Kaveri Engine

[Rahul Singh]

^^

Don't think there will be any burial of K 9 guys, for AURA GTRE is on board. now what's the guess guys........

Nitesh, be it UCAV or UAV or any flying body the biggest hurdle will remain K-9's low Thrust to Weight ratio. Without bettering (i am sure they will, GTRE, nation's Metallurgy and forging techniques are not where they were in 1989) it K-9 will be more like a burden in the form significant dead weight than an asset. But things will improve as they have. God Willing Bharat will one day................... Vande Matram!

 

[nitesh]

Nitesh, be it UCAV or UAV or any flying body the biggest hurdle will remain K-9's low Thrust to Weight ratio. Without bettering (i am sure they will, GTRE, nation's Metallurgy and forging techniques are not where they were in 1989) it K-9 will be more like a burden in the form significant dead weight than an asset. But things will improve as they have. God Willing Bharat will one day................... Vande Matram!

Rahul, isn't the demands on engine in a UAV/UCAV will be lesser then a manned air craft. I think these series of tests go through successfully. kaveri in present form can take place for trainers too.

 

[Rage]

I was a bit baffled to see the euphoria amongst visitors to Broadsword over the Kaveri engine flight test announced yesterday by the DRDO. I don't mean to dampen your Diwali spirits, but if everyone is drawing entirely the wrong lesson from this, I feel I should set the record straight.

The bottom line, as I reported in my Sept 2009 article ("Kaveri jet engine finally poised for first flight") is: this test is the burial ceremony of the indigenous Kaveri development programme. They will measure the parameters etc of the flight tests and then, having quantified what the Kaveri programme has achieved, the file will be closed. Once the flight tests are over, the Kaveri-Snecma programme will begin, in which Snecma will bring to the table a fully developed engine core.

If anyone can be bothered to read the article that I posted in 2009, Mr Mohana Rao, the Director of GTRE told me that the indigenous Kaveri, which had a maximum thrust of 65 KN at full reheat, would never be able to power the LCA for two reasons: firstly, the LCA had turned out heavier than expected; secondly, in the words of Mr Rao, "The Kaveri turned out 15% heavier than we planned. From the planned 1100 kg, its final weight has gone up to 1265 kg."

"We need more thrust without increasing the size of the engine", Mr Mohana Rao told me in Sept 2009. "That means getting better technologies from a more experienced foreign partner. We have chosen (French aero-engine major) Snecma. The Defence Ministry has approved the tie-up."

That notwithstanding, this is only the end of a chapter, not of the book. GTRE has managed to develop, almost entirely indigenously, an engine that can develop 65 KN of power, at a cost of Rs 3000 crores. Now, Snecma is going to show them what they need to do to take that up to the 90-100 KN level.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/11/kaveri-engine-test-in-context.html

Ajai Shukla penned the words right out of my mouth. That's what I've been thinking to, one reason I haven't posted much on this thread.

What Ajai Shukla says is wholly possible. For the GTRE to be able to simultaneously increase thrust and reduce weight on the Kaveri will take years, for the current core flow is too high and the core obviously too large, and will therefore require redesigning of the Kabini core. Also, the afterburner entry mass flow is just too low, thus leading to decreased nozzle mass flow <the cause of the poor performance on the wet thrust>.

If the file on Kaveri is closed at this juncture, I'd be deeply disappointed, but I cannot say that it was all entirely unexpected.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

what of the single crystal blade technology? Well how can ajay shukla say kaveri in its present form will be buried? what of the promise it held as engines for warships? in one way or the other it will continue but not exactly in the same avatar.

 

[Vladimir79]

That notwithstanding, this is only the end of a chapter, not of the book. GTRE has managed to develop, almost entirely indigenously, an engine that can develop 65 KN of power, at a cost of Rs 3000 crores. Now, Snecma is going to show them what they need to do to take that up to the 90-100 KN level.

http://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2010/11/kaveri-engine-test-in-context.html

And just how are the French going to develop this engine to 100 kN? The best they have is 75 and the partners they relied on the M88-3 dumped their ass. Is India now going to fund their next gen engine research too?

 

[nitesh]

Ajai shukla sahab has messed with figures to make story delicious. 65KN thrust is dry thrust or wet thrust? And conveniently forgotten that Kaveri is flat rated engine. Chill out guys

 

[Godless-Kafir]

Ajai shukla sahab has messed with figures to make story delicious. 65KN thrust is dry thrust or wet thrust? And conveniently forgotten that Kaveri is flat rated engine. Chill out guys

Are you saying if they remove the flat rate governor then it will have more power?

I think after the sanctions on DRDO has been lifted we could see some weight reduction due to imported technology!

 

[nitesh]

Are you saying if they remove the flat rate governor then it will have more power?

I think after the sanctions on DRDO has been lifted we could see some weight reduction due to imported technology!

No if you see Kaveri goals, it is supposed to provide an engine equal to current GE 404 engines. SO 65 KN figure quoted by ajai is wrong here (dry/wet thrust?). I suggest to wait for the thrust figures to get disclosed after the testing. A flat rated engine will provide same power irrespective of operating environment. So yes if the flat rate governor is removed then we can see the engine rating increased

 

[Vladimir79]

Rahul, isn't the demands on engine in a UAV/UCAV will be lesser then a manned air craft. I think these series of tests go through successfully. kaveri in present form can take place for trainers too.

