JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[nitesh]

We shouldn't thump our chests! The LCA has been in development for DECADES. Now it's ENGINE is being dumped and re-fitted with a foreign engine! So much for "indigenous". What country would take on such a shame? If all we built is the shell and spent hundreds of millions on the lousy Kaveri engine (which is now being touted for use by the NAVY for crying out loud) - we should just junk the plane and go for foreign purchase!

NO ONE will accept LCA as "Made in India"!! A foreign engine defeats that purpose and makes us look ridiculous!

Junk it or fire the lot who were working on the infamous Kaveri Engine - and hire fresh talent ! If this EVER happens - No reserved category people please! Merit - this is for India and not for caste uplifment!:emot100:

Ok so here are you for any serious debates or for plane trolling?

 

[pmaitra]

We shouldn't thump our chests! The LCA has been in development for DECADES. Now it's ENGINE is being dumped and re-fitted with a foreign engine! So much for "indigenous". What country would take on such a shame? If all we built is the shell and spent hundreds of millions on the lousy Kaveri engine (which is now being touted for use by the NAVY for crying out loud) - we should just junk the plane and go for foreign purchase!

NO ONE will accept LCA as "Made in India"!! A foreign engine defeats that purpose and makes us look ridiculous!

Junk it or fire the lot who were working on the infamous Kaveri Engine - and hire fresh talent ! If this EVER happens - No reserved category people please! Merit - this is for India and not for caste uplifment!:emot100:

Your comment is based on the premise that the so called 'upper-caste' people are more efficient. Au contraire, things aren't quite as black and white. Personally, I'd rather have Mayawati as the Railway Minister than Mamata Banerjee; and guess what, ethnologically speaking, I have more in common with Mamata Banerjee than Mayawati.

 

[maomao]

Real Simulated (not a Comp Game) DOGFIGHT between MIG-29 VS F/A-18:

[video=metacafe;261860/mig_29_vs_f_18/]http://www.metacafe.com/watch/261860/mig_29_vs_f_18/[/video]

Do we need F/A-18?? (Not comparing because of the video)

 

[Rahul Singh]

We shouldn't thump our chests! The LCA has been in development for DECADES.

It has been in development for decades and now we know how to develop advance composites, FBW(DFCC), Mission computer, Core Computer, Various Avionics, MFDs, HUDs, half of a airborne tactical MMR etc. Without LCA we would never have been here. Work for decades paid back, though in less fancy more natural way.

Now it's ENGINE is being dumped and re-fitted with a foreign engine! So much for "indigenous". What country would take on such a shame?

Sweden has and Sweden will, enough! Just for you, Sweden has taken that shame(as per your definition) by replacing F-404's Volvo variant by F-414.

All we built is the shell and spent hundreds of millions on the lousy Kaveri engine (which is now being touted for use by the NAVY for crying out loud) -

Errrrrr!!!!!!!! As far as i know Chinese R&D budget for developing a Turbofan is multiple time more than GTRE's and still what they have managed till today is clones of AL-31 and RD-33 waiting to get fresh air all in spite of heavy Russian help. BTW i love to get freebies on something spent. Kaveri-Marine came in that form and Navy loving it. May be Navy and Me are more human than some or one.

thwe should just junk the plane and go for foreign purchase!

Thanks for your expert suggestion. May be someone passes this 'once in millennium' suggestion to Vayu Bhawan so that they can have good stress-busting laughing session.

NO ONE will accept LCA as "Made in India"!! A foreign engine defeats that purpose and makes us look ridiculous!

Except US and Russia no body makes completely indigenous Fighters and today even LM and Boeing buys from Rolls Royce and BAE. So what now, is there a single new fighter in the world which can be claimed by one country as their indigenous jet? If your definition stands any ground then there is no indigenous fighter in world today at least not those which have been and are being built as 4+ gen.

