Is the tank becoming obsolete?

[pmaitra]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

You have misunderstood ....

I posed question - can the West or USA or any other proponent of tanks use tanks in a manner being propagated here for the built up areas against an Army that would have air support, superior technology, Arms and Ammunition, well coordinated ant tank defence and designed killing areas.

Fighting in built up area in Iraq or Syria is different and one can use any thing there. Using Tanks in Lahore would not be the same thing.

So do not justify existence of tanks for fighting in built up areas..

And yes, Indian Army tanks will not enter those cities as there are many other ways to capture those if you understand the meaning of manoeuver . Capturing in manoeuver means something else.

Indian Army is not interested in capturing cities by banging their heads. Remember how Dhaka was Captured !!

This what happens when anti tank density is only moderate :

@Bhadra, question for you.

I don't know how so many of these armoured vehicles were pulverized. Looking at the landscape, it doesn't look like it was an ambush. Also, there are not many craters around, so it couldn't have been plain shelling and hit by chance. My thesis is that these were destroyed by sensor fused munitions that can be launched by the BM-21 Grad. What do you think?

 

[sgarg]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@Bhadra, question for you.

I don't know how so many of these armoured vehicles were pulverized. Looking at the landscape, it doesn't look like it was an ambush. Also, there are not many creaters around, so it couldn't have been plain shelling and hit by chance. My thesis is that these were destroyed by sensor fused munitions that can be launched by the BM-21 Grad. What do you think?

Smart shells like Krasnopol (Krasnopol (Weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) being used.

 

[sgarg]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

@Bhadra, the biggest risk to tank is when it is not moving. The biggest advantage of tank is ability to fire on the move.
The technology is making battle very complicated. It is also making older tanks outdated.

 

[Akim]

Re: Main Battle Tanks and Armour Technology

Smart shells like Krasnopol (Krasnopol (Weapon) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia) being used.

Krasnopol and Kvitnik use a laser target designator .

Kvitnik

So when shooting at tanks not used. You can, but do not use. Tanks don't even use ATGMs.

 

[sgarg]

@Akim, can you list what weapons are being used?

 

[Akim]

@Akim, can you list what weapons are being used?

n the Ukrainian side - almost all of the samples, which is in the arsenal of the Ukrainian army. From the AD complexes, only the "Strela-10", for a of destroyed militants on the floors of buildings. Both sides use a large number of ATGMs both new and old generations, RPG (all versions). This "war of distances." Militants and the Russian army rarely go intodirect collision. Often used MLRS and tube artillery. Therefore, in photo often show large losses of armored vehicles. Both sides also used a lot of reconnaissance drones - so getting accurate artillery. Tank duels are rare. The tanks are mainly used in ambushes and defense.

 

[sorcerer]

South Korea to Deploy 100 New Tanks With Locally Built Engines

South Korean Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA)announced deployment of 100 K-2 Black Panther tanks with locally produced engines and transmission systems by 2017.

MOSCOW, November 19 (Sputnik) — South Korea is planning to deploy 100 next-generation K-2 Black Panther tanks with locally produced engines and transmission systems by 2017, the country's Defense Acquisition Program Administration (DAPA) said Wednesday.

"The K-2 battle tank will allow the military to have advanced combat vehicles with improved mobility and firepower fit for future environments," DAPA spokesperson Kim Si-cheol was quoted by Yonhap news agency as saying.

The tank's development was delayed due to its failure to meet the South Korean Defense Ministry's acceleration performance requirements. The deployment was possible after the standards were relaxed.

"We can overcome numerical inferiority compared to North Korea with this high-quality battle tank, and we expect the K-2 to be actively exported to foreign markets," the spokesperson added.

North Korea has almost two times more battle tanks at its disposal than its southern neighbor, Kim said, though pointing out that most of Pyongyang's war machines are outdated.

The K-2 tanks will replace the aging US-made M48 main battle tanks currently forming the backbone of the South Korean tank fleet.
South Korea to Deploy 100 New Tanks With Locally Built Engines / Sputnik international

 

[sorcerer]

US Plans to Deploy 150 Tanks in Eastern Europe

MOSCOW, November 26 (Sputnik) – The US army plans to station about 150 tanks and other armored vehicles in Eastern Europe next year, a top American general Ben Hodges said.

