JF-17 Thunder / FC-1 Xiaolong

[civfanatic]

Kurt Tank was working for the Indian gov when he designed the Marut, therefore the plane was designed by India...

The designer's place of origin doesn't really matter.

 

[pmaitra]

Kurt Tank was working for the Indian gov when he designed the Marut, therefore the plane was designed by India...


The designer's place of origin doesn't really matter.

Kurt Tank was neither Indian born nor an Indian citizen. We cannot say India designed it.

 

[charlie]

Maybe the MiG-15 really is far ahead than the F-86. Maybe the MiG-29 is better than the F-16 - if you ask me, an IAF MiG-29SMT beats a PAF F-16A any day of the week. But if you look at the combat records of both the MiG-15 and the MiG-29, they are dismal compared to their Western counterparts (F-86 and F-16). Why is that?

At any rate, considering how quickly fighter technology evolved in the 1950s, by 1962 both the F-86 and MiG-15 were obsolete.

well its simple bro if you take a look at combat records for example in Iraq they had Mig 29 which was considered to be superior to F15 and the american were told not to engage with them in a dog fight and try to avoid them but you see there is a problem
1 Though the Iraqi gave the mig 29 to their best piiot but they never got much time to get trained with the aircraft

2 Russia always use to sell downgraded equipment to the countries out side the Warsaw pact so their radar was damn poor then what the american had

3 The americans had AEWC which helped pilot a lot they new where the mig 29 are a long before they could even see in their aircraft radar


4 Most of the time US goes for a senerio call the over kill situation where they use all of their aircrafts and out number the enemies aircraft's

5 And offcourse the US pilots are well trained

if you really wanne see the russian aircraft capability then let the russian pilot fly the aircraft

THIS WILL GIVE U CLEAR IDEA OF DOG FIGHTS IN IRAQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5AbpZ3tcLg&feature=related Mig 25 dogfights

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WgQHS2hsx84&feature=related mig 29 dogfights

 

[BrassBalls2007]

Hi!!

It is good that they are too obsessed with the Junk fighter, when in combat PAF and its people with released that it is not what it has been claim and compared with. Pakistani always argue with good radar and BVR it will take on any fighter (MKI) if that would have been true the same could have made glider or propeller driven WW-I aircraft with BVR and good radar even cheaper alternative.

Dude the Su - 30 MKI is light years ahead of the JF - 17..

 

[civfanatic]

Dude the Su - 30 MKI is light years ahead of the JF - 17..

Pakistan did not induct JF-17 with the intention of matching our Su-30s. Pakistan currently has no aircraft to match the Su-30 and won't for at least a decade, and by that time we will have FGFA and MMRCA. PAF F-16s can be compared to IAF Mirage 2000-Hs, and the J-10s in their pipeline can be compared to our MiG-29SMTs. But the Su-30 will remain unchallenged.

The purpose of JF-17 is to provide a cheap replacement for obsolete PAF fighters like the F-7 and Mirage-III/V. Problem is, JF-17 is not much better than the aircraft that it is supposed to replace. The main advantage of the JF-17 is its BVR capability, but in all other areas it seriously lacks.

 

[neo29]

The purpose of JF-17 is to provide a cheap replacement for obsolete PAF fighters like the F-7 and Mirage-III/V. Problem is, JF-17 is not much better than the aircraft that it is supposed to replace. The main advantage of the JF-17 is its BVR capability, but in all other areas it seriously lacks.

Absolutely right.... Pakistan just wanted a cheap solution and they did not want to buy more F-16s and then get delayed due to political issues. Jf-17 almost is a 3rd generation fighter except for BVR. I think even our Bisons can take them out.

They want to induct more fighters and again cheap solutions hence the j-10. We can forget PAF as they are years behind us. Our main aim is to match PLAAF who is already inducting hundreds of J-10's.

 

[Tshering22]

^^^ "Never underestimate your enemy"-- Sun Tzu

J-10 is a mystery fighter and we don't know much about it so let's not be hasty. While it may not match Su-35 BM but it got a B version to if not defeat at least match the Su-30 series. Chinese are rapidly researching in AESA radars and it would be soon enough that they would get one fixed on that and also probably upgrade JF-17 for PAF.

But we have to remember that China and Pakistan are a team and even in case we are fighting with Pakistan and China doesn't meddle in a war scenario, if the opposite happens, Pakistan will surely try to prove their allegiance to their new masters through another Kargil if not a full blown war.

Hence, in future we are going to be dealing with 2 countries at one time and both nuclear powered. And we don't have anyone who will join in the fight physically except maybe sell us massive amounts of weapons which will only be great business for them. China may not bleed for Pakistan but Pakistan will bleed for China.

J-10 and JF-17 only increases their interoperability better. F-16s are a burden to PAF since US right now won't allow them to be used against India in a war situation and their Block 52s as well as upgraded A/Bs don't have conformal tanks for deep penetration strikes into our territory. After the 90s blunder, they've realized to move away from US is the safest thing. However what they fail to learn is neutrality which will create another US situation for them this time with PRC.

