INSAS Rifle, LMG & Carbine

[ghost]

 

[jouni]

@ALBY, thanks for the pictures. You are correct, AKM is used in limited numbers. The pictures @ghost posted are of AK-74, not AKM, not AK-47.

@ghost, it is hard for me to believe that those pictures are of a rifle produced in 2010. I will tell you the reasons why:

• The plastics are poorly finished.
• The cut where the buttstock attaches to the rifle is poorly matched.
• The plastic part on top of the gas pipe is, admittedly by the author, finicky, that it breaks. This was true when a private company called Neelkamal was supplying these plastic parts. Later on, these problems were resolved. I don't know whether they still supply the plastic parts, or some other company.
• Later model plastic parts were well finished, whether the furniture is tan or black. The colour of the furniture does not matter. The metallic parts are the same, whether the furniture is tan or black. The pictures I have posted of INSAS from 2003 proves it.

Spoiler: Fit and finish of INSAS furniture

View attachment 5478 View attachment 5477 View attachment 5479 View attachment 5480

Perhaps you can ask Cottage Cheese when actually those rifles were produced. I don't believe these were produced in 2010. I have seen INSAS with the rifle in my hand. The only thing I haven't done is shot bullets out of it. Next time there is an Industrial or Trade Fair, please do visit and see the INSAS with your own eyes. It might not prove when the rifles in your post were produced, but you will see what the real quality of the rifles are.


What problem did you solve fifty years ago that you hope we solve?

I mean that we got the concept, fit and finish and quality of RK62 ready from the day one back in 1964. We already then had experience of decades of indigenious small arms design and manufacturing at Finnish Defence forces. I do not know how long Indian Armys experience is before Insas, but I trust you learn by doing.

 

[pmaitra]

I mean that we got the concept, fit and finish and quality of RK62 ready from the day one back in 1964. We already then had experience of decades of indigenious small arms design and manufacturing at Finnish Defence forces. I do not know how long Indian Armys experience is before Insas, but I trust you learn by doing.

You should instead improve the fit and finish of your RK62. Compared to INSAS, it is no better. Compared to MCIWS, it is inferior. I hope you don't take 50 years to improve the fit an finish of RK62 to bring it up to the quality of our MCIWS.

Good luck!

The Indian Army does not make guns. The Ordnance Factory Board does.

If you are sincere about your desire to learn about India making indigenous arms, then start with 7.62 NATO SMLE. Everything is here in DFI. I recommend you spend some time looking around the forum.

 

[ghost]

DRDO’s new assault rifle will be a disaster for the army




The Indian Army’s recent decision to induct an indigenously developed assault rifle follows yet another instance of its failure to import one, after formulating unrealistic Qualitative Requirements for a weapon system that is simply non-existent. On June 15, the army scrapped its December 2011 tender to procure 66,000 multi-calibre assault rifles, opting instead for the Excalibur assault rifle, designed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

The Excalibur is unlikely to emerge by 2017-2018 as an enchanted weapon system. For, once developed, it will merely be an upgraded variant of the DRDO’s 5.56 x 45 mm Indian Small Arms System assault rifle, which the army has rejected.

The army vetoed the INSAS rifle, over a decade under development, in 2010, on grounds of it being ‘operationally inadequate,’ some 15 years after reluctantly inducting it into service in the mid-1990s.

Its veto was centered round the rifles bulging barrels, frequent breakdown of moving parts and cracks in its polycarbonate magazine, whilst employed in extreme temperatures in Kashmir and Rajasthan, and all-round inefficiency.

Thereafter, army headquarters declined to repose faith in the DRDO’s ability to design a suitable assault rifle, and instead, drafted improbable Qualitative Requirements to import a multi-calibre assault rifle.

These required the rifles to weigh less than 3 kg and be capable of switching from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x 39mm calibre, by merely changing their barrel and magazine. They were also required to fire 600 rounds per minute to a minimum distance of 200 metres.

After nearly three years of technical evaluation, field trials featuring four competitors were conducted at Bakloh cantonment, near Dalhousie in Himachal Pradesh, and Hoshairpur in Punjab, which concluded late last year.