"The troops will come over and train, and they'll go back. The equipment will stay behind," Hodges said in an interview with AFP.

The move is part of "Operation Atlantic Resolve", which according to Hodges aims to "provide assurance to those allies that are closest to the [Russian] threat," Russia Today (RT) News Agency reported. US troops will conduct joint military exercises with their NATO allies, AFP said.

Since this fall nearly 50 US M1 Abrams tanks and Bradley Fighting Vehicles have been stationed in Latvia and Poland, RT reported.

The US plans to "pre-deploy" another 100 tanks in Germany to conduct joint military drills with its NATO partners, according to Hodges, AFP informed.

"I'm going to look at options that will include distributing this equipment in smaller sets, company-size or battalion-size, perhaps in the Baltics, Poland, Romania, Bulgaria, places like that," Hodges said, as quoted by RT.

Earlier this year, about 600 US military personnel arrived in the Polish town of Malbork.

The US has some 29,000 personnel permanently stationed in Germany, Italy and Belgium, but this number is set to grow as NATO member states have requested that the Pentagon send more troops to Eastern Europe amid their perception of the Russian threat in the region, RT said.

Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov said reckless NATO expansion into Eastern Europe would undermine European stability.
US Plans to Deploy 150 Tanks in Eastern Europe / Sputnik International

 

[sorcerer]

The Main Battle Tanks of Asia: Junk or Still Useful?

A Washington Post headline from January 2014 succinctly summarizes a widely held belief about the utility of tanks in modern warfare: "The end of the tank? The Army says it doesn't need it, but industry wants to keep building it." The article goes on to state that, "The manufacturing of tanks — powerful but cumbersome — is no longer essential, the military says. In modern warfare, forces must deploy quickly and 'project power over great distances.' Submarines and long-range bombers are needed. Weapons such as drones — nimble and tactical — are the future."

While this assertion may hold true for militaries worldwide in the long-run, for now it appears to apply uniquely to the United States, which like no other nation on earth has a history of expeditionary warfare and enjoys a high degree of security from invasion by a conventional foe. Consequently, with the U.S. tank force numbering around 6000 main battle tanks (MBTs), it makes sense for the United States military to allocate resources to other weapons programs.

However, looking to the Asia-Pacific the story is different. There, the majority of countries are in the process of upgrading their tank forces.

In a recent article, the Asian Military Review has listed the major procurement and upgrade programs in the region. Almost every regional power is investing in new tank forces.

For example, China currently fields approximately 8000 MBTs, 5000 of which are of the obsolete Type 59 – a Chinese produced version of the Soviet T-54, 55 series. However, the People's Liberation Army has acquired around 700 of the advanced Type-99 MBTs. China is also working on a cost-efficient modern MBT, the MBT-3000, specifically designed for export to developing countries.

By 2020, India plans to procure 1657 Russian T-90 tanks (1000 of which will be build domestically under a technology agreement with Russia), enough for 59 tank regiments. In addition, India will upgrade its 1900 strong T-72 MBT force, and will continue to build indigenous third generation MBTs (the Arjun MKI and MKII).

Japan is currently downsizing its tank fleet of Mitsubishi Type 90 MBTs to 400, but it will add 68 new Mitsubishi Type 10 MBTs – a lighter and more agile tank better suitable for urban combat, the type of warfare that the Japan Self-Defense Forces are most likely to face in the defense of Japan.

The backbone of the South Korean tank forces are the Hyundai KI and KIAI MBTs. General Dynamics has assisted South Korea in upgrading this fleet of 1500. The military also aims to acquire 397 new K2 Black Panther MBTs, currently being developed by Hyundai.

Other Asia-Pacific countries have also gone on a tank buying spree: Indonesia is projected to receive the last of 104 German Leopard 2A6 MBTs by 2016, Bangladesh has ordered 44 Chinese MBT-2000s, Thailand is expected to purchase up to 200 MBTs in the years ahead, and Pakistan aims to increases its MBT force from 300 to 600 in the near future. Finally, Taiwan aims to replace its aging tank fleet and might purchase the M1A1 Abrams from the United States. Malaysia, Singapore and Vietnam, while currently not planning to expand their MBT fleets, are nevertheless gradually upgrading existing forces.

