unmanned combat air vehicle," Prahlada said.

Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will manufacture the engines in India. Prahlada said the agreement is to make 100 engines in the first batch.

Ratan Shrivastava, director for aerospace and defence practice for South and West, Frost and Sullivan, said the project's value lay in the fact that India will finally have a flying fighter engine of its own, albeit with a foreign partner.
http://www.livemint.com/2011/01/30202805/Price-negotiations-for-JV-for.html?atype=tp

 

[Yusuf]

Snecma has been around partnering GTRE for the last few years. What has been going on? Why new negotiations and new engine? Was Snecma only on the shakti engine for the choppers or for kaveri as well? Really disappointing that the bird has got the IOC but engine nowhere in sight. I hope we get the engine without further delay for MkII and also we should have the latest tech for the single crystal blade.

 

[plugwater]

There hasnt been any partnership for kaveri engine so far. Shakti is the only engine made in partnership between HAL and snecma. Now the negotiation is going on between GTRE and snecma for making a new upgraded kaveri engine.

 

[thecoolone]

I think what Ajai Shukla had written on his blog in November last year makes sense?
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/11/kaveri-engine-test-in-context.html

The bottom line, as I reported in my Sept 2009 article ("Kaveri jet engine finally poised for first flight") is: this test is the burial ceremony of the indigenous Kaveri development programme. They will measure the parameters etc of the flight tests and then, having quantified what the Kaveri programme has achieved, the file will be closed. Once the flight tests are over, the Kaveri-Snecma programme will begin, in which Snecma will bring to the table a fully developed engine core.

If anyone can be bothered to read the article that I posted in 2009, Mr Mohana Rao, the Director of GTRE told me that the indigenous Kaveri, which had a maximum thrust of 65 KN at full reheat, would never be able to power the LCA for two reasons: firstly, the LCA had turned out heavier than expected; secondly, in the words of Mr Rao, "The Kaveri turned out 15% heavier than we planned. From the planned 1100 kg, its final weight has gone up to 1265 kg."

"We need more thrust without increasing the size of the engine", Mr Mohana Rao told me in Sept 2009. "That means getting better technologies from a more experienced foreign partner. We have chosen (French aero-engine major) Snecma. The Defence Ministry has approved the tie-up."

That notwithstanding, this is only the end of a chapter, not of the book. GTRE has managed to develop, almost entirely indigenously, an engine that can develop 65 KN of power, at a cost of Rs 3000 crores. Now, Snecma is going to show them what they need to do to take that up to the 90-100 KN level.

 

[LETHALFORCE]

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Kaveri_engine_set_for_Indian_combat_plane_999.html

Kaveri engine set for Indian combat plane

Senior research officials in India say they are confident the indigenous, and delayed, Kaveri jet engine will power the fifth-generation Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft.

The Kaveri has been under development for around 20 years by the Gas Turbine Research Establishment, a laboratory division of the government's Defense Research and Development Organization in Bangalore, India.

The GTRE has been working with other DRDO labs, academic institutions and industry partners. It also began working with French engine manufacturer Snecma, part of the Safran Group, in early 2008 to improve the Kaveri's performance.

Technical and bureaucratic delays have meant around $455 million has been spent on the engine, expected to be ready by 2017.

The hookup with Snecma has meant a likely boost in thrust that will make it suitable for the AMCA, a DRDO official told the Press Trust of India.

He said the engine has been able to produce 70-75 kilo newtons of thrust. However, Indian air force and other stakeholders are looking for 90-95 KN.

"I think with the joint venture Snecma in place now, we would be able to achieve these parameters in near future," he told PTI.

The 150 twin-engine Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft are expected to be in service beginning in 2020 and will complement the Tejas, a single-engine Light Combat Aircraft. The AMCA are to replace the air force's aging SEPECAT Jaguar and Dassault Mirage 2000 aircraft.

The Kaveri engine began development in 1986 and was designed originally for Tejas that first flew in January 2001. The Indian air force is likely to need 200 single-seat and 20 two-seat trainers. The Indian navy is said to want up to 40 single-seaters to replace its aging fleet of Sea Harrier FRS51 and Harrier T60.