Participants included Beretta’s ARX-160 (Italy), Colt Combat Rifle (the US), CA 805 BREN (the Czech republic) and Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) ACE1 model.

All four manufacturers failed to meet the army’s whimsical Qualitative Requirements, as other than Beretta’s ARX-160, currently in service with the Egyptian and Italian armies and the Mexican federal police, the three other rifles were prototypes.

These had been configured hastily for the lucrative Indian tender, worth an estimated $3 billion to $4 billion (about Rs 18,900 crores/Rs 189 billion to Rs 25,200 crore/Rs 252 billion) and consequently were almost certain to fail in trials.

The deal included a technology transfer to the Ordnance Factory Board to licence build the shortlisted weapon system to meet the army’s long-delayed requirement for over 220,000 to 250,000 assault rifles. Eventually, the rifles were also to equip the paramilitaries and special state police units.

At least three successive army chiefs reiterated 2010 onwards, that inducting the assault rifle was their ‘top priority’ and persisted with the import option. This was despite the continuing development of Excalibur, which the army ignored.

But faced with the stark reality of no assault rifle meeting its over ambitious Qualitative Requirements, the army quietly announced its preference for the Excalibur, regardless of its questionable capability and that of the DRDO’s Armament and Research Development Establishment in Pune, in designing a competent rifle.

The proposal for the Excalibur also gained immediate acceptance in official circles — operational efficiency be dammed — as it was in consonance with the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative of increasingly sourcing its material requirements indigenously.

Unbelievably the ARDE, with the inefficient INSAS rifle to its credit, is simultaneously developing Excalibur-2, a 7.62 x 39 mm assault rifle, as well as a Multi-Calibre Individual Weapon System.


In 2013-2014 the army had summarily rejected three prototypes of the gas-operated MCIWS, designed to fire 5.56 mm, 7.62 mm and 6.8 x 43 mm special purpose cartridge, by merely changing the barrel and magazine.

But it mysteriously appears to be back in the army’s reckoning, despite infantry officers maintaining that it was primarily an INSAS variant, with one of its barrel assemblies based on the Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 rifle.

Incidentally, the 6.8mm rounds the MCIWS is being developed to fire are rarely, if at all, used by many armies around the world. Besides, it would require the establishment of special machinery to manufacture the rounds.

The army’s decision to opt for the Excalibur is a worrisome flashback to the DRDO’s decision to develop the INSAS range of weapons in the early 1980s. This followed a ministry of defence proposal to import around 8,000 5.56 x 45 mm assault rifles for select parachute regiments, that later converted to Special Forces.

The army wanted to replace the paratroopers’s heavier licence-built 7.62mm FN-FAL self-loading rifles and Germany’s Heckler & Koch’s G41, Austria’s Steyr AUG and UK’s Royal Ordnance’s –later BAE Systems — SA80 rifle were short-listed.

All three vendors offered free transfer of technology in a contract worth around $4.5 million (about Rs 28 crore/Rs 280 million).

But soon after, the army’s requirements doubled and the Union government, facing a foreign exchange crunch, scrapped the rifle import.

The ARDE stepped in grandiosely announcing its INSAS family of weapons, which besides the assault rifle, included a light machine gun, carbine and sniper rifle. The latter three weapons were quietly dropped, presumably on grounds of technological incompetence.

It took the ARDE almost a decade before the assault rifle went into series production at the OFB’s Ishapore Rifle Factory in West Bengal.

Weapon experts at the time claimed that the completed product was an amalgam of the Kalashnikov, FN-FAL, G41 and AUG designs and not in consonance with modern engineering production techniques.

This, in turn, rendered it expensive, as producing it necessitated importing expensive machinery. At the time the INSAS assault rifle was priced at around Rs 20,000 per unit, compared to Bulgarian AK-47s, 100,000 of which were imported around 1993 for $93 or Rs 2,790 (at then prevailing exchange rates) each; or seven, tried and tested AK-47s, for the price of one unreliable INSAS rifle.