Junk it or fire the lot who were working on the infamous Kaveri Engine - and hire fresh talent ! If this EVER happens - No reserved category people please! Merit - this is for India and not for caste uplifment!:emot100:

Why don't you just sit on heated pan and fire your _____ instead. We will buy new _____ for you so that atmosphere remain less polluted and smelly.

 

[SHASH2K2]

We shouldn't thump our chests! The LCA has been in development for DECADES. Now it's ENGINE is being dumped and re-fitted with a foreign engine! So much for "indigenous". What country would take on such a shame? If all we built is the shell and spent hundreds of millions on the lousy Kaveri engine (which is now being touted for use by the NAVY for crying out loud) - we should just junk the plane and go for foreign purchase!

NO ONE will accept LCA as "Made in India"!! A foreign engine defeats that purpose and makes us look ridiculous!

Junk it or fire the lot who were working on the infamous Kaveri Engine - and hire fresh talent ! If this EVER happens - No reserved category people please! Merit - this is for India and not for caste uplifment!:emot100:

There are two kind of people. optimists and pessimists. It looks like you are of the 2nd type. Developing and Aircraft engine is not as simple as making a cup of tea. Given the poor R&d that we had in metallurgy field we are bound to take time to develop an Engine . Moreover Kaveri Engine is not at all a failure we have developed an Engine thats still useful for other defense related projects and it gives us enough exposures for development of new Engines. We are already working on improving the Kaveri and result will be out for everyone to see.
If you donot mind can you please give me list of countries capable of making Engine of their own. you can count them on fingers. so we are not doing that bad either. With Economy growing we will be able to put more and more money into research and definitely future projects will keep on getting better and better .
You are trying to compare India Indian defense research with USA and European countries. Just have a look at amount of experience they all have and look at budget they have for those kind of research. Our companies are giving much better result with such a low Input.
SO I am Proud of LCA.

 

[badguy2000]

There are two kind of people. optimists and pessimists. It looks like you are of the 2nd type. Developing and Aircraft engine is not as simple as making a cup of tea. Given the poor R&d that we had in metallurgy field we are bound to take time to develop an Engine . Moreover Kaveri Engine is not at all a failure we have developed an Engine thats still useful for other defense related projects and it gives us enough exposures for development of new Engines. We are already working on improving the Kaveri and result will be out for everyone to see.
If you donot mind can you please give me list of countries capable of making Engine of their own. you can count them on fingers. so we are not doing that bad either. With Economy growing we will be able to put more and more money into research and definitely future projects will keep on getting better and better .
You are trying to compare India Indian defense research with USA and European countries. Just have a look at amount of experience they all have and look at budget they have for those kind of research. Our companies are giving much better result with such a low Input.
SO I am Proud of LCA.

the development of one aircraft engine not only needs talents of designers, but also is based on the supports of industry chains,which usually take decades to be built.

developing countries like CHina and India never lack of good design.the biggest problem to them is their poor material tech and machining tech. while it usually take decades and billions of dollars to develop one kinds of good material and machining tech.

for example, Single crystal blade (SCB)is one key component to advanded engine.
before you produce SCB,you need the tech of single crytal metallurgy and advanced machining-tool tech.

West countries started related R&D in 1960s,and finished the development of SCB tech long before they started developing the engine for F16 and F15.

However, When China started to develop WS10, the related tech of SCB is "zero" in China and China had to start from scratch.

So was India's Kavery. When India started its Kavery, India in fact knew nothing about the tech "Single crystal blade" and had to start from scratch.

 

[Vladimir79]

Is the problem SCB? Russia gave India the technology and China is apparently using it in WS-10A. Both engines can fly without tearing themselves up. Kaveri's problem is lack of thrust, WS-10A is lack of thrust control in different flight regimes.