The government's Aeronautical Development Agency, set up in Bangalore in 1984 to oversee development of the Tejas, also is leading on work for the AMCA.

General Electric's GE F404 engine has been powering prototype Tejas aircraft. Late last year the Ministry of Defense said until the Kaveri engine is ready, India will use the upgraded GE F414 engines for the first 100 Tejas aircraft, expected to be in service later this year.

The F414 units are an afterburning turbofan engine developed from the F404 turbofan for use in the Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornet.

In 2004, the Kaveri failed high-altitude tests in Russia, ending hopes of installing in it the first Tejas aircraft. But the engine passed a milestone in November when India used an Ilyushin Il-76 transport as a test bed flown at Russia's Gromov Flight Research Institute near Moscow.

The engine was tested from takeoff to landing and flew for more than an hour up to an altitude of 19,700 feet at a speed of Mach 0.6 in its maiden flight, a statement by India's defense ministry said at the time.

The pilot controlled the engine and a number of taxi trials were carried out before the flight. However, ministry didn't issue performance details, such as engine thrust, a problem with the engine in the past.

Up to 60 test flights are envisaged to bring it up to acceptable reliability, safety and airworthiness before putting it into a fighter aircraft.

 

[black eagle]

Kaveri AT AI-11

 

[venkat]

^^^ you are the only one to post kaveri pics....what's latest on Kaveri...how are the flight trials going on @gromov flight research institute ? I have one doubt...kaveri has replaced one of the Il-76 Engines.. suppose if the thrust of kaveri is not equal to that of the other 3 Engines an unbalance will be created on the side where Kaveri is mounted..so pilot may have difficulty in flying the aircraft...since no such phenomena is reported. kaveri may be developing thrust equal to that of IL-76 engines...

 

[p2prada]

^^^ you are the only one to post kaveri pics....what's latest on Kaveri...how are the flight trials going on @gromov flight research institute ? I have one doubt...kaveri has replaced one of the Il-76 Engines.. suppose if the thrust of kaveri is not equal to that of the other 3 Engines an unbalance will be created on the side where Kaveri is mounted..so pilot may have difficulty in flying the aircraft...since no such phenomena is reported. kaveri may be developing thrust equal to that of IL-76 engines...

No. Replacing the PS-60 does not mean the Kaveri is generating 17 tons of thrust. The IL can fly with 2 engines ON at any time. They mainly test re-ignition of Kaveri after turning the engine off. Kaveri does not help the IL fly in any way.

 

[black eagle]

 

[Godless-Kafir]

The scientists told me they postponed the test in Russia mid way because the weather was getting very cold!! So they will restart the test in Summer. Notice the arm chair critique would be angry that the Kaveri test is getting delayed but they wont know the reason behind it! Even something like the weather can delay a project by many months.

 

[black eagle]

Kaveri Update In Parliament

India's Kaveri turbofan engine programme came up in Parliament today. Here's what the House was told: "It is proposed to develop production version Kaveri (K10) engine on co-design & co-development basis with M/s Snecma, France. The technical evaluation for this proposal has been completed. Tender Purchase Committee (TPC) with members from DRDO, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL), Indian Air Force (IAF), Indian Navy (IN) and Integrated Finance (R&D) is negotiating the commercial aspects."

http://livefist.blogspot.com/2011/02/kaveri-update-in-parliament.html

 

[Tshering22]

The 150 twin-engine Advanced Medium Combat Aircraft are expected to be in service beginning in 2020 and will complement the Tejas, a single-engine Light Combat Aircraft. The AMCA are to replace the air force's aging SEPECAT Jaguar and Dassault Mirage 2000 aircraft.

How come these guys got the number? Has this been made official by IAF or this is simply a gasbag?

 

[ajay_ijn]

The scientists told me they postponed the test in Russia mid way because the weather was getting very cold!! So they will restart the test in Summer. Notice the arm chair critique would be angry that the Kaveri test is getting delayed but they wont know the reason behind it! Even something like the weather can delay a project by many months.

how does this matter anyway.
Does the arm chair critique still think that Kaveri will power Tejas ?

 

[gogbot]

How come these guys got the number? Has this been made official by IAF or this is simply a gasbag?

the date and number are both gasbag.