The INSAS project was delayed further by at least two to three years, after the ARDE inexplicably insisted on making an extended variant of the SS-109 NATO-standard 5.56 mm cartridge, to achieve marginally longer range, unnecessary for such a weapon.

This time consuming superfluity pushed back the programme, as it necessitated the import of specialised and expensive German machinery, besides compelling the stopgap import of millions of rounds of Israeli 5.56 mm ammunition.

Meanwhile, in a related development the Indian Army is poised to scrap its December 2010 tender to import 44,618 5.56 mm close quarter carbines, trials for which were completed in 2013.

These featured Beretta’s ARX-160, IWI’s Galil ACE Carbine and Colt’s Colt M4 but, for unstated reasons, the army has been unable to decide the winner despite repeated ‘confirmatory’ trials. No substitute appears to be in the offing.

For over five years the Indian Army has operated without a CQB carbine, a basic infantry weapon, essential to a force readying for ‘hot pursuit’ missions into neighbouring States.

Senior officers too concurred that the delayed induction of assault rifles and carbines would only compound the army’s overall alarming equipment shortages.

A former director general of infantry termed the paucity of small arms a ‘disaster’ for the army’s 360-odd infantry battalions and 106 associated counter-insurgency units like the Rashtriya Rifles and the Assam Rifles, worryingly compromising operational efficiency.


http://idrw.org/drdos-new-assault-rifle-will-be-a-disaster-for-the-army/

 

[Bhadra]

The Beleaguered Indian Soldier's Lost Combat Edge


Monday, July 20, 2015 by Indiandefense News

by Pradip R Sagar

NEW DELHI: The Pakistani Army hasn’t got any less aggressive, violating ceasefire agreements and helping terrorists infiltrate the Indian border into Kashmir, but the top brass of the Indian Army seems more obsessed with foreign tours and backing the white horse Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) as the search for creating the perfect soldier continues. Sci-fi versions of an infantryman equipped with cutting-edge hi-tech weaponry and armour in the Terminator fashion has been on the army’s wish list for over a decade. However, its ambitious project of a ‘Smart Soldier’ has not materialised even after 10 years of its announcement.

 

[Bhadra]

Cont...... from #1161

Pakistani ministers are threatening to nuke India and its Rangers keep pounding border areas with mortar, but miles-long red tape carpeting the corridors of South Block has been constantly tripping up the key project, despite steadily escalating security threats from Pakistan and China. Meanwhile, taxpayers’ money is being spent on research ‘junkets’ and wasteful projects by DRDO. Nearly 4,000 Indian soldiers have been killed in the country after the Kargil operations in 1999, which alone claimed the lives of over 500 soldiers in savage, World War-I style of infantry attacks. The total number of army deaths since the first war with Pakistan is nearly 8,000, including 6,000 deaths counter-terrorism operations in Jammu and Kashmir.

To reduce casualties drastically, the army decided to ape the western world’s soldier modernisation program. It conceived an ambitious project called 'Future Infantry Soldiers As A System' (F-INSAS) in 2005. It was announced with much fanfare by the then chief of army staff General J J Singh in 2007. Its prototype was aimed at providing the infantry soldier with lethality, mobility, survivability, sustainability, communications and situational awareness. The estimated budget of Rs 25,000 crore was earmarked for its first phase. But tenders were falling apart, and DRDO’s notorious performance and delivery record ensured that even rifles could not be given to jawans soon.

Though F-INSAS was primarily to be developed through a military-DRDO-indigenous industry partnership, senior officers like Gen JJ Singh along with other top officials of the Infantry Directorate visited countries like the US, Israel and France to assess foreign world’s respective soldier modernisation programs during its planning stage. Subsequently, officials have been making foreign visits to study available weapons in the world for the required category and they enjoyed these trips at the expense of the national exchequer.

Fundamentally, the F-INSAS program involves equipping over 305,000 infantry troops (359 battalions) and around 90,000 Rashtriya Rifles and Assam Rifles soldiers deployed on conventional, counter-insurgency operations or both with a modular, multi-caliber suite of weapons and body armour. It has over 50 items, which are required to be procured or developed indigenously.