 

[gogbot]

We do know somethings about the J-10.

For starters in its current condition and Price , the PAF will not go for the aircraft. They want more upgrades.
SO we can determine that it is not entirely satisfactory to the PAF.

Also the PAF is still looking at the F-16 as their primary platform , so it is not as good as an F-16.

 

[civfanatic]

We also know something else about the J-10.

We know that Burma had the choice of choosing between the J-10 or the MiG-29. Even though the J-10 was cheaper, Burma still went with the MiGs. Keep in mind that Burma has a very limited budget and is considered to be one of the most pro-Chinese countries. With these factors in mind, the Burmese choice doesn't mean good news for the J-10; it failed its first big attempt at export.

Until more information about the J-10s capabilities comes out, comparing it with a sophisticated platform like the Su-30 is a waste of time. Also, consider this: if the J-10 is better than the Su-27/30, why are the Chinese ordering large quantities of Flankers?

 

[The Messiah]

Kurt Tank was neither Indian born nor an Indian citizen. We cannot say India designed it.

How many foreign people are working for usa ?? yet they claim they design everything.

They took all the nazi scientists after the war and benefited...

 

[nimo_cn]

We also know something else about the J-10.

We know that Burma had the choice of choosing between the J-10 or the MiG-29. Even though the J-10 was cheaper, Burma still went with the MiGs. Keep in mind that Burma has a very limited budget and is considered to be one of the most pro-Chinese countries. With these factors in mind, the Burmese choice doesn't mean good news for the J-10; it failed its first big attempt at export.

Until more information about the J-10s capabilities comes out, comparing it with a sophisticated platform like the Su-30 is a waste of time. Also, consider this: if the J-10 is better than the Su-27/30, why are the Chinese ordering large quantities of Flankers?

Correction: China offered J10 to no one, what China offered to Burma was JF-17.

 

[death.by.chocolate]

Pakistan did not induct JF-17 with the intention of matching our Su-30s. Pakistan currently has no aircraft to match the Su-30 and won't for at least a decade, and by that time we will have FGFA and MMRCA. PAF F-16s can be compared to IAF Mirage 2000-Hs, and the J-10s in their pipeline can be compared to our MiG-29SMTs. But the Su-30 will remain unchallenged.

Fascinating, tell me more - why is the MKI unmatched? Let's pretend MKI(s) ingress into hostile airspace providing escort to a strike package. What makes the MKI immune to detection, SAM or a host of other defensive measures including the F-16's armed with AMRAAM's and AIM-9M's?Explain why the MKI is impervious to numerically superior BVR capable JF-17's supported by airborne radar, AA and SAM batteries? And while you're at it please provide details of IAF's current SEAD and DEAD capabilities.

 

[smartindian]

Fascinating, tell me more - why is the MKI unmatched? Let's pretend MKI(s) ingress into hostile airspace providing escort to a strike package. What makes the MKI immune to detection, SAM or a host of other defensive measures including the F-16's armed with AMRAAM's and AIM-9M's?Explain why the MKI is impervious to numerically superior BVR capable JF-17's supported by airborne radar, AA and SAM batteries? And while you're at it please provide details of IAF's current SEAD and DEAD capabilities.

mki has longer range bvr and longer range radar ( mki can see jf17 before it can see and mki can lanuch its missile before they can lunch because bigger range of the missile)

f16 it just junk that why iaf rejected it . even gripper is more capable than f116

 

[smartindian]

@ death by chocolate , first answer this question , what is the bore sight of mki vs f16,

 

[smartindian]

it is bit off topic but you asked how su-30 mki is suppirior to f16

 

[smartindian]

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[smartindian]

 

[vicky1112]

Cost factor J-17 is damn cheap. I think its the best PAF can do right now to replace their Mirage III etc.

 

[sesha_maruthi27]

Here is a video
Sukhoi Su-30 VS F-16 Dogfight - Video

This is a flight simulator. Think this is good to watch.
This is not comparison.

 

[SixSigma1978]

It means our LCA will be far more capable then JF17 . Bad choice by Pakistanis.

We shouldn't thump our chests! The LCA has been in development for DECADES. Now it's ENGINE is being dumped and re-fitted with a foreign engine! So much for "indigenous". What country would take on such a shame? If all we built is the shell and spent hundreds of millions on the lousy Kaveri engine (which is now being touted for use by the NAVY for crying out loud) - we should just junk the plane and go for foreign purchase!

NO ONE will accept LCA as "Made in India"!! A foreign engine defeats that purpose and makes us look ridiculous!

Junk it or fire the lot who were working on the infamous Kaveri Engine - and hire fresh talent ! If this EVER happens - No reserved category people please! Merit - this is for India and not for caste uplifment!:emot100: