Kaveri Engine

[G10]

125kn kaveri . Bacche ki jaan leenge kya. New engine project is ok but kaveri! Let kaveri meet basic design thrust first.

 

[TPFscopes]

125kn kaveri . Bacche ki jaan leenge kya. New engine project is ok but kaveri! Let kaveri meet basic design thrust first.

It may be a up-sizable variant of present Engine with same core/basic technology.
Same Project with different volume...

 

[HariPrasad-1]

F414 variant will not be capable of taking AMCA to supercruise. So, India should develop a higher thurst Engine with TVC with the help of Eurojet. Also try to rope in Pratt & Whitney for bigger turboprop and turbofan Engines for airliners.

EJ 230 is a great engine with less than 1000 kg weight with dry thrust 73 KN and afterburner with 108 KN and it comes with TVC. Britain has offered to partner it with us. Depute a special guy to make it happen.

 

[Vijyes]

AMCA will only be able use slight reheat thurst to gain supercruise that is why I'm not call it as "supercruise" or pure supercruise.

Why is supercruise considered as critical? What advantages does it offer? Moreover at supercruise the drag of air increases drastically.

125kn kaveri . Bacche ki jaan leenge kya. New engine project is ok but kaveri! Let kaveri meet basic design thrust first.

Kaveri has variants K9 and K10. K9 is 60/90kN one while K10 is the 72kN/110kN which may end up being 65/100kN engine too.

Frankly, considering that the drag of wind rises drastically at Mach 1 and the fact tgat that despite decreasing after Mach 1.1, the drag still remains higher than 0.9Mach, I feel that fuel efficiency would be better without supercruise. Also, at such high speed, the temperature and drag causes damage to structural integrity of airframe. I don't understand the need for supercruise at all. No dogfight oe bombing can take place while cruising either

 

[kunal1123]

Very touchable story with imagination.
Only a few errors:
1. Chinese never sent their WS-10 to Moscow for test, they have their own flying test bed in China;
2. The first Chinese fighter equipped with WS-10 is not J-10 but J-11;
3. The WS-10 was put on J-11 first time in 2002;
4. There are more than 100 fighters are flying with WS-10 in daily training, drill and even harassing American spy planes.

So, this author can find a job in Bollywood.

Story is correct it have been said by gtre personal involve in development.
1. Do you think China while starting engine development in 1980's when there economy is nearly similary to us have their own flying test bed in China that to in beginning of there first engine in TD state

2. WS-10 was originally wiki source
"The J-10 was intended to be powered by the Chinese WS-10 Taihang turbofan, but development difficulties forced the J-10A to use a Russian engine instead.[36] Future J-10 will likely be equipped with an improved WS-10 type engine designed specifically for it, as the Chinese aeroengine industry matures and political/military pressure to indigenize increases.[37]"

3. NO idea about it, but ws-10 is a meary copy of al-31 engien which china use there indiginious material and not like india they havelaly use even it is overweight and under power not much info is public (u can understand why?)
4. they may be using but it does not mean it is perfact china central decide whether to use it or not . not like india and info are not disclose to public . not like us there general public say bad to there indigeneous development .

 

[kunal1123]

Why is supercruise considered as critical? What advantages does it offer? Moreover at supercruise the drag of air increases drastically.

a/b use more than twice the fule than normal for same increase of thrust thus greatly reduce the overall aircraft range in all mission and a/b use to gain quickly which not required always thus with super cruse range speed and response time increase and the fact ir signature have quite different for a/b and dry run.

Kaveri has variants K9 and K10. K9 is 60/90kN one while K10 is the 72kN/110kN which may end up being 65/100kN engine too.

regardind kaveri that is same i am saying . all 4 engien f414.ej200,m-88,kaveri have capacity to reach 75+/115+ thrust leven(may be less for m-88).

It may be a up-sizable variant of present Engine with same core/basic technology.
Same Project with different volume...

no kaveri initial design is to match f414(60+/95+ thrust) ,why can't be it unrated to 75+/115+ if all other can with near same parameter.

 

[TPFscopes]

EJ 230 is a great engine with less than 1000 kg weight with dry thrust 73 KN and afterburner with 108 KN and it comes with TVC. Britain has offered to partner it with us. Depute a special guy to make it happen.

As British minister said they are Jointly working for joint development of a new engine.
Importing than assembling the Engine didn't have enough scope as we are doing in Al-31fp.

 

[TPFscopes]

Why is supercruise considered as critical? What advantages does it offer? Moreover at supercruise the drag of air increases drastically.

Supercruise is sustained supersonic flight of a supersonic aircraft with a useful cargo, passenger, or weapons load performed efficiently, which typically precludes the use of highly inefficient afterburners / reheat.

Its main advantage is the incremental in the mileage. It gives the Capability to reduce reaction time during attack without affecting combat radius.

 

[TPFscopes]

no kaveri initial design is to match f414(60+/95+ thrust) ,why can't be it unrated to 75+/115+ if all other can with near same parameter.

The final design selected for further development of Kaveri has no match with F414 in terms of design.
The present kabini core might not able to handle such high temperature if further increased , which will affect its service duration.