Initially, the project, which was divided under four category, i.e. Weapons, Night sight, Equipment and Communication, was working under an independent unit in the Infantry Directorate. But, presently, the independent unit of F-INSAS was dismantled and clubbed under the infantry directorate since 2014.

Though the Infantry Directorate claims to have all items at various stages of procurement, it appears to be ‘unrealistic’ in near future, according to a senior officer of the army headquarters.

Sources indicated the army itself is primarily responsible for the delays as it is unable to formulate the basic qualitative requirements for many of the planned weapons.

“In many cases, the qualitative requirement has not even prepared. And in some cases, it has been made unrealistic. Like the primary assault rifle case, invited bidders failed to meet the requirements asked by the army, which resulted its cancellation after four years of deliberations,” said a defence ministry official.

“F-INSAS program is long overdue and needs to be fast-forwarded as security threats posed by nuclear rivals Pakistan and China are steadily escalating,” the officer further said.

And to make matter worse, a fortnight back, Indian army cancelled its four-year-old hunt for the primary assault rifle after the rifles produced by the foreign vendors were found to be unsatisfactory and expensive. The army has been battling to replace its two-decade -old indigenous INSAS rifles, which has been a ‘disappointment’. It proposed to buy 66,000 5.56mm assault rifles to replace INSAS. The service has used the INSAS 5.56mm assault rifle since the 1990s despite complaints of technical faltering. Army and para-military forces have even complained that the 5.56mm rounds were of inferior quality, causing the weapons to misfire.

In 2011, the global tender for interchangeable double barrel rifle with a 5.56 primary barrel for anti-terrorist operations and 7.62mm secondary barrel for fighting a conventional war was floated. Colt (US), Beretta (Italy), Ceska (Czech Republic), Israeli Weapon Industry and Sig Sauer (Europe) responded.

“Now, the global tender has been cancelled as all competitors failed to clear trials, army is considering an option of procuring it through ‘make in India’ policy,” an officer said.

In the coming years, Indian infantry soldiers will progressively get equipment like light-weight integrated ballistic helmets with “heads-up display” and miniaturised communication systems; portable visual, chemical and biological sensors; hand-held computer displays, GPS and video links; “smart” vests with sensors to monitor vital body signs; and of course lethal firepower with laser-guided modular weapon systems.

A senior army officer blamed the defence ministry for preferring DRDO to design weapon systems and the wasteful Ordnance Factory Board and defence PSUs to produce them. “With the pace of DRDO and deliverable experience of state PSU and Ordnance Factory Boards, the project was bound to be delayed. And ongoing tussle in the MoD between the private and public players majorly responsible for the failure of the future soldier program,”an officer said.

 

[pmaitra]

This IDRW article should explain what it means by "bulging barrels."

I also need to understand the alleged problem with cracking magazines, which were, as per reports, resolved in the early 2000s, that even if a soldier steps on it, it won't crack. Or DRDO can issue steel magazines, and the Army should be willing to accept the additional weight.

Who in the Army made these comments as claimed in the IDRW article? What is his name? Let him come forward and testify in front of the Parliament.

So, ARDE inexplicably insisted on making an extended variant of the rounds? Good for them. At least that gave the jawans the option of engaging targets from a greater distance. How on earth is this a bad thing, when even the ex COAS admired this quality of the INSAS?

Looks like a paid article.

 

[Blood+]

The Beleaguered Indian Soldier's Lost Combat Edge


Monday, July 20, 2015 by Indiandefense News

by Pradip R Sagar

NEW DELHI: The Pakistani Army hasn’t got any less aggressive, violating ceasefire agreements and helping terrorists infiltrate the Indian border into Kashmir, but the top brass of the Indian Army seems more obsessed with foreign tours and backing the white horse Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) as the search for creating the perfect soldier continues. Sci-fi versions of an infantryman equipped with cutting-edge hi-tech weaponry and armour in the Terminator fashion has been on the army’s wish list for over a decade. However, its ambitious project of a ‘Smart Soldier’ has not materialised even after 10 years of its announcement.