 

[nitesh]

Is the problem SCB? Russia gave India the technology and China is apparently using it in WS-10A. Both engines can fly without tearing themselves up. Kaveri's problem is lack of thrust, WS-10A is lack of thrust control in different flight regimes.

the tech is only for AL 31 and machinery can not be transfered in to other usage

 

[badguy2000]

Is the problem SCB? Russia gave India the technology and China is apparently using it in WS-10A. Both engines can fly without tearing themselves up. Kaveri's problem is lack of thrust, WS-10A is lack of thrust control in different flight regimes.

CHina has not applies SCB tech to old WS10 yet.

old WS10 use " directionally solidified superalloy blade",which is quite old and mature.
SCB is to be applied to the modified mod of WS10.

BTW
China has mastered the maching tech of Titanium alloy blade,which can decrease the cost of titanium ally blade by a large margin.
China is to apply the new tech to the engine blade of Airbus 350.

http://scitech.people.com.cn/GB/13073654.html

 

[badguy2000]

Is the problem SCB? Russia gave India the technology and China is apparently using it in WS-10A. Both engines can fly without tearing themselves up. Kaveri's problem is lack of thrust, WS-10A is lack of thrust control in different flight regimes.

well, vladimire...nice to see you again. I missed you much when you dissapeared for sooo long.

 

[Vladimir79]

CHina has not applies SCB tech to old WS10 yet.
old WS10 use " directionally solidified superalloy blade",which is quite old and mature.
SCB is to be applied to the modified mod of WS10.

I said WS-10A, not the old WS10.

BTW
China has mastered the maching tech of Titanium alloy blade,which can decrease the cost of titanium ally blade by a large margin.
China is to apply the new tech to the engine blade of Airbus 350.

http://scitech.people.com.cn/GB/13073654.html

using the co-production technology with the UK titanium aircraft engine blades, will be applied to the next generation of Airbus aircraft A350.

Sounds like they are made by Rolls-Royce to me. I doubt Airbus will give a potential competitor the ability to copy their engines.

 

[badguy2000]

I said WS-10A, not the old WS10.





Sounds like they are made by Rolls-Royce to me. I doubt Airbus will give a potential competitor the ability to copy their engines.

China is the biggest clients of Airbus.....as we know, tech for market!

BTW, titianiums alloy blade can be applied to not only engine of Airbus 350 ,but also the engine of CHina's 5G bird.....it is a dual-purpose tech for both civilian and military.

 

[Vladimir79]

China is also the biggest propaganda maker of the world. Claim an installation of RR turbine blades and calling them your scientific breakthrough is more like it.

 

[badguy2000]

China is also the biggest propaganda maker of the world. Claim an installation of RR turbine blades and calling them your scientific breakthrough is more like it.

anyhow, CHina now can make it itself....it works.....well, both Soviet and USA did robbered something value from Nazi German after they occupied there in 1945

 

[Vladimir79]

anyhow, CHina now can make it itself....it works.....well, both Soviet and USA did robbered something value from Nazi German after they occupied there in 1945

Mate, the JV has nothing to do with the engines. China is to make 5% of the airframe.

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20100915-237335.html

 

[badguy2000]

Mate, the JV has nothing to do with the engines. China is to make 5% of the airframe.

http://www.asiaone.com/Business/News/Story/A1Story20100915-237335.html

It has nothing to do with JV.Chinese Academy of Sciences doesn't aknowledge that the "tech breakthrough" has anyting to do with RR at all.

it is somebody on CD that said that it is a part of "tech for market".

 

[captonjohn]

Nice article though. PAF creates no challenge for IAF as it lack in quantity and quality both. The main challenge is PLAAF and IAF is beefing itself to counter Chinese air force because air dominance would play crucial role to win a war. :happy_8:

 

[hit&run]

scooped from BR

 

[utubekhiladi]

if jf-17 is equipped with a moderate radar and armed with sd-10. it's a threat to IAF.

 

[akulv]

@Hey Fellow INDIANS- The LCA is a 4th generation fighter or a 4.5th generation fighter?

Waiting for the answer..........THANK YOU