It is fair to conclude, then, that the MBT will be part of Asian-Pacific military arsenals for a while.

The Main Battle Tanks of Asia: Junk or Still Useful? | The Diplomat

 

[jouni]

Close co operation between CV 90s, Leo 2s and panzer jägers are still the backbone of Finnish doctrine. Of course our terrain is mainly dense forrests and lakes.

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_O6_qrgA-eQ[/video]

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=T1drhtssKa8[/video]

[video]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=R3PWS3EtgZc[/video]

 

[Redhawk]

Is the tank becoming obsolete? That is, is the tank now obsolescent? I don't think so. I'm still driving my old Chrysler-made 300C gas-guzzling tank around the town.

 

[pmaitra]

Tanks were allways part of combined arms.

I am not interested in your fantasy, neither in discussion with someone like you. Now go away and stop wasting my time...

@Bhadra has served in the military, and you have not, but that does not stop you from fantasizing about yourself being a knowall. With what authority are you asking him to go away?

Keep rambling along, nonetheless.

Just keep in mind that I forked this thread out from another thread, because @Bhadra wanted to discuss the obsolescence of the tank. He will not go away, and if that bothers you, you may start with yourself.

 

[Akim]

Without tanks attack and defense is not possible.

 

[MANT!]

In 1957, a British Ministry of Defense white paper stated that aircraft were obsolete and missiles would be the future..this was used as justification to eliminate the British aircraft industry..
1957 Defence White Paper - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Tanks didn't make the infantry obsolete, and anti-tank weapons won't do the same for tanks..it's all move and counter move, but one can't take and hold ground without armor support or air support for that matter.

 

[Akim]

In the war in the east of Ukraine is used a lot of tanks and anti-tank weapons. The last offensive on Uglegorsk and Debaltseve showed that without tanks this is not possible.

 

[smestarz]

We cannot say any weapon is obsolete, A weapon is superseded by another weapon and this weapon which is deemed obsolete due to the limitation of the technology at that time. Then this obsolete weapon evolves itself using newer concepts, technology and material. For example with the evolution of guns, bow and arrow were termed obsolete, but as the Bow and Arrow system evolved, it is now in a way can have more bigger punch than a gun. With better designs and newer material the Bow has evolved with better range at less efforts, also the arrow head now has a choice, like normal arrow, explosive arrow etc etc.

thus the Tanks have reached the reached the peak of what the present day technology allows them to develop and hence they would be outclassed by other weapons only till the time the tanks reinvent themselves.

 

[smestarz]

Without tanks attack and defense is not possible.

Using Tanks for defence is a big mistake. If you treat a tank only like a gun and put it for defence then you best start finding a white towel.
Tank are an offensive weapon, and even in situation which calls for defence, they have to be used offensively, specially where the enemy is going has strong presence, the tanks can be used offensively to break up the attacks, and then fall back in a position from where it can be used in counter attacks

 

[Akim]

Using Tanks for defence is a big mistake. If you treat a tank only like a gun and put it for defence then you best start finding a white towel.
Tank are an offensive weapon, and even in situation which calls for defence, they have to be used offensively, specially where the enemy is going has strong presence, the tanks can be used offensively to break up the attacks, and then fall back in a position from where it can be used in counter attacks

The tank has been used very successfully in the defense. 100 Israeli tanks stopped the attack 500 Syrian tanks. In Soviet military Charter, each platoon in the defense attached to one tank. (In addition to the three BMP, which already have in the platoon).

 

[Ray]

Tanks are best used in manoeuvre and have little effect as 'pillboxes.

Tanks in a static role are ideal targets.

Movement gives inherent protection, be it of a machine or men.

 

[Akim]

Tanks are best used in manoeuvre and have little effect as 'pillboxes.

Tanks in a static role are ideal targets.

Movement gives inherent protection, be it of a machine or men.

Every military unit in the defense got its sector of fire.
A tank in a trench, almost invulnerable target.