Hahahaha.............the writer doesn't even know the difference between an INSAS and a micro tavor!!The chest rig,he points as a 20 kg BPJ is just a tactical webbing vest,for lugging the ammo pouches!!And the body armor weighs around 12 kg,not nearly as much as 20 kg.The whole thing is nothing more than a fabricated paid propaganda piece rather than a genuinely researched article.And you claim yourself to be a retired officer in the Indian Army,then how did these inconsistencies got over-sighted by you I wonder.

 

[Blood+]

DRDO’s new assault rifle will be a disaster for the army




The Indian Army’s recent decision to induct an indigenously developed assault rifle follows yet another instance of its failure to import one, after formulating unrealistic Qualitative Requirements for a weapon system that is simply non-existent. On June 15, the army scrapped its December 2011 tender to procure 66,000 multi-calibre assault rifles, opting instead for the Excalibur assault rifle, designed by the Defence Research and Development Organisation.

The Excalibur is unlikely to emerge by 2017-2018 as an enchanted weapon system. For, once developed, it will merely be an upgraded variant of the DRDO’s 5.56 x 45 mm Indian Small Arms System assault rifle, which the army has rejected.

The army vetoed the INSAS rifle, over a decade under development, in 2010, on grounds of it being ‘operationally inadequate,’ some 15 years after reluctantly inducting it into service in the mid-1990s.

Its veto was centered round the rifles bulging barrels, frequent breakdown of moving parts and cracks in its polycarbonate magazine, whilst employed in extreme temperatures in Kashmir and Rajasthan, and all-round inefficiency.

Thereafter, army headquarters declined to repose faith in the DRDO’s ability to design a suitable assault rifle, and instead, drafted improbable Qualitative Requirements to import a multi-calibre assault rifle.

These required the rifles to weigh less than 3 kg and be capable of switching from 5.56 x 45mm to 7.62 x 39mm calibre, by merely changing their barrel and magazine. They were also required to fire 600 rounds per minute to a minimum distance of 200 metres.

After nearly three years of technical evaluation, field trials featuring four competitors were conducted at Bakloh cantonment, near Dalhousie in Himachal Pradesh, and Hoshairpur in Punjab, which concluded late last year.

Participants included Beretta’s ARX-160 (Italy), Colt Combat Rifle (the US), CA 805 BREN (the Czech republic) and Israel Weapon Industries (IWI) ACE1 model.

All four manufacturers failed to meet the army’s whimsical Qualitative Requirements, as other than Beretta’s ARX-160, currently in service with the Egyptian and Italian armies and the Mexican federal police, the three other rifles were prototypes.

These had been configured hastily for the lucrative Indian tender, worth an estimated $3 billion to $4 billion (about Rs 18,900 crores/Rs 189 billion to Rs 25,200 crore/Rs 252 billion) and consequently were almost certain to fail in trials.

The deal included a technology transfer to the Ordnance Factory Board to licence build the shortlisted weapon system to meet the army’s long-delayed requirement for over 220,000 to 250,000 assault rifles. Eventually, the rifles were also to equip the paramilitaries and special state police units.

At least three successive army chiefs reiterated 2010 onwards, that inducting the assault rifle was their ‘top priority’ and persisted with the import option. This was despite the continuing development of Excalibur, which the army ignored.

But faced with the stark reality of no assault rifle meeting its over ambitious Qualitative Requirements, the army quietly announced its preference for the Excalibur, regardless of its questionable capability and that of the DRDO’s Armament and Research Development Establishment in Pune, in designing a competent rifle.

The proposal for the Excalibur also gained immediate acceptance in official circles — operational efficiency be dammed — as it was in consonance with the government’s ‘Make in India’ initiative of increasingly sourcing its material requirements indigenously.

Unbelievably the ARDE, with the inefficient INSAS rifle to its credit, is simultaneously developing Excalibur-2, a 7.62 x 39 mm assault rifle, as well as a Multi-Calibre Individual Weapon System.