Rather large engine to place in UAVs and trainers. Only example of a trainer with an engine that large is the T-50, but that is also an attack aircraft. There is an idea, making a dedicated CAS aircraft with that engine which doesn't have to dogfight. It could also be used as LCA trainer engine.

 

[vijay jagannathan]

lifting of sanctions means acess to single crystal technology. This will make a world of difference to Kaveri thrust.

 

[Godless-Kafir]

No if you see Kaveri goals, it is supposed to provide an engine equal to current GE 404 engines. SO 65 KN figure quoted by ajai is wrong here (dry/wet thrust?). I suggest to wait for the thrust figures to get disclosed after the testing. A flat rated engine will provide same power irrespective of operating environment. So yes if the flat rate governor is removed then we can see the engine rating increased

I also think that the issue could be with flat rateing the engine! It would be very disappointing if Ajay Shukla is right on this issue, i hope all these years of resources thrown at it does not go to waste!

Also i wonder what is the big deal with the french giving us the M-88 core? Cant we buy an engine and remove the core and copy it, i think we should also have an option to reverse engineer stuff like China does.

 

[Parthy]

Any time frame has provided for the Testing?? like deadline for complete testing!!!

 

[thecoolone]

Russia tests engine for Indian fighter jet

Russia has started in-flight tests of an Indian domestically-designed gas turbine engine for an indigenous light fighter, state-run arms exporter Rosoboronexport said Wednesday.
The engine, dubbed Kaveri, has been designed by India's Gas Turbine Research Establishment (GTRE) for the Tejas light fighter developed under the Indian national program Light Combat Aircraft.
"The first flight of an Il-76LL test aircraft with a Kaveri engine set in place of one of the plane's engines continued for 45 minutes and confirmed the results of ground tests," Rosoboronexport said in a statement.
About 50 in-flight tests have been scheduled for the next few months to confirm the engine's characteristics and reliability.
"After that, the engine will be tested on the Tejas fighter," the statement said.
Despite numerous delays in the development of the Kaveri engine, India still hopes to put it on the later version of the Tejas aircraft.
The current version of the Tejas fighter is equipped with a single GE F404 afterburning turbofan engine developed by General Electric. India has recently ordered at least 99 advanced GE F414 engines for the next production batch of Tejas.
The Indian Air Force is reported to have a requirement for 200 single-seat Tejas fighters and 20 two-seat conversion trainers, while the Indian Navy may order up to 40 single-seaters.
MOSCOW, November 10 (RIA Novosti)
http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20101110/161278210.html

 

[RPK]

About 50 in-flight tests have been scheduled for the next few months to confirm the engine's characteristics and reliability.
"After that, the engine will be tested on the Tejas fighter," the statement said.


http://en.rian.ru/mlitary_news/20101110/161278210.html

 

[nitesh]

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/15/54/62/79/interv10.jpg

http://i64.servimg.com/u/f64/15/54/62/79/interv11.jpg

 

[Parthy]

 

[sayareakd]

Looks like engine was given sufficient cover to integrate with aircraft here is how it looks

 

[pbabu266]

What is thrust of engine? does any one knows over here

 

[Rahul Singh]

Science & spirituality: GTRE Director chants Gayatri Mantra during Kaveri's maiden flight!

Scientists are superstitious. Especially when the going gets tough, you need all the luck under the Sun to hit the Bulls Eye. This piece brings to you some dressing room stories, when DRDO's Kaveri engine spat fire creating history in Russia.
Kaveri fitted on to IL-76 – the modified Flying Test Bed (FTB) – had its successful maiden flight at Gromov Flight Research Institute (GFRI) on November 3, 2010. For over a decade or so, GTRE scientists faced a lot of criticism from the government agencies, Services, defense watchdogs, media and self-styled engine experts, for not delivering what was promised.

The Kaveri engine thus became a joke and GRTE soon became a forgotten lab. And, India's super-pride plane program – LCA – too moved ahead with a paradesi heart. "Yes, we had to face many challenges. While the world was laughing at us, we were putting that extra mile to make the engine fly. We admit the delays, but it's unfair to forget our struggle and not to recognize our achievement," says Mohan Rao, Director, GTRE.

At the just-concluded Aviation Conclave 2010 in Hyderabad DRDO Chief Dr V.K. Saraswat said that DRDO branding will happen only with excellence. And, he ensured to pat Mohan and his boys at every opportunity he got during the conclave. While history was created, Mohan was tensed and was in the company of his colleagues waiting anxiously at GFRI.

"This was the moment of my life. I prayed to God. I have done everything. My team has done. Now, the flight is about to take-off. I chanted the Gayatri Mantra. I was continuously chanting the mantra. I shouted"¦ Take-off, take-off"¦ The Russian friends screamed Athleshna (excellent)," Mohan Rao, said.

Many mails came to Tarmak007 asking why the DRDO failed to celebrate Kaveri's maiden flight, the way it ought to have. A point there, considering what the DRDO and GTRE had to undergo over Kaveri.One definitely needs to salute the spirit of GTRE scientists, who toiled hard to make Kaveri fly.
May be, the need of the hour is more Gayatri mantras for the road ahead!

 

[Godless-Kafir]

There is no news on the thrust but i am guessing its in the 57kN category. Ajay Shakula gave a damning report which stated that the engine was for burial after trials and was meant to be written off as an technology demonstrator in favor of the French engine! However the news thats floating outside does not seem to be positive, most people agree that it is still over weight and under powered. These are not official reports but we need to wait for many months before we can confirm the thrust or the fate of Kaveri.