 

[kunal1123]

EJ 230 is a great engine with less than 1000 kg weight with dry thrust 73 KN and afterburner with 108 KN and it comes with TVC. Britain has offered to partner it with us. Depute a special guy to make it happen.

till now i have searched a lot not fiend a single article mentioning ej230 and it's specification . if u have do share.
there suppose to be development but i don't think there is any active development.

 

[TPFscopes]

A good article on the technical difference between various Turbofan Engines.

https://defenseissues.net/2014/12/06/fighter-aircraft-engine-comparision/amp/

 

[kunal1123]

The final design selected for further development of Kaveri has no match with F414 in terms of design.
The present kabini core might not able to handle such high temperature if further increased , which will affect its service duration.

well i do remember when India initially starting for jv ge scientist praise kaveri and said it can be uprated for AMCA ,after various meeting and finalizing the use of kaveri with technology develop for by ge to unrated for AMCA use (125+ thrust) but they want to retain all ip right(typical American) so it broke down .

 

[kunal1123]

A good article on the technical difference between various Turbofan Engines.

https://defenseissues.net/2014/12/06/fighter-aircraft-engine-comparision/amp/

WELL THIS ARTICAL DOES WHAT I WANA TO DO A LONG TIME THANK'S

 

[Vijyes]

a/b use more than twice the fule than normal for same increase of thrust thus greatly reduce the overall aircraft range in all mission and a/b use to gain quickly which not required always thus with super cruse range speed and response time increase and the fact ir signature have quite different for a/b and dry run.

I am saying why not just cruise on Mach 0.9-0.8 instead of supercruise on 1Mach +? I understand that after burners are inefficient in fuel consumption as they are merely designed to push with high force. But why not just cruise in less than 1 Mach speed like F35? The drag will be significantly less and hence the fuel efficiency of cruising may be higher than supercruising

 

[TPFscopes]

well i do remember when India initially starting for jv ge scientist praise kaveri and said it can be uprated for AMCA ,after various meeting and finalizing the use of kaveri with technology develop for by ge to unrated for AMCA use (125+ thrust) but they want to retain all ip right(typical American) so it broke down .

We can't say that as JV , it may be called as assistance.
GE engaged in KAVERI GTX Project in initial stages but failed to give any fruitful results.
But there was SNECMA roped-in in this project for 3 times, 1st in 2002, 2nd in 2004 and finally in 2016.
For your kind information AMCA require an engine with thurst nearly 110Kn.

 

[no smoking]

Story is correct it have been said by gtre personal involve in development.

1.Do you think China while starting engine development in 1980's when there economy is nearly similary to us have their own flying test bed in China that to in beginning of there first engine in TD state

Yes, they did.

WS-10 was not the first engine they produced. They had been reverse-engineering all kinds of Soviet engines for decades. Where do you think they test these engine? Sending back to Soviet where they copy from?

2. WS-10 was originally wiki source

"The J-10 was intended to be powered by the Chinese WS-10 Taihangturbofan, but development difficulties forced the J-10A to use a Russian engine instead.[36] Future J-10 will likely be equipped with an improved WS-10 type engine designed specifically for it, as the Chinese aeroengine industry matures and political/military pressure to indigenize increases.[37]"

That was original plan, but not valid any more. Today, they already have J-10C which is still using AL-31 engine. At the mean, hundreds of J-11B, J-15, J-16 are building up with WS-10 engines.

3. NO idea about it, but ws-10 is a meary copy of al-31 engien which china use there indiginious material and not like india they havelaly use even it is overweight and under power not much info is public (u can understand why?)

Oh, the information was everywhere: unreliable, crack on the blade, trembling, etc. But, hey, how can you expect a guy to know these if he doesn’t even know WS-10 is a “Copy” of CFM-56.

4. they may be using but it does not mean it is perfact china central decide whether to use it or not.

Nobody says it is perfect, but it is good enough for you to build more than 400 of it; and it is good enough to support High-g action from your jet; and more importantly, it is good enough for your pilot to harass Americans with dangerous manoeuvre.

not like india and info are not disclose to public . not like us there general public say bad to there indigeneous development .

Yes, unlike India in which the scientists keep promising and fail them miserably. The funny thing is the public buys them all the time. Just like the discussion in this thread: Kaveri is ready, it is corrupted gov or Armed forces stop it from moving ahead. But, woops, we need some help from French.

 

[Khagesh]

125 KN Kaveri ?

For the 80 KN wala we had to buy the 7th kind of fighter and MII subs that have their designs in the public, released by the employees of the French companies.

Abhi for the 125 KN what is the ask? Do Indians have to crawl on Parisian roads, now, for this? Chaupat raja.

 

[Vijyes]

125 KN Kaveri ?

For the 80 KN wala we had to buy the 7th kind of fighter and MII subs that have their designs in the public, released by the employees of the French companies.

Abhi for the 125 KN what is the ask? Do Indians have to crawl on Parisian roads, now, for this? Chaupat raja.

How is submarine which was ordered in 2004 related to Kaveri? Are you mentally unsound?

 

[Kunal Biswas]

The publication is not a official, take it with a pinch of salt ..

18 months and counting ..

 

[Khagesh]

How is submarine which was ordered in 2004 related to Kaveri? Are you mentally unsound?

We are going to make more of those subs despite being told that the subs are compromised.

And you think I am of unsound mind?

Not that I mind us making 125 KN engine with the French. Engines are some of the few items our partnership with the French seem to be working well. But at what cost?