In 2013-2014 the army had summarily rejected three prototypes of the gas-operated MCIWS, designed to fire 5.56 mm, 7.62 mm and 6.8 x 43 mm special purpose cartridge, by merely changing the barrel and magazine.

But it mysteriously appears to be back in the army’s reckoning, despite infantry officers maintaining that it was primarily an INSAS variant, with one of its barrel assemblies based on the Russian Kalashnikov AK-47 rifle.

Incidentally, the 6.8mm rounds the MCIWS is being developed to fire are rarely, if at all, used by many armies around the world. Besides, it would require the establishment of special machinery to manufacture the rounds.

The army’s decision to opt for the Excalibur is a worrisome flashback to the DRDO’s decision to develop the INSAS range of weapons in the early 1980s. This followed a ministry of defence proposal to import around 8,000 5.56 x 45 mm assault rifles for select parachute regiments, that later converted to Special Forces.

The army wanted to replace the paratroopers’s heavier licence-built 7.62mm FN-FAL self-loading rifles and Germany’s Heckler & Koch’s G41, Austria’s Steyr AUG and UK’s Royal Ordnance’s –later BAE Systems — SA80 rifle were short-listed.

All three vendors offered free transfer of technology in a contract worth around $4.5 million (about Rs 28 crore/Rs 280 million).

But soon after, the army’s requirements doubled and the Union government, facing a foreign exchange crunch, scrapped the rifle import.

The ARDE stepped in grandiosely announcing its INSAS family of weapons, which besides the assault rifle, included a light machine gun, carbine and sniper rifle. The latter three weapons were quietly dropped, presumably on grounds of technological incompetence.

It took the ARDE almost a decade before the assault rifle went into series production at the OFB’s Ishapore Rifle Factory in West Bengal.

Weapon experts at the time claimed that the completed product was an amalgam of the Kalashnikov, FN-FAL, G41 and AUG designs and not in consonance with modern engineering production techniques.

This, in turn, rendered it expensive, as producing it necessitated importing expensive machinery. At the time the INSAS assault rifle was priced at around Rs 20,000 per unit, compared to Bulgarian AK-47s, 100,000 of which were imported around 1993 for $93 or Rs 2,790 (at then prevailing exchange rates) each; or seven, tried and tested AK-47s, for the price of one unreliable INSAS rifle.

The INSAS project was delayed further by at least two to three years, after the ARDE inexplicably insisted on making an extended variant of the SS-109 NATO-standard 5.56 mm cartridge, to achieve marginally longer range, unnecessary for such a weapon.

This time consuming superfluity pushed back the programme, as it necessitated the import of specialised and expensive German machinery, besides compelling the stopgap import of millions of rounds of Israeli 5.56 mm ammunition.

Meanwhile, in a related development the Indian Army is poised to scrap its December 2010 tender to import 44,618 5.56 mm close quarter carbines, trials for which were completed in 2013.

These featured Beretta’s ARX-160, IWI’s Galil ACE Carbine and Colt’s Colt M4 but, for unstated reasons, the army has been unable to decide the winner despite repeated ‘confirmatory’ trials. No substitute appears to be in the offing.

For over five years the Indian Army has operated without a CQB carbine, a basic infantry weapon, essential to a force readying for ‘hot pursuit’ missions into neighbouring States.

Senior officers too concurred that the delayed induction of assault rifles and carbines would only compound the army’s overall alarming equipment shortages.

A former director general of infantry termed the paucity of small arms a ‘disaster’ for the army’s 360-odd infantry battalions and 106 associated counter-insurgency units like the Rashtriya Rifles and the Assam Rifles, worryingly compromising operational efficiency.


http://idrw.org/drdos-new-assault-rifle-will-be-a-disaster-for-the-army/

Dude,please stop posting these sort of cheap paid propaganda shiit.Garbage like this do not deserve to be posted on a forum like this one.

 

[ghost]

Dude,please stop posting these sort of cheap paid propaganda shiit.Garbage like this do not deserve to be posted on a forum like this one.

