INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[Kunal Biswas]

INSAS carry only barrel cleaning kit insides its stock..

New grip have space for lots of things so does new stock..

Kunal sir i have no idea about cleaning of INSAS but i think something like this survival kit will help in field.

all these things add weight to rifle, but it gives the soldier big moral booster, as he knows that he is better armed and prepare to take on enemy.

 

[Kunal Biswas]

@sayareakd sir, If you stay at DFI, I will post today Step by Step procedure to replace stock and grip..

 

[Kunal Biswas]

I am not into this discussion which is not technical but political related and other facts..

I am not very much into this vs that, Nor this is the right thread to do so..

Your post moved here : http://defenceforumindia.com/forum/indian-army/50038-indian-army-small-arms-11.html

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The velocity of OFB 64gran is above 914m/s / +3000ft/s from 18inch barrel compare to 62gran SS109 velocity 2900ft/s from 18inch barrel, how the recoil is suppose to be lesser than SS109 ?, the recoil is more or less same one cannot make out but only with machines, This info is wrongly put from where ever you extracted..

There are 3 carbines, Which one you talk about or heard about ?

KALANTAK 5.56X45MM

Amogh 5.56x30MM

MSMC 5.56X30MM

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The carbine must be Kalantak, And the recoil is same as INSAS as M16`s in M4 carbine, Which is Obvious..

And How the round will behave depends on barrel length and twist ratio..

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The person coming with such conclusion on other thread does not have clue about the design he talks about or even types, what i can make out from your post..

Considering that these 'improvements' came over a period of 20 years says a lot about the manufacturer. Compare the evolution of guns by FN, Insas can be called whose distant cousin.

Not only does a stamped sheet metal gun made by FNC 15 years before first Insas was made have a better finish, the evolution of the receiver from stamped sheet to uni-body polymer should be noted. I was reading in other thread why Insas carbine failed because the standard OFB Insas ammunition was 'too powerful' for the carbine. Insas ammunition weighing 64grain at 890m/s exit velocity is supposed to have a lower recoil than SS109 equivalent ammunition that OFB also produces. If the carbine had a high recoil with standard Insas ammunition, it will still have a high recoil with standard NATO ammunition. Clearly the fault doesn't lie with the ammo but with the design they have been trying to implement.

 

[Twinblade]

The velocity of OFB 64gran is above 914m/s / +3000ft/s from 18inch barrel compare to 62gran SS109 velocity 2900ft/s from 18inch barrel, how the recoil is suppose to be lesser than SS109 ?, the recoil is more or less same one cannot make out but only with machines, This info is wrongly put from where ever you extracted..

I used the info on OFB website.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/sc/18.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/sc/1.htm

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ACOG Alternatives ( Legal )

Now i will post some important information about changing stock on INSAS 1B1 and grip, The Intel i gathered is from NET..

Back to Work =====================>>

I have a Simpler Solution in My Mind, Which will reduce the work load by 40% >>

^^ From above, My Idea takes shape >>

From last 2 months, this INSAS is haunting me in my dreams..
@sayareakd sir..

well sir this is haunting me for last two years :thumb:

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I did not see that but, the knowledge within units is what i told..

I used the info on OFB website.

http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/sc/18.htm
http://ofbindia.gov.in/products/data/ammunition/sc/1.htm

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ACOG Alternatives ( Legal )

Changing INSAS 1B1 Stock >>

INSAS design is highly influenced by AKM, Its design of butt stock attachment and grip are identical to AKM, I will post pictures of AKM upgrade which is dito same for INSAS 1B1..

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We start from removing dust cover, by pressing the button which is indicated with blue circle.

After removing the dust cover we will also remove the spring, In INSAS 1b1 the dust cover does not remove but flip upwards

After removing the spring we will notice these two nuts, to dis-attach the stock we have to remove these two nuts, Same on INSAS 1B1

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ON INSAS >>

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Continue to Next Post >>

 

[sayareakd]

Kunal sir this is light butt cheek guard.

this one is bit heavy but good

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ACOG Alternatives ( Legal )

Changing INSAS 1B1 Stock Continues >>

After removing the old stock we insert the new stock, we may have to jerk into it, Same for INSAS 1B1

After putting the stock inside, we have to put both nuts back on

And your installation of new stock is done on INSAS 1B1

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About the Stock :

SBT-K47 stock

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There are many other stocks available for stamp AK / INSAS receivers..