IAF has yet to commit to anything on the MCA beyond the ASR

ADA has yet to commit on a time frame , feasibility study still under way. May be Finished by the end of the year.
After that we will have set milestones and time-frame. As well as number of prototypes and LSP's to be built and full funding.

 

[A chauhan]

Kaveri engine production in final negotiation stage: Antony

Kaveri engine production in final negotiation stage: Antony

New Delhi, Feb 23 : India's negotiation with a French firm for developing a production version of its indigenous Kaveri engine for its military aircraft is in the final stage of cost negotiations, Defence Minister A.K. Antony told the Rajya Sabha Wednesday.

Negotiations with French firm Snecma are being conducted by a tender purchase committee with members from the Defence Research and Development Organisation, Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, the Indian Air Force, the Indian Navy and defence finance department.

"It is proposed to develop production version Kaveri (K10) engine on co-design and co-development basis with Snecma of France. The technical evaluation for this proposal has been completed. Tender purchase committee is negotiating the commercial aspects," Antony said in a written reply during question hour.

He said so far, nine prototypes of Kaveri engines and four prototypes of Kaveri Core (Kabini) engines have been developed, and about 1,975 hours of testing have been conducted on Kaveri and its core engines at ground and altitude conditions.

Kaveri engine prototype (K9) was integrated with an IL-76 aircraft at Gromov Flight Research Institute in Russia. After adequate engine ground runs, the scientists had successfully completed the taxi trials and the maiden flight test of Kaveri engine with IL-76 aircraft for over an hour on Nov 3 last year, followed by three more flight tests.

"These flight tests covered a six km altitude and a speed of 0.6 mach (0.6 times the speed of sound)," he added.

India had sanctioned the Kaveri engine development project on Mar 30, 1989, with a probable date of completion in December 1996 and a cost of Rs.382.81 crore. The project cost was later revised to Rs.2,839 crore.

Some of the major reasons for time and cost overruns are first-time development of an engine, lack of skilled manpower in engine manufacturing, enhancement in the scope of project during development, lack of infrastructure for engine manufacture testing and component/system level testing within the country.

"Flying test bed trials was not originally included as a milestone in the project. Engine and component failure during testing, which is inevitable in these kind of projects, resulted in changes in design and material based on various reviews," Antony said.

Foreign manufacturing agencies too showed less priority for the project in view of minimum order quantity, that is the production order quantity from other engine houses.

US sanctions imposed in 1998 (after India's nuclear tests in Pokhran under the National Democratic Alliance regime) affected the delivery of critical systems and components, he added.

--IANS
http://www.newkerala.com/news/world/fullnews-154076.html

 

[rudresh]

i always think why india cannot get the russian alloys for the better kaveri since we are very close to russians.hal is a real cookie cutter in this matter for the mki they are sourcing the raw material from russia and for its engines also even they are making rd-33 i feel only they are assembling in in india. though our engine is radically different in technology we are much far away in metallurgy from them -- on comparing the russian engine stats i think our engine could get lighter by atleast 100kg.

last time i saw the new specs the bipass changed from .18 to .22 hence the engine that is tested in russsia is giveng more thrust.

atleast if they cant get the core materials no probs but atleast new alloys for the externals which decreases weight atleast for the time being.

 

[black eagle]

LII. Gromov has suspended testing of the engine "Kaveri" GTX-35VS

Moscow. March 10. Airports - Federal State Unitary Enterprise "LII. Gromov halted flight tests of Indian turbojet engine" Kaveri "GTX-35VS, told reporters the head of the Institute Pavel Vlasov.

According to him, a pause in the trials connected with pending the receipt of several new instances of the engine to the institute.

Flight tests of the GTX-35VS Il-76LL began Nov. 3, 2010 At the beginning of March this year was carried out 4 flights, remains to be done - 39.

The development of turbojet engine "Kaveri" GTX-35VS is a gas turbine laboratory Indian Agency for Defense Research and Development (DRDO) in 1989.

http://www.aviaport.ru/news/2011/03/10/212177.html

 

[rudresh]

my god it is a turbofanengine not a turbojet