No harm in presenting every type of perspective out there ,then be it negative.People are free to analyze it.I think generalizing every negative comment on drdo as paid propaganda should be avoided .

 

[Blood+]

No harm in presenting every type of perspective out there ,then be it negative.People are free to analyze it.I think generalizing every negative comment on drdo as paid propaganda should be avoided .

Of course,but just look at that piece for a few sec.I've no problem with criticizing when it's due and just but this article............I just don't know what to say about this.

 

[cobra commando]

This IDRW article should explain what it means by "bulging barrels."

I also need to understand the alleged problem with cracking magazines, which were, as per reports, resolved in the early 2000s, that even if a soldier steps on it, it won't crack. Or DRDO can issue steel magazines, and the Army should be willing to accept the additional weight.

Who in the Army made these comments as claimed in the IDRW article? What is his name? Let him come forward and testify in front of the Parliament.

So, ARDE inexplicably insisted on making an extended variant of the rounds? Good for them. At least that gave the jawans the option of engaging targets from a greater distance. How on earth is this a bad thing, when even the ex COAS admired this quality of the INSAS?

Looks like a paid article.

Written by Rahul Bedi, the writer is the India Correspondent for Jane's Defence Weekly, UK.

 

[ghost]

Of course,but just look at that piece for a few sec.I've no problem with criticizing when it's due and just but this article............I just don't know what to say about this.

The article was related to new rifles so posted it,by this I did not meant to endorse it ,else I would have made my comments.But still to judge it right or wrong is at reader discretion , I believe each reader has the right to go through the article before making his or her mind on it.

I had already made my personal opinion on it very clear. I would like Indian army to adopt MCIWS and if it does not meet their requirement then work with ARDE to make it meet their requirement and then mass produce it probably with the help of some Indian private manufacturer.

Insas EXCALIBUR

.

 

[Hari Sud]

There is nothing in the above post #1160, which is new. It is old story amplified to make it new. This reporter in Rediff picked on everything which is known for the last ten years to foul mouth a working rifle in the Indian Army.

Now the above reporter together with arms merchants have started to foul mouth Army's GSQR requirements. If the foreign arms suppliers were so smart then why did they participate in the tender. They willingly brought their prototypes which were ten years away from full development to get it tested under Indian conditions they failed. Now they are concentrating on saying bad GSQR requirements.

Somebody has to prove that Excalibur rifle is that bad as many arms merchant who failed the tests, have begun to say. Outside fit and finish looks are deceptive. That should not be the criteria to accept and reject the local product. It is the critical aspect of reliability, range and lethality etc. which are more important. The sexy looking with great fit and finish have failed the tests.

In my opinion stop this stupid propaganda against INSAS rifle. A few jams and oil spray aside, this rifle withstood the Kargil war, also day after day LOC firings and daily firing practices at all Army training schools for new recruits and war games. Believe me most rifles fail under one or the other circumstances. M-16 and AK-47 are no exception to jams, hence Indian made INSAS should not be singled out.

 

[Bhadra]

This IDRW article should explain what it means by "bulging barrels."

If you do not what bulging of barrels is then do not comment,,, it is rudimentary and every one knows it..

I also need to understand the alleged problem with cracking magazines, which were, as per reports, resolved in the early 2000s, that even if a soldier steps on it, it won't crack. Or DRDO can issue steel magazines, and the Army should be willing to accept the additional weight.

Who in the Army made these comments as claimed in the IDRW article? What is his name? Let him come forward and testify in front of the Parliament.

So, ARDE inexplicably insisted on making an extended variant of the rounds? Good for them. At least that gave the jawans the option of engaging targets from a greater distance. How on earth is this a bad thing, when even the ex COAS admired this quality of the INSAS?

Looks like a paid article.

Now the this Hitler wants court martial powers to set right Army officers !! Height of ... heights..

 

[Bhadra]

There is nothing in the above post #1160, which is new. It is old story amplified to make it new. This reporter in Rediff picked on everything which is known for the last ten years to foul mouth a working rifle in the Indian Army.