But one have to get it first and need specific tools to get the job done, tools are available in market hardware store..

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Sir, these are fab defense products, this one is full metal the one i have posted is made of fiber and also avilable in metal..

The other one is for DMR ..

Kunal sir this is light butt cheek guard.

this one is bit heavy but good

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Re: ACOG Alternatives ( Legal )

Changing INSAS 1B1 Grip >>

The first thing to unscrew the nut below the grip, AK / INSAS have identical grip design and attachement

After putting off the old grip, we will put the new grip and attach it from inside via a help of a screw driver and the nut

And its ready to go..

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Original Vid, From where i took these screen shots >>


Just let you guys know, I have not included the fore-grip as its not same with INSAS..

 

[sayareakd]

Kunal sir you make it look so simple.....................:thumb:

 

[Abhijeet Dey]

Option #3: Issue a tender within Private and Gov sector to Upgrade existing INSAS 1B1 as per Army specs. :ranger:

 

[ALBY]

Couple of weeks back there was a military exhibition named Suraksha 2013 held at Cochin.There in one stall of drdo there was a poster of there ongoing research and i was about developing a multi cal rifle named Multi cal weapon system(MCWS).On further inquiry the official told me that the weapon is under development and it is based on the Insas rifle.
If DRDO is developing a multi cal weapon that too based on insas then why is a hurry to import foreign weapons which comes under a heavy price tag?Lets wait another couple of years till the proposed weapon is unveiled.Importing and obtaining TOT for a foreign multical system in such a heavy numbers is only going to put a nail in the coffin of the whole Insas program.

 

[TrueSpirit]

@DRDO: Mate, one of the reason for the tender is:
From IA's point of view, DRDO's credibility is questionable when it comes to timely delivery of weapon-systems, given the DRDO's "not-so-inspiring track record & IA's Arjun experience. In a nutshell, DRDO is better known for "Too-little & too-late".

Going by IA's logic: Soldier's life (dependent on the arms he uses) & nation's security, is paramount. Subscribing to DRDO's commitment is of secondary importance.
Now, who can contest that ?

 

[abingdonboy]

There's too much opaqueness to Indian arms procurers- no one knows for sure just what the hell is going on on the F-INSAS, FICV, DRDO MULTI-Cal rifle, foreign multi-cal rifle fronts to name but a few.


Also I feel the media does far more harm than good in these cases- they smell blood and go after any foreign weapon purchase they feel like regardless of a lack of evidence being present. They have screwed India over on the LUH and MMRCA deals and have looked to do so on many others. Just the suggestion of them of scam or corruption is enough for the great "Saint" to stall said procurements indefinitely and to make it worse the procurements are neither cancelled nor moved foreward- India gets the worst of both worlds- no procurement but no measures to initiate a re-tendering just an omnipresent "question mark" and indecision.


And why @Kunal Biswas sir, are you preempting such a cancellation/scam? From the latest info I have to hand (as good as 3 weeks ago) from an industry insider- this deal is going ahead smoothly right now and ,in fact ,the IA is apparently very anxious to get the said rifle in service by mid-2014-with frontline/RR troops-when the US draw down in Afghanistan is pretty much completed.



I think though, that in the long term India really needs to legalise this industry practice of having lobbyists/arms agents present in-country. It is only because of Indian laws these guys are in the wrong but in most of the developed world these guys are allowed to operate freely and above board. By having this stupid policy of making it illegal for these guys to exist merely drives these guys underground and to employ underhand means. Just legalise it, have everyone operate on a level field with some bloody transparency!!

 

[pmaitra]

And why @Kunal Biswas sir, are you preempting such a cancellation/scam? From the latest info I have to hand (as good as 3 weeks ago) from an industry insider- this deal is going ahead smoothly right now and ,in fact ,the IA is apparently very anxious to get the said rifle in service by mid-2014-with frontline/RR troops-when the US draw down in Afghanistan is pretty much completed.