Now the above reporter together with arms merchants have started to foul mouth Army's GSQR requirements. If the foreign arms suppliers were so smart then why did they participate in the tender. They willingly brought their prototypes which were ten years away from full development to get it tested under Indian conditions they failed. Now they are concentrating on saying bad GSQR requirements.

Somebody has to prove that Excalibur rifle is that bad as many arms merchant who failed the tests, have begun to say. Outside fit and finish looks are deceptive. That should not be the criteria to accept and reject the local product. It is the critical aspect of reliability, range and lethality etc. which are more important. The sexy looking with great fit and finish have failed the tests.

In my opinion stop this stupid propaganda against INSAS rifle. A few jams and oil spray aside, this rifle withstood the Kargil war, also day after day LOC firings and daily firing practices at all Army training schools for new recruits and war games. Believe me most rifles fail under one or the other circumstances. M-16 and AK-47 are no exception to jams, hence Indian made INSAS should not be singled out.

Key strokes used :

reporter together with arms merchants
foul mouth a working rifle
stupid propaganda against INSAS rifle
M-16 and AK-47 are no exception to jams

.... Ha Ha Ha ...

Conclusion : Hence INSAS is good...

@Hari Sud -- you should have written Plato's Dialectics...

 

[Hari Sud]

Key strokes used :

reporter together with arms merchants
foul mouth a working rifle
stupid propaganda against INSAS rifle
M-16 and AK-47 are no exception to jams

.... Ha Ha Ha ...

Conclusion : Hence INSAS is good...

@Hari Sud -- you should have written Plato's Dialectics...

You are worst than Rahul Bedi who wrote the original piece. If you are not aware, he is an employee of "Janes". At least Rahul Bedi does not hide his identity.

Who are you?

Who is paying you?

I watch carefully your posts and time you posted. That tells me where you are hiding and who could be paying you. You definitely are not in India. That word Plato is dead give away.

Your posts have been carefully debated and replied by the moderator and others. You do not have the brains to understand that all debates whether in cyberspace or otherwise end when a certain conclusion is reached. You do not have brains to understand that, do you have brains?

Prove it!

 

[Shaitan]

Punjab cops turn Ghatak, set to dump WW-II guns

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...t-to-dump-WW-II-guns/articleshow/48091293.cms

As part of its modernization drive, the Punjab police are now set to dismantle more than 6,000 old weapons as their spare parts are no longer available or the weapon itself is no longer manufactured. These arms include 668 sten guns and 2,910 .38 bore revolvers, both of which are close-quarter combat (CQB) weapons.

Besides, 2,000 musket rifles that were used in revolts in India including 1857 will also be retired. These rifles are known for their signature style of single shot firing and would load only one muzzle, known as barood, at a time. These had obviously not been used for years.


The state police have now sent a proposal to the Union home ministry to acquire assault rifles Ghatak and Excalibur, both of which were recently designed by Defence Research Development Organisation at Pune. Punjab will become the first state in the country to acquire these weapons that were displayed for the first time in May this year at Rifle Factory Ishapore (RFI) in Kolkata.

While Ghatak, with a 7.62mm size of ammunition, is an advanced version of an AK-47 rifle, the Excalibur is an improved version of the common INSAS rifle and fires 5.56mm ammunition.

"I had personally gone to Ishapore to train in the new weaponry. They will be a cheaper alternative to the Russian AK-47s and AK-56s. This will help us save on import costs," said Rakesh Chandra, Punjab police inspector general (commando), Bahadurgarh, which houses reserve ammunition.

 

[pmaitra]

If you do not what bulging of barrels is then do not comment,,, it is rudimentary and every one knows it..




Now the this Hitler wants court martial powers to set right Army officers !! Height of ... heights..

Everyone knows it, but you don't know it. That is why you have to write a post without contributing any information.



I can also say, if you have never fired a rifle, do not comment.

Ok, I'll give you a second chance. Try answering my question.

This IDRW article should explain what it means by "bulging barrels."

 

[pmaitra]

Written by Rahul Bedi, the writer is the India Correspondent for Jane's Defence Weekly, UK.

Thanks for the excellent piece of information.