The IA should have been anxious in 2000, right after the Kargil War, and by 2001, they should have provided a GSQR to OFB for a rifle that we would need today. IA has this habit of napping, for a long time and then suddenly waking up and going into a panicky frenzy about arms imports, and for some reason, IA requirements tend to closely match what is available off the shelf from foreign vendors.

The fact that 70 years after independence we are thinking of importing a basic thing like rifles should be enough for us to hang our heads in shame.

 

[DivineHeretic]

The IA should have been anxious in 2000, right after the Kargil War, and by 2001, they should have provided a GSQR to OFB for a rifle that we would need today. IA has this habit of napping, for a long time and then suddenly waking up and going into a panicky frenzy about arms imports, and for some reason, IA requirements tend to closely match what is available off the shelf from foreign vendors.

The fact that 70 years after independence we are thinking of importing a basic thing like rifles should be enough for us to hang our heads in shame.

To be fair to the IA, if not for political considerations, the US would have switched over to the HK-416 long time ago.As long as you can manufacture the rifle and ammunition in your country, who designed and developed the gun is of relatively low importance.

It is not a high technology, sensitive equipment the knowledge of which is to be guarded. The optics and electronics(if any) are a different matter and should be manufactured at home, whatever the cost.

And its not really the DRDO the Army is pissed off at. The OFB with their very poor manufacturing standards have managed to create problems in the gun which should never have existed. The IA does not dislike the current INSAS, it hates the quality of manufacturing by OFB. (Well, atleast it did)

 

[pmaitra]

To be fair to the IA, if not for political considerations, the US would have switched over to the HK-416 long time ago.As long as you can manufacture the rifle and ammunition in your country, who designed and developed the gun is of relatively low importance.

Even if we can produce it in India, it will be license produced, and we will still have to pay a license fee. So, who designed and developed the gun is indeed very important.

It is not a high technology, sensitive equipment the knowledge of which is to be guarded. The optics and electronics(if any) are a different matter and should be manufactured at home, whatever the cost.

India should invest in precision engineering tools, but continue to produce the INSAS while the Army should work on a new GSQR and hand it over to OFB so that they can come up with a prototype 3 years hence. Regarding multi-calibre, I am totally against introducing yet another calibre between 7.62 mm and 5.56 mm, leave alone a new imported gun for a new calibre.

And its not really the DRDO the Army is pissed off at. The OFB with their very poor manufacturing standards have managed to create problems in the gun which should never have existed. The IA does not dislike the current INSAS, it hates the quality of manufacturing by OFB. (Well, atleast it did)

True. There was a quality problem, and most of it has been fixed.

 

[sayareakd]

we need better trigger guard so that soldiers can use INSAS with gloves specially in cold region

Enhanced Trigger Guard

Allows shooter to access trigger while wearing a glove. Also rotates down much like a standard trigger guard. Fills width gap on receivers. No sharp edges or corners. Description Enhanced Trigger Guard Features "¢Fills width gap on receivers "¢No sharp edges or corners

 

[Kunal Biswas]

Why is that knee jerking question ? have you care to read the article provided in the first page on first place..

All Industry claim the same including SIG & Berreta and both claims also to be the winners..

If you have little Idea how this corrupt system works inside and outside forces, you would not give such a logic ..

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This thread is for dicussing about ' What If Multi-Cal Rifle Tender Falls? ' lets focus on that..

If you have some point about the topic, do share..

Also I feel the media does far more harm than good in these cases- they smell blood and go after any foreign weapon purchase they feel like regardless of a lack of evidence being present. They have screwed India over on the LUH and MMRCA deals and have looked to do so on many others.

And why @Kunal Biswas sir, are you preempting such a cancellation/scam? From the latest info I have to hand (as good as 3 weeks ago) from an industry insider- this deal is going ahead smoothly right now and

I think though, that in the long term India really needs to legalise this industry practice of having lobbyists/arms agents present in-country.

 

[Waffen SS]

I cant understand why do we need Foreign rifles??

If we can make these

why we dont use them??

We are already a Zoo of arms, for Ak 47s- From Original Russian variant of it to it's copy of Former East Germany's version known as MPi-KM

In any future all out long war I fear how Indian army will supply lots of different spare parts for different weapons?